Sven
Senior Member
if your name is Sean Penn... its all good.
California: Land of the Trapped Soul
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kungfuhippie
Member
Sven,
I'm sorry if Mr. Penn is attracting any of Alphazulu6's yellow rain up in Los Gatos. Love that part of the state.
I'm sorry if Mr. Penn is attracting any of Alphazulu6's yellow rain up in Los Gatos. Love that part of the state.
Careful, that is actualy illegal. If you purchase a firearm with intent to sell it in CA later it is commiting a crime. If however you purchase a firearm for yourself and after traveling and legaly registering it with CA decide you no longer want it, it is legal.
Purchasing a firearm offlist for the purpose of selling it in CA and circumventing the list is a crime, and encouraging someone else to do it makes you an accomplice or at least involved in conspiring to commit the crime. That crime probably would take away your RKBA. Of course nobody would know that was your intent UNLESS you mentioned it, or talked about it on public forums...
As for gun laws, they are numerous, people here simplify them a bit too much. A minor misdemeanor violation will at bare minimum take away your RKBA for 10 years, even if its because you are 20 feet outside proper zoning for something. In fact per CA law, any violation within certain sections involving weapons, even if they result in misdemeanor violations can permanently ban you from firearm ownership. Obviously a felony would be a sure thing. Other non felony misdemeanors also are bans. For example, regular misdemeanor assault or battery. So if you get in a fight with someone, no more guns for you. Punch me because I make sexual suggestions to your wife in front of you and tell you off? Battery, no more guns for you. Ball your fist up and make a threating motion? Assault. No more guns for you. To legaly own firearms you better be willing to take anything someone can verbaly throw at you and have no line that can be crossed.
Concealed carry is basicly limited to a few counties, most places with the jobs and population density do not allow it at all, and many out in the middle of nowhere don't allow it either. Take Imperial Country which is a low pop desert region bordering Mexico, according to information online nobody can get licenses renewed there, new ones are turned down, and new sherriff does not like CCW and that is about as rural as you can get.
If a county borders the ocean its pretty much a no no, Orange country seems to be a rare populated exception, but as soon as a new sheriff comes to power that should go the normal route.
Handguns have to be on list to be purchased, and have lots of limitations. Some just added this year. Mag disconnects, load indicator (for new things added, old things can exist unless they fall from the list), 10 rounds or less and on approved list. Long guns have to not be on the bad list, as well as not have a combination of bad "assault" features that might make your gun attack you or someone else.
Shooting in many counties is heavily restricted even if generaly acceptable per state regs. When people mention National Forest and BLM land they are simplifying. They are still subject to county ordinances, some of which ban shooting in them altogether, others that limit legal shooting to a few limited spots. Being caught elsewhere even within them will at minimum take away your RKBA for 10 years, and otherwise get you branded a felon.
Going in a vehicle, or even on a vehicle or on a public road (in or outside a vehicle) with a loaded firearm is at all time illegal. Doing so yourself or being the driver of a vehicle in which someone else does this will revoke your RKBA.
National parks, state parks, memorials and similar places or firearm free zones, even if you are going camping, firearms are NOT allowed. So a large portion of the wilderness, and usualy most of the best wilderness locations are off limits to even firearm possession for self defense. Most of the National Forest land is the stuff that was not good enough to be a state park, like the leftovers with nothing particularly special, at least in SO Cal.
However CA is a big place, with some of the most diverse landscape in the country. There is warm beaches, high mountain peaks, deserts and it is not flat and boring like large parts of the US. Most of the people are concentrated near the coasts, and many people respectful of others often get away with practices they are not punished for (because they get lucky) and then come mention it like it is state policy to allow such practices. Half truths born out of half information like "it is okay in BLM or NF land" can get you in serious trouble, be careful.
kungfuhippie
Member
Zoogster, you forgot that a handgun can only be transported to certain places; home, gun shop, range, gun smith, another person's home. Legally you're not allowed to stop for gas or go to the drive-thru. No pistols for trunk guns. Loaded magazines constitute a loaded firearm. "Assault weapons" if you were lucky enough to register one before the ban, have bigger restrictions that pistols.
"Individuals and businesses with an inventory of assault weapons exceeding a certain quantity are subject to annual inspection by the California Department of Justice for security, safe storage and state government inventory reconciliation purposes."
"Individuals and businesses with an inventory of assault weapons exceeding a certain quantity are subject to annual inspection by the California Department of Justice for security, safe storage and state government inventory reconciliation purposes."
BrennanKG
Member
This was always one of the more frustrating parts of the concealed carry issue in CA for me: the reflection of the serve/master dichotomy. In CA, even in counties which are defacto Shall NOT Issue, anti-gun celebrities (such as the Cow) and anti-RKBA politicians (like Feinstein) have access to CHL for themselves and/or their bodyguards, yet the average law-abiding citizen does not.
I love CA. Both my wife, daughter, and I are natives and there is much we miss. That said, there are things we don't miss.
Additionally, the whole, "if you want your 2nd Am rights you should just pick up and leave" attitude that gets tossed around is ridiculous. People, especially those with families and careers are generally not free to just pick up and leave.
Let's remember that we're all Americans, and that we should encourage folks in CA to fight against the continued attrition of their 2nd Amendment, not bash them for trying to live their lives where they choose.
Later,
B.
romma
Member
We are trying desperately to send them ALL your way...
glockman19
Member
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Zoogster,
Nothing I said was or could be construed as illegal. I'm always on the lookout for certain guns. I'm also happy to help out a fellow gun owner should they have a gun they need to get rid of for cash.
Thanks for the concern but I already have a mother & a wife. and If I really wanted one I could have a relative in another state buy it and legally gift it to me.
MudCamper
Member
Zoogster, I assume you are at least partially refering to my sig in regards to your comments about restrictions in NF and BLM land. I also assume that you must be a SoCAl resident. I must admit, the furthest south I've gone shooting is in Sierra NF. I do know that in Mednocino, Shasta-Trinity, Klamath, and Modoc NFs it's OK to carry and shoot. I can't speak for SoCal. So, yes, definately call a local ranger station to be sure of any local restrictions.
This is taken from BLM information. Keep in mind BLM land as well as NF are still subject to county rules and regulations, and of course still subject to CA laws. So when they say something is okay, it means okay with them, but still must be in compliance with more restrictive rules and laws.
On BLM land that is zoned as acceptable for shooting:
"Riverside County - No shooting within 300 yards of roads, campgrounds or occupied dwellings. No shooting 1/2 hour after sunset or before sunrise.
San Bernardino County: - County has designated some areas for shotgun use only; other areas are closed to shooting except for legal hunting.
Kern and Inyo Counties: Open to shooting on BLM managed lands.
Imperial County: No shooting within 300 yards of roads or campgrounds. No shooting 1/2 hour after sunset or before sunrise.
San Diego County: Open to shooting on BLM managed lands. Possession or discharge of steel core armor piercing ammunition is illegal. No shooting in unincorporated areas.
Orange and Los Angeles Counties: Closed to all shooting on public (BLM) lands."
Now for National forest land it gets even worse. Most National forests in Southern CA do no permit shooting except in specific locations, many of which have been closed in recent years. Hunting is usualy allowed, however that requires valid hunting licenses and discharge of a firearm is only allowed in pursuit of game. If you do not have a valid and current hunting license, simply using hunting as your excuse is grounds for loss of your gun rights.
Also keep in mind things like Handgun laws require you to be going to a legal destination for use of the firearm. Well unless you purchase an Adventure Pass your vehicle is not legaly allowed to stop or park in the National Forest in Southern CA. This could be used to imply you are in violation of the laws pertaining to transport of handguns.
Also there is many tricky parts of legislation that can be applied even when the obvious intent of them is different.
For example it is illegal to use a flashlight in the forest while in the possession of a firearm if it is over 3 volts! This means if it takes more than two 1.5 volt batteries it would be illegal to use it while in the possession of a firearm:
"It is unlawful for any person, or one or more persons, to throw or
cast the rays of any spotlight, headlight, or other artificial light
on any highway or in any field, woodland, or forest where game
mammals, fur-bearing mammals, or nongame mammals are commonly found,
or upon any game mammal, fur-bearing mammal, or nongame mammal, while
having in his possession or under his control any firearm or weapon
with which such mammal could be killed, even though the mammal is not
killed, injured, shot at, or otherwise pursued."
"The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following:
(a) To the use of a hand held flashlight no larger, nor emitting
more light, than a two-cell, three-volt flashlight, provided such
light is not affixed in any way to a weapon, or to the use of a lamp
or lantern which does not cast a directional beam of light."
This applies all the time, not just while hunting. It was created with the intention of stopping the use of lights while hunting, but the legal code is valid at any time, regardless of your current activities. So if you have a firearm or sidearm and use a flashlight over 3 volts, you are in violation. I bet you never expected that? So if approached by a ranger and you use a flashlight while in possession of a firearm you can be arrested. Sitting at your campfire in the woods, use the light to see who is approaching? Have a handgun on you? You broke the law. Walk out to use the restroom in the woods with a firearm and a flashlight, broke the law (unless under 3 volts.)
Obviously most people won't be held to such laws, but it is officer's discretion. If for some reason he does not like you, then you can be found in violation.
There is many similar examples that allow for extremely wide discretion for anyone in possession of a firearm to be found guilty one of many numerous laws. The firearm laws are so numerous, the simple presence of a firearm can turn mundane things into a crime even if the firearm is legaly possessed in a legal location.
As I said many people can and do many things in remote/rural locations without getting into trouble, especialy if they use common sense and are responsible. That does not mean even with good intentions they are not in violation of laws that can revoke gun rights or thier freedom. They may research shooting someplace, look at BLM rules, think it is okay, and be found in violation of ordinances, fish and game codes, penal codes, vehicle codes etc. Just because possession of a firearm, or legal shooting in a location is okay with one agency does not mean it or specific activites are not in violation of the regulations of another agency. So researching one agency and thier rules because you assume it is thier land you will be using does not mean you will have found all the restrictions of regulations pertaining to use.
An imaginative officer or prosecutor can usualy find something illegal without making anything up if they want with most situations involving firearm use in CA. There is enough small regulations and grey areas to give wide discretion.
Friend, I am a member of calguns.net and a long time resident of the Golden State with an acute interest in firearms and firearms law here.
Yes, there are some oddball "technicalities" like a business owner being able to carry at his place of business or LEO exceptions. Why muddy the water when those don't apply to 99.9% of the people who live in CA? This person (the OP) doesn't appear to know the basics, let alone the oddball exceptions, and I am trying to help by offering the big picture, and hopefully save him getting himself in trouble accidentally thru ignorance. I don't know if your "idiot" remark was just a sig line, or if it was directed at me... if the former, you should take into account that some people will take it as directed at them, whether warranted or not.
I stand by my statement: "A handgun is impractical for self-defense away from home in CA unless you have a CCW permit" because that is reality for 99.9% of people who live in this state. If you are not a business owner, or an LEO, or a CCW holder, a handgun in CA has very limited utility in a defensive capacity outside the home.
PressCheck
Member
I carry every day, but I'm one of the "Anointed" ones.
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