Campus Insecurity Finally Reacts to the VT Attack

[Lonestar49]

Perfect Safety Idea For College Campus And

...

It was the perfect answer to College Campus Safety, for just the problems of late and, may well be, the answer to many other facility's that seem to be targets of nut balls, with guns, that have no fear of confrontation, under our vast protections laws, that otherwise, refute the logic of: fight fire with fire.

It was a cartoon in my paper that had a picture, only, of:

A handgun in a glass case, hanging on the wall, in a hallway with the wording under it -

~ Break in Case of Emergency ~


Works for me..



LS

 

[azredhawk44]

IF CONFRONTED BY A THREATENING PERSON:
Leave the area and get out of harm’s way.
Call Campus Safety and/or 9-911 immediately.

I worked campus security when I was in college, in the state of Washington. We used to have a phone system that required dialing "9" for an outside line prior to dialing 911... turns out that this was illegal. Dialing just "911" from inside campus pushed the call to campus security rather than real law enforcement and emergency services.

We had to have the telecom guys re-work the phone system so that a true "911" went out to the real 911 system. Changed the phone system so that campus security no longer received 911 (you called 3311 instead), and we had a computer system that alerted security, with a mapped location, of every 911 call that went out from campus.

Perhaps VT would benefit from a similar situation?

 

[DogBonz]

What????

NO "duck and cover"???

Now, where is Timmy the Turtle when we need him?

 

[Geno]

Here's the part that no one has yet observed...recall the attacks on this kid...the thugs entered his dorm...where the Hades was this student to go? Then, the gang left campus for 20 minutes and returned??? Why did insecurity not call 9-911 until the 2nd beating?! Why did it take the city police nearly 20 minutes to arrive?!?!?!

So many questions...so many excuses...so many cover-ups. Sniff! Sniff!! Something smells like...like...the farm. Okay...who brought in the bulls?! I'm seeing bull$#^% all over this policy!

 

[Prince Yamato]

Acknowledge the person’s feelings.
Be respectful and empowering.
Be reassuring and point out choices.

I'll save the mods the trouble...

[Deleted for inapproriate content by Prince Yamato]

 

[whited]

.

My reactions and advice to you are not high road and involve profanity
and breaking the law.

 

[Geno]

Might be time to saddle up the horse and ride out of Dodge into the sunset...fade to music.

 

[obxned]

IF CONFRONTED BY A THREATENING PERSON:
Scream loudly and run away.

IF UNABLE TO LEAVE THE AREA:
Call 911.
Bleed and die.

 

[Risasi]

Number one, I'm never unarmed. It's very rare anymore I have to go into a location that weapons aren't permitted, but even when I do, I am still armed. If nothing else with my brain. Also I don't go into a place I don't know how to get out of. Just don't do it.
Now regarding "going unarmed"; think stealth. The element of surprise is very handy. Remember it take 2/10's of a second for our brains to register what we see before we even start to react. If you are in a life threatening situation strike first.

One thing I might suggest is finding a couple good pens. There is one I have a great affinity for, the Rotring. If I feel threatened for my life and a perp is within 8 ft of me he is dead. Several stabs to the neck, kidneys, inner thigh are all good to go. He may get me too if armed w/ a gun or knife, but you better believe I'm taking him with me. It's about resolve. Good situational awareness will help you identify a threat before you are in a bad situation.

Anyway, there is no reason to be unarmed. There are many, many weapons available that will not even raise an eyebrow.

 

[torpid]

I can't believe they left out hugging!

 

[beretta9]

Make false statements or promises.

A person is about to kill me and I am not supposed to lie to him? I just wonder what that (in)security director would actually do if he was in dangerous situation? That is after soiling his pants, puking up his lunch, and getting his crying and blubbering under control?

 

[Scanr]

What I would like to see:

• Draw down on the large center mass and fire till the threat is neutralized. *Optionally reload and fire again.*

 

[Pilgrim]

Actually, someone beat me to speaking with him...one of my graduate students. This student was the director of student housing. When this student witnessed the attack that I referenced in the opening post, she took the information to Dean of Student Affairs. This students was promptly fired for making waves!

Incidents like this need to be made known to the parents of the students who attend your college. They have the power of the purse strings to change bureaucratic thinking.

Pilgrim

 

[brickeyee]

"Perhaps VT would benefit from a similar situation?"

The Hokie cops are an armed police force deputized by the state police.
The only other police force with direct jurisdiction on campus is the state police.
VT is a land grant university and is not legally in any city, town, or county.
It is only be signed agreements that the locals can even come onto the campus.

 

[Grey54956]

What?

Nowhere on the list of security instructions is "Put two hot ones in the 10 ring."

Looks like it will need a re-write.

 

[willbrink]

Doc, amazing list here for creating a country of sheep and victims.

(1) do you mind if I pass this list around to people?

(2) What topic do you teach? I would think as a proff you could write a position paper, or contact others in the area and co author something, get their input, etc, on how to address this ridiculous list

(3) Are you a member of the Firearmsregprof list run by professor Volokh at the UCLA law school? It's a discussion list for scholars specializing in firearms and is well read by attorneys, scholars, historians, and interested lay people (yours truly included) regarding legal/historical/constitutional aspects of firearms. If interested, you can sign up to the list below:

http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/firearmsregprof

 

[Caimlas]

You mean to tell me I'd be required by 'policy' to bend over, take it, enjoy it, and then thank him for it, and not be angry, upset, or filled with righteous vitriol? I don't think so.

The most enraging thing is that their 'security' is just a show of force, as ineffectual as UN "peacekeepers". How can someone (probably armed with a firearm) just look on as a bunch of thugs repeatedly beats a person within an inch of their life? That kind of behavior is as bad as grand theft or assault itself, in my opinion, and should be prosecutable, at least to a lesser degree than the act itself. They're as guilty as the thugs who didn't throw any punches, but were there for 'support'.

 

[E-4forever]

Crap this like this would not have been tolerated at VMI. He would have dead it in no time there.

Tech has a huge ROTC Battalion that already has to got to class in uniform everyday. Maybe they should go to class with their k-pot, body armor, M16 and full battle load of ammo. Then any would be just stupid to do anything like this again. 300+ soldiers roaming the campus fully armed. And they would take care of business.

Plus it would be good training for them when they graduate and go to Iraq.

 

[Geno]

willbrinnk:

Please do share it. I instruct Graduate Education courses, predominantly research and educational leadership. Thank-you for the link to Firearmsregprof. I now have it bookmarked.

The odd part of all of this is that the students are all strongly pro-firearm! All it takes at a private school is for one fool with an inability to extract their cranium from their posterior to lock down the remainder of the personnel.

Doc2005

 

[willbrink]

One thought I had. A simple question for the head of security: "would any of those recommendations they sent you have altered the outcome of the VT shootings even by one death?" The answer is no. Ask them that, and they will have no where to run. It's a simple question. but it exposes them and their recommendations for what they are; designed to make people feel safe vs BE safe. Here you have an event that is followed by recommendations that would have no effects on the outcome of the very event that prompted the recommendations.

It's nice to see not all proffs fail to "get it." From the list I recommended to you Professor Joseph Olson, Hamline University School of Law, wrote to the list:

"A terrible tragedy. I know, I teach on college campus.

Once he starts to act, the only thing that can stop a single, psychotic killer who is willing to die is the rapid delivery of counter fire by whoever is near. Cop, civilian, it doesn't matter who or their job status. The more people who are nearby and capable of delivering return fire, the fewer and less serious the injuries (there's criminological data on this).

Virginia Tech. is a "gun free" zone guaranteeing that the psychotic killer had the only gun. He came prepared. He waited until there were no police in sight and then commenced his murderous acts certain that he would encounter no effective resistance. And , he didn't.

Twenty-one innocent dead because there was no one capable of fighting back. All they could do was cower or run."

 

[jeepmor]

Readers digest version

IF CONFRONTED BY A THREATENING PERSON:Get away or be a victim.
IF UNABLE TO LEAVE THE AREA: Be a victim.
DON’T: Defend yourself....be a victim, it's better for campus insurance premiums.


Unable to leave...hmmm. You mean if the door is chained shut!!!! Or maybe they mean, the classroom only has one exit!!!!!

This is a scenario where I might consider getting small pocket gun and say damn the consequences. You'd be alive to debate your decision at least. Unless you have hot co eds rubbing up and down your leg all the time (you should be so lucky ), a decent pocket holster and a kel-tec or equivalent would never be noticed.

If it is one of those turning points in your life/career that makes the decision for you to leave, please make a point of stating as such in your resignation letter....and send it to your representatives of the state and particularly the administration responsible for not protecting you when they took your right to protect yourself away from you for their convenience and insurance premiums.

 

[JLStorm]

First off I would really like to believe this is a joke. Secondly, I hope someone raises hell at VTech for insulting the intelligence of anyone who reads this.

I was wondering what their policy is on tasers? I was taking a course taught by an member of the las vegas PD who trains with tasers and has been shot 7 times with them. He says it still amazes him at how much faster they drop a person than a bullet. If it were me, I would still rather have a gun, but if a taser isnt violating policy it may not be a bad idea either.

 

[Run&Shoot]

The only rationale education administrators understand is law suit liability, then political correctness. If they believe they are at more liability risk to have students defend themselves then that is how they form their policy. That is usually due to some perception that law abiding students will grumble about the policy but not go to court over it. On the other hand, they are afraid a violent person has nothing else to lose and may very well take them to court for not controlling their students and letting them "over react" in self defense.

They will only change their policy when someone sues the daylights at them for putting them at such grave risk by not having an effective protection policy. Notice that the organization is called Campus Security and not Campus Protection. The notion of "security" often devolves in a bureaucracy to a role of accounting for individuals and things, and keeping law abiding individuals and groups in their proper place. it often has nothing to do with responding, and certainly not letting others respond, to violence. That could be dangerous!

If nobody sues the college, or otherwise illustrates the legal and financial risk they are digging for themselves, then you just have to accept the situation. Either learn to be a good victim, or deliberately ignore their policy and do whatever you need to do to ensure your own safety knowing you will get no help whatsoever from the campus, and a delayed response from the city.

In any case, it is a pathetic example for our young adults before they go out into the work a day world and most of them becoming heads of their own household.

 

[Gnarkill]

.

 

[imprezagm4]

My Campus was "Locked Down" today...

Gas Station about 1/4 mile away was robbed at gunpoint... I go to school at the Central Oregon Community College campus, but there is also an OSU Cascades Campus building (where I work). Get this though... I had no idea there was even an issue until after the school was deemed safe and they posted it on the homepage, apparently, even though the OSU building is part of the campus there was no communication between the COCC campus and the OSU campus, even though they are all of 20 yards apart!!!... No email, no phone call, nothing... my goodness.

That was my warning to be on alert... Good to see they are concerned about student safety.

Don't worry though, there are no guns allowed on campus so the armed robber never could have come up here... I know this because my supervisor sent this email out.

This information is in the General Procedures/Policy Manual:



G-8-0 FIREARMS

No firearms, explosives, ammunition, or fireworks of any kind are permitted to be carried or used on campus except by authorized civil authorities in the discharge of their duties.

In other words, no weapons on campus.



Thank you,

Rob

541 xxx-xxxx



Safety is Paramount!

Almost a year until I turn 21 too So I couldn't have been carrying anyhow.