CraigC
Sixgun Nut
25yrs ago I took them apart and put them back together enough to do it in the dark but that was also the last time I did it. 
Can a .32-40 1894 be bored out to .38-55 and still function?
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sugarmaker
Member
38-55 elevator on left, 30wcf on right, serials are 929xxx and 128xxxx on right. There is a subtle but visible difference. 3855 has a larger nose needing to fit in the same size hole
sugarmaker
Member
Is the problem happening with the action fully open or is the locking lug not clearing the back of the bolt just before the action locks up?
OP
OP
1KPerDay
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It happens as you open the action fully, just before full lever extension. If you have the muzzle elevated and sometimes with the muzzle level. If you point the muzzle down it works properly.
Jim Watson
Member
My 1885 Single Shot ("Highwall") was rebored from .32-40 to .38-55. Rim and head diameter are the same or so close as to make no difference. As said, as long as the bad spot is not rusted or bulged out larger than .38 bore diameter, the barrel will be fine.
Feeding in a repeater is a different question, and I don't know anything about the mechanics of an 1894. Sounds like yours is broken to start with.
Confucius say: Knowledge comes from taking things apart, wisdom comes from putting them back together.
John Browning was a sadist, he never designed a commercial firearm for user maintenance.
Feeding in a repeater is a different question, and I don't know anything about the mechanics of an 1894. Sounds like yours is broken to start with.
Confucius say: Knowledge comes from taking things apart, wisdom comes from putting them back together.
John Browning was a sadist, he never designed a commercial firearm for user maintenance.
greyling22
Member
I'm familiar enough with a 92 action that I stick with marlin's
I've never dug into a 94 much, and the one I did was long ago. All I remember now was that it was a pain.
sugarmaker
Member
Hard to say without seeing but I would take it apart and look for bent or wrong sized screws, file marks, hammer marks, or other signs of damage. Quite a few of these got gunsmithed at deer camp over their 120 year 3 generation lifetimes, no internet to find parts and no gunsmith within 3 hours. Best bet is to go to brownells and get the replaceable tip driver and a tip set for an 1894. It will be interesting to see what you find. A common re-assembly mistake is bending the elevator when installing the screws from the side. It’s easy not to do if you are aware that it is easily bent.
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1KPerDay
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Lots of screws are buggered badly. Took a look tonight and compared it to another 94 and the locking bolt moves further to the rear of the link in the .32-40 that is having issues. I can’t see anything externally that would prevent it from moving to the rear too far to allow the link/lever to cam/open properly and let the bolt move fully rearward. But it definitely is more rattly and loose than the other rifle.
it feels like there should be something internally further up that keeps the locking bolt from moving that far rearward but I’m too dumb to figure out what it might be. If I point the nose down it works perfectly, as noted above.
it feels like there should be something internally further up that keeps the locking bolt from moving that far rearward but I’m too dumb to figure out what it might be. If I point the nose down it works perfectly, as noted above.
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1KPerDay
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First pic is .32-40 with the action locked up and the bolt not fully rearward.
second pic same rifle after pushing the locking bolt forward and opening the action fully.
Third pic showing I can move the locking bolt this far back with the bolt fully rearward.
Next pics are of the other rifle same positions.
second pic same rifle after pushing the locking bolt forward and opening the action fully.
Third pic showing I can move the locking bolt this far back with the bolt fully rearward.
Next pics are of the other rifle same positions.
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sugarmaker
Member
Very good instruction for taking a 94 apart:
http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm
Your loading gate screw is buggered but you don’t need to remove it. Disassembly and diagnosis is either a good learning experience or a pretty simple gunsmith operation, at which point a close inspection of parts and receiver internals should show the problem.
http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm
Your loading gate screw is buggered but you don’t need to remove it. Disassembly and diagnosis is either a good learning experience or a pretty simple gunsmith operation, at which point a close inspection of parts and receiver internals should show the problem.
OP
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1KPerDay
Member
Okay I have updates. My gun whisperer nephew helped me get this 1896-built rifle apart. Weirdness continues. When we removed the front receiver link/pivot pin and got the bolt/lever pin out, the lever, link, AND LOCKING BOLT came out through the bottom. Every pre-‘64 tutorial I’ve seen shows the locking bolt sliding out of the groove in the rear of the link, the link/lever being removed, and the locking bolt remaining in place until the bolt and hammer are removed, at which point the locking bolt can be removed out of the top.
So: anyone want to weigh in on whether this is normal or definitely wrong? We were able to get it back together after we looked at everything.
We also drifted out the firing pin retaining pin in the bolt, because as I mentioned above, the firing pin protrudes significantly from the bolt face and I wrongly assumed it was frozen in place or broken. The firing pin actually moves freely and is not broken. It just appears to be too long. The pin is in the correct slot cut into the rear of the firing pin and it moves back and forth. It just doesn’t go flush or below flush.
Now I’m no rocket surgeon but this CAN’T be right, can it? I have some old factory cartridges that I stupidly chambered cycling through the rifle as a kid (didn’t pull the trigger, was pointed in a safe direction, but still) and they all have deep firing pin dents in the primers. Lucky none went off.
Anyway, both of my 1894s (other one is a .25-35 built in 1910) appear to be identical in this respect. Logically I assume there’s no frickin way this can be how they were designed. Were there two different lengths of firing pins? Is it possible that BOTH have had incorrect firing pins installed?
Ideas welcome.
So: anyone want to weigh in on whether this is normal or definitely wrong? We were able to get it back together after we looked at everything.
We also drifted out the firing pin retaining pin in the bolt, because as I mentioned above, the firing pin protrudes significantly from the bolt face and I wrongly assumed it was frozen in place or broken. The firing pin actually moves freely and is not broken. It just appears to be too long. The pin is in the correct slot cut into the rear of the firing pin and it moves back and forth. It just doesn’t go flush or below flush.
Now I’m no rocket surgeon but this CAN’T be right, can it? I have some old factory cartridges that I stupidly chambered cycling through the rifle as a kid (didn’t pull the trigger, was pointed in a safe direction, but still) and they all have deep firing pin dents in the primers. Lucky none went off.
Anyway, both of my 1894s (other one is a .25-35 built in 1910) appear to be identical in this respect. Logically I assume there’s no frickin way this can be how they were designed. Were there two different lengths of firing pins? Is it possible that BOTH have had incorrect firing pins installed?
Ideas welcome.
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1KPerDay
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@sugarmaker if you’re still on the forum, would you mind taking a look at the firing pins of your rifles and see if they retract flush or below flush if you push on them?
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1KPerDay
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Or anyone else with a pre-1964 Winchester Model 1894?
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1KPerDay
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Here's a quick video showing the lever, link, and locking bolt coming out of the bottom of the receiver. LMK if yours does this. From what I've seen on other videos, the locking bolt isn't supposed to be able to come out of the bottom like this.
Were you able to get the bore situation ironed out? If that were my rifle, and I was set on a new cartridge, I would have it bored and rifled. The old steel is plenty good for the 38-55 Ballard cartridge. If you want it to remain a 32-40 Ballard, have it sleeved.
Kevin
Kevin
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1KPerDay
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No, I’m trying to get the action figured out first before I shoot it and/or invest in getting it bored or sleeved. The locking bolt issue makes it a PITA to cycle the action and I’m not sure whether the firing pin is the wrong one or what. I don’t consider it safe to shoot yet.
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1KPerDay
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Plus the stock has issues/cracking along the tang. Trying to decide what to do there
GooseGestapo
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Someone probably installed a wrong firing pin.
That in itself raises questions.
I suggest professional intervention. Get an expert’s opinion…
Last time I worked on a Model 94 was one I was given that was thrown from a vehicle during a high speed chase with a game warden while I was in college in ‘70’s. They got the gun back after court appearance and paying fines… but gun was a mess. I replaced both stock, lever, and magazine tube. and refinished reciever and barrel. I used “used” parts sourced from gun shows and various gun shops and several gunsmiths. I had a lot of time in it but time is something I had it was rather handsome when I finished. I sighted in the iron sights and traded it for a Cobra CB radio installation in my car.
I had it apart several times, but that was 50yds ago…
They weren’t highly regarded back then..
I’ve got three now!
That in itself raises questions.
I suggest professional intervention. Get an expert’s opinion…
Last time I worked on a Model 94 was one I was given that was thrown from a vehicle during a high speed chase with a game warden while I was in college in ‘70’s. They got the gun back after court appearance and paying fines… but gun was a mess. I replaced both stock, lever, and magazine tube. and refinished reciever and barrel. I used “used” parts sourced from gun shows and various gun shops and several gunsmiths. I had a lot of time in it but time is something I had it was rather handsome when I finished. I sighted in the iron sights and traded it for a Cobra CB radio installation in my car.
I had it apart several times, but that was 50yds ago…
They weren’t highly regarded back then..
I’ve got three now!
OP
OP
1KPerDay
Member
I’ll measure the firing pins at the first opportunity. I’d be very surprised if both rifles had the same issue but they appear to at the moment. It’s a mystery.
sugarmaker
Member
@1K, they float freely in the bolt, below flush at rearmost travel. Depending if the action is up or down it can be either below flush or proud of the bolt face. The case rim moves the pin back into the bolt when it slides up during chambering as the pin is rather rounded and does not catch anything.
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1KPerDay
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Mine appear to be firmly in place even with the bolt close to closed and can’t be pressed back into the bolt face. Something is not right and I can’t figure it out.
GooseGestapo
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Congealed WD40 ?.
Get your action back in shape and then shoot it. Determine if it needs a re-bore afterwards. I used to be into shooting mil surp garands and such. There were many an ugly barrel that shot well. I have a Model 94 in 38-55 octagon built in 1896 that shoots well with gas checked lead. The barrel was worn of course and I have to use .379 or .380 lead bullets. Slug the barrel and see what you have before jumping ship...
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1KPerDay
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Possible but I’ve disassembled the bolt and removed the firing pin on one of them and it seems to be moving freely and not stuck or broken. It just seems like it’s too long. Which I do not understand.
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1KPerDay
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Ok I have updates. Got the 1910 1894 .25-35 apart other than the mangled right side carrier screw. Firing pin moves freely back and forth BUT never goes below about .010-.014” above flush with the bolt face. With the bolt out and the firing pin pushed fully forward it protrudes about .124”. Drove the firing pin retention pin out across the bottom rear of the bolt. Firing pin could turn but wouldn’t come out. I had to use a 1/16” pin punch on the tip of the firing pin and tap it out from the front.
Firing pin tip doesn’t appear mushroomed and measures .100”-102” in diameter and not any larger right near the tip. Firing pin measures 3.679” in length.
Firing pin tip doesn’t appear mushroomed and measures .100”-102” in diameter and not any larger right near the tip. Firing pin measures 3.679” in length.
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