Can I get some intro info on surplus guns?

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BridgeWalker

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I thought I wasn't terribly interested in military-type weapons, until I followed some links and discovered I can get a surplus revolver for under $100, and ammo at less than $.50/round. :eek:

I could sure use a more intense carbine for when the new .22 gets boring. I wish I didn't have to borrow my friend's Blackhawk when I want to play with a revolver. Suddenly I could get guns for real cheap. And that is a good thing because I want more types of guns than I can afford to buy. Finally branching out from being just a shotgunner.

So what's the catch?

Are many of these unfireable? Is it impossible to get reloading dies and such? I guess shipping and FFL charges will add $30-50 per, maybe less on handguns.

I'm just completely new to the world of surplus weapons. Kinda' silly, seeing as how a large proportion of my wardrobe is milsurp. Can some kind sould give me the basics?
 
Don't go there delta... that way lies madness. :D

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums

It's a world unto itself. You can do an advanced search using "milsurp" or C&R. But I warn you, it is addictive buying old bolt actions, revolvers, etc.
Check out ParallaxBill's website and lurk for awhile. Figure out whatcha think ya want, what's cheap, what's available and get out your wallet.

My preference is SMLE's, Swedes, Arisakas, Mausers, 03's, M1 Garands & M1 Carbines... not too big on M-N's for some reason (but I own a couple 3).

Right now go buy a Swiss K31. Go! Do it! Bring it home and marvel. Go to Big 5 and buy an M-44. They're cheap. Real cheap. Excellent value. May not be the most accurate thing, but for less than a bill you'll be playing the game. Buy a Yugo or two. M48 and an SKS. You will be hooked for life.

And don't say you weren't warned. Me? I can stop any time. Really. Probably next year. You do know that CMP has another batch of Garands they're getting ready to sell doncha?

Here's the old justification... "They aren't going to be available forever, so you better buy them now."

Muahahahahaha ;)
 
What to get now:

1st: A reloading press and gear. You are going to need it for some of the more obscure calibers. Surplus ammunition is generally not reloadable, and much of it is corrosive. You will want to properly clean the bore after shooting. Search for "corrosive cleaning".

2nd: Get a C&R FFL if you are 21. This will allow you to cut out the middleman and buy direct from the distributors.

3rd: Get these rifles now, while you still can:
Swiss K-31. These are high-quality, highly accurate rifles. Downside? Ammunition is a bit pricey and rare. So you will want to reload.
I'd also look at the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine, and a SMLE. Maybe even a Mauser. Mosins are going to be around for a while, so no worries there.

I've only got a Mosin, but I'm hankering for a K-31, a SMLE, a Garand, and a good M1 Carbine.
 
Oh, the Garand was already on the shopping list. That one will be (at least nominally) the husband's rifle. (I do intend to steal it occasionally. Shh! Don't tell!) That's budgeted for his birthday in May, but thats also pricier than a lot of what it seems is available. Might try to do it this winter so he can participate in the local January Garand shoot, but it depends when the new batch is available and when we find the cash. But while I've been perusing CMP, I missed all the other sources for milsurp.

About reloading: We're currently building our reloading bench, and although the original intention was mostly shotshells, we were planning on metallic as well. Are the dies available though?

Off to go look at more stuff. Thanks for the links.
 
Well, so far the local BATF office refused to send me the forms until I had verification that collecting guns was not disallowed by local ordinances.

This is gonna be interesting...
 
I have been looking at reloading presses and have found a lot of the dies are available. Lee will also make custom dies for about $20-$30 if you provide a unfired shell casing with bullet minus the powder and primer.

Definitely get a C&R license. It only costs $30 for three years and you will save that much on your first order. One other advantage of buying military surplus with a C&R license is the value of what you buy always goes up when the supply dries up. This applies to ammo as well as guns.

If you want the forms for a C&R license, order them over the internet from the BATF. You can't down load them. Also look at http://www.cruffler.com they have a tutorial on filling out the forms. They also tell you what you can and can't do with a C&R license.

I never heard of local ordinances dictateing if you can have a license or not. Could they be refering to the required letter to the Cheif Law Enforcement Officer asking if there are no objections to you getting a license?
 
About reloading: We're currently building our reloading bench, and although the original intention was mostly shotshells, we were planning on metallic as well. Are the dies available though?
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Pretty much, yeah. If they aren't, you might have to have custom ones made.
But then again, the most oddball caliber I have considered is whatever the K-31 is chambered in (I can't remember exactly what it is, though)
 
Well, so far the local BATF office refused to send me the forms until I had verification that collecting guns was not disallowed by local ordinances.

This is gonna be interesting...
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You can order the forms from the ATF Distribution Center.
http://www.atf.gov/dcof/

They'll mail whatever you want to you- you should have the docs in less than a week- no charge.
 
Go to Big 5 and buy an M-44. They're cheap. Real cheap. Excellent value. May not be the most accurate thing, but for less than a bill you'll be playing the game
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Baba are you trying to scare the poor guy off? At least start on the MN91/30, and spare him the shoulder replacement.
 
Surplus revolver under $100? You mean the Nagant 1895? Well made guns, but horrible trigger pull and a bit weak and ammo isn't widely available, but you can reload and/or get a conversion cylinder for a more common round...but along with all the negatives come the fact that it's a very strange revolver. If you ever want a silenced revolver it's the one to do it with because of the design that pulls the cylinder and barrel tightly together when firing, eliminating the sound leakage you could get on a normal revolver...

My last revolver was under $50, an old top break .32, made in the 1880's, so blackpowder only but that just makes it more fun to play with...really, there are lots of bargains out there, and not just mil surplus, lots of common/everyday guns of the past are now neglected by most collectors and are cheap...
 
I already lost one shoulder to judo, so I'd like to keep the other more or less intact. (And that's "she", btw )
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My apologies.

To elaborate, all of the Mosins are great examples of fun surplus rifles, they're cheap, common, and a hoot. Most places that have a mess of M44's will also have some 91/30s. I don't recommend the M44 as an "introduction" gun because it's got a bit of a reputation in milsurp circles for having put the "boom" in "boomstick". It's a fairly short rifle for a large cartridge, and comes with a thin steel buttplate that doesn't leave anything to the imagination. My wife is not a small woman, and she won't shoot that thing more than a couple of times on a bet.

It's fun to let my brother in law shoot it tho, he's too "tough" to admit it kicks his *** so we all get a chuckle out of the deal.
 
Surplus revolver under $100? You mean the Nagant 1895?
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For just a bit over $100, the CZ52 is a great buy.

The C&R is a must have if you're into this stuff. Can't tell you how great it was to have the UPS guy hand me a big box'o Webley yesterday.
 
A good place for some basic milsurp info is http://www.surplusrifle.com/

Lots of manuals, etc there. I've been collecting milsurp stuff for a few years now, have collected the following:

rifles:

M1 Garand
M1A
Steyr m95 Carbine
Swiss K31 Carbine
M44 Mosin
M1916 Mauser
K98 Mauser
M48 Yugo Mauser
Brit SMLE .303
Enfield Pattern Rifled Musket (civil war)
Yugo SKS 66 rifle

Pistols:

CZ52
CZ82
P64
Walther P38
PA63

I shoot them all. The first thing I do when I get a new one is learn how to take it apart and put it back together, and throughly clean the weapon. Some milsurp rifles in particular will come with cosmoline or other materials in the bore - you want to make sure your weapon functions well before you shoot it.

In the case of the bolt action rifles I'd suggest a set of GO-NO GO gauges to check the headspace.

When you shoot, check the brass to see if it is boxer or berdan primed. If boxer, save the brass in case you decide to reload sometime later.

Beware, it's addicting! I have a bigger list of 'wants' now than I did when I started.

jw
 
Awesome, I'm definately going to have to pick up a couple different milsurp handguns from aim...If I were going to get 2, one being the $79 nagant, what would you guys recommend for the other one?

Oh, and a C&R won't work on handguns will it?
 
Oh, and a C&R won't work on handguns will it?
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If the handguns are C&R eligible, and there isn't any prohibiting state or local laws, you may. They just need to be shipped common carrier.
 
CZ52 would be the first thing to get with your C&R. I have 2. Now and then you will see a 9mm barrel for the CZ52. I have 2. So in 15 seconds I can go from shooting 7.62 x 25 ammo to 9mm Luger ammo with the same gun. The next thing will be a CZ82. You can get ammo for these and the Swiss K31 (7.5x55) and a bunch of others at Aim also. That Swiss ammo is not really expensive considering it's quality high powered rifle ammo. You can also buy commercial ammo in soft point for the K31 which would be just the ticket for deer.

In Missouri the C&R license lets you buy C&R pistols from out of state dealers and have them shipped right to your front door.
 
You don't find many revolvers on the active milsurp market these days just because most that were in arsenals were sold off long ago. You'll still find them, you just have to look a bit harder. There are a lot of 50+ year old Smiths and Colt wheelguns that you can pick up with a C&R.

Here's the revolver I added to my collection this week with my C&R. A bit higher than $100, though.
pix2509496312.jpg
 
My milsurps are my SMLE , M91/30 and Turkish 8MM Mauser . One point that some people fail to see are that these rifles make great all around hunting weapons too .
 
I never heard of local ordinances dictateing if you can have a license or not. Could they be refering to the required letter to the Cheif Law Enforcement Officer asking if there are no objections to you getting a license?
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No, the guy was just messing with me. :cuss: :fire: It was pretty obvious.

He just ordered me to go check my local ordinances before I start trying to load up on rifles, and refused to take any information or send the packet out. I ordered it via the website.

Is giving people a hard time a favorite hobby with BATF agents?

I was almost tempted to call back and try to get to a higher up to get the stuff mailed, but realized that that was probably not a wise idea.

Still. :fire::cuss:
 
Don't let anyone scare you away from the Mosins, both my daughters shoot mine. They are 16 and 18 years old. My 16 year old likes my FAL even more
 
delta,
On Parallax Bill's website below the header, top left is a link to C&R dealers. Peruse. Sarco, Samco, SOG, AIM... eye candy.

I don't care what they cost, buy a Swede M96. If you can find one that's all matching even better, but you need to know perfection right up front. The M38 isn't bad either but doesn't have the panache that the old slim lady does (to my mind). The CG 63 is the target version (CG for Carl Gustav) of the 96 action. Really and truly, supplies are running low and prices are running high. Male and female tend to appreciate the 6.5SE (aka 6.5x55)

Then, or at the same time, get a Swiss K-31.

Those two nations remained neutral during the past century's warfare and their weapons are choice, for the most part. They took their shooting seriously and their weapons show it and can do it at the range. They are worth far more than their present dollar value when you consider what it would cost to manufacture them today (same can be said for lots of things, I understand)

When you've recovered from those purchases, look for a Czech mfg (BRNO) Persian Mauser. Not cheap. Perfection again, this time in 8mm.

The local Big 5 told me I could pick any No4-MkI they had left in stock for $129 even tho they're tagged at $179. They know my weakness... the buzzards. (I've already got two tho') A No1-MkIII and a No5 Jungle should round out that end of things. .303 ain't cheap to shoot and I've been wondering about the Indian SMLE's in .308, but I probably won't ever go thataway cause a SMLE in .308 is, it's, it's... un-natural. (but probably a good buy and a hoot to shoot.)

SOG has some Finnish M39's. Another must have.

I know you said something about revolvers. Good luck and good hunting. Good surplus wheelguns aren't going to be cheap as z6z said.

If you pace yourself and only buy 2 or 3 each month for the first year or two, you can then slow down even more, cull out the herd (I'm just kidding) and start being selective or get specific. As in owning 24 Swedes or 18 SMLEs or 16 M1 Carbines.

Notice I haven't steered you to US mfg arms. I've called dibs on those :D (Don't I wish?)
 
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