Can you outshoot your sights in rapid fire?

[coalman]

New thread better explaining my point.

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My observation: Comparing a G17 to a 9mm P226 using full power ammo as fast as I can shoot at 7-10 yards I've found I can physically shoot the G17 faster (short reset), but shoot a Sig (longer reset and more recoil movement) consistently better relative to POI and grouping.

The longer reset (and shot delay) of the much better Sig SA trigger seems to allow me to track back fully on target and more consistently find the front sight before the next shot (despite the higher bore axis translation to more recoil movement). So, rapid fire with the P226 is slightly slower but consistently better in POI and grouping with fewer flyers and flyers that are of less spread.

See poll.

Disclosure: The 9mm Glock (17/19/26) trigger has long challenged me. This despite having >40k in 9mm Glocks vs. <3k in 9mm Sigs. Currently, I run a 3.5# trigger bar in my >9k in 9mm and >10k in .22lr otherwise stock early Gen3 G17. It's ergomonics. I shoot the 1911, XD, Sig, CZ and .45acp Glocks better (POI/grouping) than the 9mm Glocks despite having up to 15x the round count in the latter. And, after >40k in 9mm Glocks I'm increasingly confident more Glock 9mm practice is not the solution.

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[Bobson]

It's a subjective topic. My struggling with a certain type of trigger isn't going to mean my brother will struggle with it, too.

Fact is it's a matter of practice, and knowing what needs to be adjusted. With forty thousand rounds downrange out of the assorted 9mm Glocks, if you haven't mastered (or close to) the G17, it's because you're not practicing effectively. The most likely problem is that you don't know what adjustments need to be made.

During rapid fire of a handgun, timing and consistency on the trigger are everything. You need to consistently apply the correct amount of pressure to the trigger, while simultaneously timing that squeeze so that the round is discharged just when the sights are back on target. Like I said, its a matter of practice and familiarity with the handgun in question.

Your ability to get tighter groups isn't a testament that the SIG is superior - just that it's an easier platform for you to learn. Might not be a bad idea to stick with the SIG.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Well, depending on how you define outshoot your sights.

I gather from you entire post that you mean to include accuracy...in that case; no.

You can, with the correct technique, reset the trigger of any semi-auto pistol faster than it can return to target. In that case, how quickly you can reset the trigger has very little to do with how quickly you can shoot accurately.

How quickly you can shoot accurately is determined by how quickly you can see your sights on target and the lag time between seeing them and pressing the trigger correctly.

I've found that the longer travel and more tactile feedback of the Glock trigger, before letoff, makes it easier for less skilled shooters to shoot more accurately at speed...and I actually prefer a bit of travel before trigger break.

I agree that with that many rounds through Glocks, if you aren't shooting as well, it is a technique issue.

as fast as I can shoot at 7-10 yards I've found I can physically shoot the G17 faster (short reset)

How fast are you shooting when comparing accuracy...faster or slower than 5 rounds a second?

How accurate; 4", 6", 8" groups?

 

[coalman]

New thread better explaining my point.