Can you shoot an inch at 100 yards with a scope?

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Hi Everyone. I finally got out the other day with my Sako A7 and I have a question.

I know for a fact that on a good day I can shoot into about an inch with a peep sight and have even done it with blade sites. My Schmidt Rubin does it over and over again and that is a military stocked firearm with no accuracy work at all.
The A7 is tested at the factory in Finland and they all shoot under an inch at 100 yards. They even guarantee a 5 shot group, which is nuts because so few people can even do that. I used yellow and green box Remington ammo
(not premium ammo) and I am wondering if it was the ammo, the fact that the scope is not steady, or something outside of my control. I do have premium ammo for it but wanted to get it sighted in and broken in some.

Can you guys tell me if you shoot better with a scope, worse, or if you think it is just the ammo. It is in .300 WSM and I have some Federal premium for it, but Hornady doesn't make that caliber. Any suggestions?
 
i can't recall any remington ammo that ever shot well in any of my rifles. i know other people like it, but i would definitely try some different ammo.

does black hills make 300 wsm?
 
No, they don't. And the Federal and Winchester Premium is like $50 a box. There is an issue with the WSM calibers that they have to be licensed by the inventory, so Hornady doesn't make any WMS calibers. You have to figure that if Sako is guaranteeing an inch at 100 yards they have to be shipping at better than that, assuming ammo fluctuations. With the Schmidt Rubin you know there is no sloppiness in the Swiss ammo. It's like super super premium. I was hoping someone might say yea I have the same problem when I shoot with a scope. It is so bouncy you just feel like you can't hold the gun still.
 
With a scope you do see more movement when holding the gun. When you were shooting were you setup to remove the human error? I haven't personally used one but the lead sled I hear is good for sighting in and working up loads. But like taliv said, I don't like the remington ammo either. Also make sure the rings and bases are properly tightened down and that they haven't become loose, I know many like to use blue locktite when then setup their bases.

There are a lot of factors that can come into play and I think with a more detailed setup of your gear might help others provide more info.
 
As stated above, there are so many factors on this more detailed info is needed.

In answer to your basic question, if a quality scope (I assume you mean a magnification type?) is mounted correctly and firmly, any given shooter in any given conditions *should* be able to be more accurate than with iron sights, as you can simply more precisely identify your exact aim point than with eyes and irons alone.
 
I have a .30-06 that shoots about 3/4" groups with my relatively casual handloads (i.e. I don't ream primer pockets, only trim cases when they're over spec length, and I use a Hornady measure and only weigh every 10 drops or so, with stick powder that isn't the most measure-friendly -- I don't use a trickler or anything like that for these loads). I do caliper OAL to be sure the bullets are seated consistently, but these are by no means "accuracy loads." These are good hunting loads, and that's it. The long-range target guys will spend a lot more time handloading.

The same rifle has never done better than 2" with any of various types of Remington factory ammo, even the higher-end stuff.

Does that mean Remington ammo is bad? Not necessarily. However, it is entirely possible that it won't shoot well in a given rifle.
 
That was what I was thinking! When you can clearly see the inch you are trying to shoot into and can shoot in the actual middle of it instead of centered on it, wouldn't you think you could? The long story is that I haven't shot rifles since I first moved to florida because down here the only places to shoot (until now) have been state park ranges. They are really terrible because every ten minutes someone new shows up and they have to make the range cold again. So I finally found an easily drivable private range and decided it is time to get my rifle stuff going again. My preference has always been iron sights (Sharps, Garand, 03 Springfield, Nagants, Mausers etc.) but I know I have to know what is going on in the hunting rifle world too if I am going to make sure that the magazine is evenly rounded.

The scope is a ~$400 Leupold 3-9 (the only one bass pro had in silver to match the rifle lol) and was freshly and securely mounted.

Even though the gun was indeed bagged, and I do use a Pact shoulder pad so I'm not flinching after the first shot, I am going to get a led sled I think. I almost got one at bass pro and didn't. From what you guys are saying this was probably an ammo issue regardless. I'm actually saving the premium ammo for a "does premium ammo make a difference article" so I figured better to answer these questions first.
 
there are lots of other less obvious reasons a scope could make you shoot worse than you were with irons.

for example, if eye relief wasn't taken into account when mounting, or if your rings are too high or too low, you may have a really poor body position that makes NPA impossible
 
If you can shoot MOA with irons, you 'may' see a slight improvement with a hunting scope but it won't be much. If you're not accustomed to shooting with a scope, it's not surprising that you didn't not shoot as well. I think lots of folks are under the impression that scopes are automatically more accurate and easier to shoot but IMHO it's because they never spent much time refining their skills with a good peep.
 
In answer to your basic question, if a quality scope (I assume you mean a magnification type?) is mounted correctly and firmly, any given shooter in any given conditions *should* be able to be more accurate than with iron sights, as you can simply more precisely identify your exact aim point than with eyes and irons alone.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Higher power magnificatio exagerates the shaking or movement you have. it becomes harder to hold the cross hairs steady the higher magnification you have. you can train to do better at higher magnifications.

most of my hunting is done at 3x magnification, though my scopes go to 10 and 12.

with the 3x, I can shoot 1" groups offhand with my '06 and .308. groups are tighter when the gun is in a gunrest on the bench.
 
I use a Caldwell LeadSled with 25 lbs of sandbags when I sight in. I get better than 1" groups at 100 yds with both my Rem 700 in .308 Win and my Savage 116 in .30-06 with Fed GMM 168gr.

FH
 
Don't put a 100lbs of weight in a lead sled, as the previous poster stated only put a bag or so in there otherwise chances are you'll end up cracking your stock as that recoil (energy) needs to go somewhere.

Without doing any other work, other than a trigger job to one new Remington I had last in in 7mm-08 I had a box of cheap Remington 140g loads. Thing was all over the place and I was really getting worried. Tried some Federal Premiums I had in the same weight and it shrunk the groups significantly. I have another 7mm-08 in a different Remington rifle that will shoot the plain jane stuff just fine. Lots of variables in what a rifle may or may not like.
 
My Savage 10FP easily shoots inside an inch with my handloads and Fed GMM ammo, more like .5"-.6" for five rounds @ 100yrds. But, I shot some factory Federal Eagle 150gr ammo, and couldn't get into 2" with it!! Ammo makes a huge difference!:)

Oh yeah....Scope set on 25X.....A person shakes the same at 25X as he does at 3X, so you might as well use the whole scope. If properly rested, and rear bagged, the jitters go away, then all ya gotta worry about is trigger control, cheek weld, breathing, body position, heartbeat, consistant shoulder position & pressure, uhhhh.... what else:D
 
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Yes I was sharing bags and didn't really rear bag the gun. It's funny how ammo can shoot good in one gun and not in another. I hate living in south florida NO BASEMENTS. I am going to steal an office at work and make it a reloading room I think. I miss working up loads. That is the best way to really see how a gun shoots. We had an article on cartridge overall length last month from the guy who runs the custom gun shop at the AMU. I used to do that stuff, even with my BPCR rifles, but these days I'm shooting factory ammo and feel so powerless. I'll let you know how I do with the sled. No shake is really the ideal. At AMU they have fixtures that hold the gun perfectly so you can see what it actually shoots as a physical machine with no human involved. As close as I can get to that with ammo testing the better I think.
 
Can you shoot an inch at 100 yards with a scope?
Click to expand...

NO, YOU'LL NEED A FIREARM! Scopes don't actually shoot anything.

Seriously though if the guarantee is one MOA 5 shot groups, you can assume that the rifle will do this with some loads but certainly not all of them. Proper testing of a few different brands should help you wring it out.

I'm pretty sure a good scope and mount will allow you to be more accurate.
 
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I regularly get sub 1" groups with my rem 700 .308, with handloads using 168gr serria match kings, with 3x9 leupold set at 9 power, with a harris bipod at 100 yds. Twice I have gotten .4" 5rd groups, but I had to do my part, mostly .6" to .9" is the common 5 rd groups.
 
I can get 1.5" at 100 yards with Remington Core-Lokt's, good enough for hunting, 308 caliber. With my handload's using 168 grain Nosler HPBT's, I can get .75" fairly frequently.
 
My prairie dog rifles (Savage 110 action/Shilen 22-250AI barrel, savage 110 action/Shilen 243 barrel, Stock Savage 12 BVSS, and a custom Win 700/280 AI/Krieger barrel) all wear Bushnell Elite 8x32s and all shoot my handloads into an inch or less at 100 from a bench with front BR rest and rear bag, slow fire.
 
I can't shoot 1" groups with open sights at 100 yds with any normal sighted rifle I have ever shot. You're doing very well. You should see an improvement with the scope. My Dad was a big open sight guy, and he just never got the hang of using a scope very well back. He was much more confident with open sights. Confidence is important.
 
I find out if a rifle can shoot, BEFORE I ever mount a scope. i shoot it at 50 yards, open sites, with as many diff ammos for the rifle I can find. If I see it has shooting potential, then I do some basic tweeks; tune the trigger just a bit, make sure bbl is freefloated-AFTER IT IS WELL HEATED UP;, maybe add a pressure pad up front, aluminum tape the receiver/action inside the stock. You can do the above stuff simply, and in under an hour. Then I reshoot, to see if it changed it 's favorite grouping ammo. Then I add a scope...
 
rangerruck has a great suggestion above. It's too bad so many rifles don't have sights installed at the factory.
 
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