Canik TP9SA......what if????

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grter said:
No not simular. What I think is being said is it's the exact same design. They work exactly the same even though the parts don't exchange because they are not the same size.

Because it's not a "clone" (splitting hairs) does not mean the design is different in any way.

Furthermore I am not familiar with any of the firearms being discussed in this thread.
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Keep going with that.

The irony is that I see people knocking a gun because it's "the exact same design" as a gun they like.
 
The P99QA shares that same decocker that renders the gun inoperable. They don't make the QA variant anymore but that aspect isn't solely limited to the Canik.
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Indeed. The P99QA's button was much smaller and meant to aid in dis-assembly. Fortunately that design feature went away when the P99QA was replaced with the PPQ.

It appears you are missing the meaning of the word clone. Clone would be an exact copy. As far as the decocker, that garbage has been hashed over time and time again. The only people that care about that are irrational people that choose to hate on an inanimate object.
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Per Merriam-Webster a clone is ": a product that is a copy of another product produced by a well-known company".

The TP9 is clearly a copy of the P99 design, and thus the use of the word "clone" is warranted. The design (both aesthetic and in terms of interior design and operation) copies that of the P99. The fact that he original TP9 uses a knock-off of the Walther Anti-Stress (AS) trigger operation (to date used only by the P99 and it's SW99 and Magnum Research MR9 licensed copies) further reinforces this fact.

So what? The word "clone" is only a slur if you make it one. Canik used an extremely good design (the P99) to copy. Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and innumerable other well-respected companies make clones of Browning's Colt M1911 design, and no one gets their panties in a wad over that.

As far as being irrational, methinks you may be a a TP9 owner who has become a bit too emotionally-attached to your purchase to be able to objectively consider it against other products. That can be the only explanation I can think of for your personal attack. The decocker is a built-in failure point to the TP9SA design (that most competing pistols with no second-strike ability do not have), plain and simple. Whether you like this objective observation or not does not make it less so.


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Fishbed77 said:
Indeed. The P99QA's button was much smaller and meant to aid in dis-assembly. Fortunately that design feature went away when the P99QA was replaced with the PPQ.







Per Merriam-Webster a clone is ": a product that is a copy of another product produced by a well-known company".



The TP9 is clearly a copy of the P99 design. So what? The word "clone" is only a slur if you make it one. Canik used an extremely good design to copy. Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and innumerable other well-respected companies make clones of Browning's Colt M1911 design, and no one gets their panties in a wad over that.



As far as being irrational, methinks you may be a a TP9 owner who has become a bit too emotionally-attached to your purchase to be able to objectively consider it against other products. That can be the only explanation I can think of for your personal attack. The decocker is a built-in failure point to the TP9SA design (that many competing pistols with no second-strike ability do not have), plain and simple. Whether you like this objective observation or not does not make it less so.
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A clone would have interchangeable parts. A design copy would be close, but clone it is not.
 
Magazine of the TP9 functions in the PPQ M2.

You were saying something...

Goodness sake, you are going to make me root up my personal photos showing the internals are the exact same aren't you?
 
wild cat mccane said:
Magazine of the TP9 functions in the PPQ M2.

You were saying something...

Goodness sake, you are going to make me root up my personal photos showing the internals are the exact same aren't you?
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They are not exactly the same, or else you could take parts from one and put in another. I've seen the pictures.

It amazes me how many people don't understand the meaning of "exactly the same."
 
wild cat mccane said:
Goodness sake, you are going to make me root up my personal photos showing the internals are the exact same aren't you?
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You guys are really arguing semantics.

Both of you agree that the design of the TP is based on the Walther but that the parts don't interchange. What you're arguing is the semantics of whether or not the TP is a clone.

Lets toss that aside for a second, and think about the original purpose of the thread: the fear about procuring replacement parts for the TP should something break.

With that in mind, given that the parts do not interchange, the fact that the TP is based on the Walther isn't really of any use. It doesn't aid the original poster in procurement of replacement parts.
 
mgmorden said:
You guys are really arguing semantics.



Both of you agree that the design of the TP is based on the Walther but that the parts don't interchange. What you're arguing is the semantics of whether or not the TP is a clone.



Lets toss that aside for a second, and think about the original purpose of the thread: the fear about procuring replacement parts for the TP should something break.



With that in mind, given that the parts do not interchange, the fact that the TP is based on the Walther isn't really of any use. It doesn't aid the original poster in procurement of replacement parts.
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Century is very good about service of these pistols. There is a facebook page dedicated to them and the head of the service dept and another of the tech reps are always there to answer questions.

The few times I've seen people post with issues they are right on top of it, either sending a mag or whatever needed or supplying a shipping label to have it sent back.

So far century has done a great job. Enough so that it's kind of starting to change my opinion of them.
 
Grunt said:
So I have been looking at the Canik TP9SA as a potential future purchase. From what I have been able to learn about them, they are accurate, reliable, ergonomic, have a decent trigger pull and a good capacity at 18 rounds in the mag. Of course, the low price is also an attractive selling point. Excellent bang for the buck. However, there is a nagging question about a Canik that is keeping me from buying one. That's the big "what if" happens. What happens if you need to replace a recoil spring, a striker, a slide stop or some other small part that you never thought would break goes tango uniform? Some guns like a Glock or 1911 have factory and aftermarket parts all over the place. HKs have only to go to HKparts to get replacement parts. Even Ruger that isn't a big believer in selling parts to non-gunsmiths still has the option of returning it to Ruger for repairs. What's a Canik owner to do? Century is only an importer for Canik so I am thinking they aren't going to be much help. While Steyr even has a distributor to return broken pistols to, I don't know of anything Canik has here in the US. So are Canik owners that have issues with their pistols that may pop up stuck with a paperweight or what?
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I would suggest getting the real deal Walther P99 AS as Bud's often has them for around $479. A more compact pistol that is small enough to CCW if need be and a variety of holsters available for it also. While compact in size the P99 AS is known to be an extremely accurate pistol.

To me for not that much more investment the P99 AS is a very high quality German engineered and made pistol that comes test fired from the factory with a test target.

Walther has also really upped their service level this last year in case you need any warranty work or parts though very unlikely.

Also keep in mind that while your initial investment of the Walther will be more, it will also be worth more if you ever decide to sell some day.
 
For arguments sake lets call the tp9 a p99 copy, not a clone. Just like the mr9 and sw99 are also copies of this great design. Splitting hairs here aren't we guys? Parts availability will always be a concern when you buy firearms not made by the major gun companies unless you go with something like say a 1911
 
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The most helpful part, that could be interchanged, would be the recoil spring. Barrel would just be a plus.

Someone with both Walther and Canik care to test?
 
Grunt said:
So I have been looking at the Canik TP9SA as a potential future purchase. From what I have been able to learn about them, they are accurate, reliable, ergonomic, have a decent trigger pull and a good capacity at 18 rounds in the mag. Of course, the low price is also an attractive selling point. Excellent bang for the buck. However, there is a nagging question about a Canik that is keeping me from buying one. That's the big "what if" happens. What happens if you need to replace a recoil spring, a striker, a slide stop or some other small part that you never thought would break goes tango uniform? Some guns like a Glock or 1911 have factory and aftermarket parts all over the place. HKs have only to go to HKparts to get replacement parts. Even Ruger that isn't a big believer in selling parts to non-gunsmiths still has the option of returning it to Ruger for repairs. What's a Canik owner to do? Century is only an importer for Canik so I am thinking they aren't going to be much help. While Steyr even has a distributor to return broken pistols to, I don't know of anything Canik has here in the US. So are Canik owners that have issues with their pistols that may pop up stuck with a paperweight or what?
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I would spend a little more and get true military issue gun from Trukey imported by Armalite as AR-24. Having looked over one closely it is hard to imagine something would break. It is at least as good as original CZ-75 and dull finish is far more practical.
 
The TP9SA is an amazing gun. I have fired it enough that I am not worried about it. Century Arms is providing warranty repair and replacement parts for the TP9 and the TP9SA.
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Century offers some GREAT deals on a variety of weapons. But if you buy a weapon from them and expect to rely on their warranty repair and replacement support, you'd better hope that whatever breaks does so soon after your purchase. Once the weapon is no longer being sold, replacement parts seem to get very scarce.

Turkey is creating an impressive arms industry, so there may be other options for the CANIK weapons -- but finding them may not be easy.

When you try to get replacement parts (not under warranty) for a gun you bought several years ago you'll likely come away empty-handed and frustrated. Even things as pedestrian as magazines can be hard to find for some of their guns. (I found that to be the case with a standard magazine for a DaeWoo DH-40.)
 
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Serious question...is the century warranty/parts service on the Caniks and other pistols they import different from the standard (i.e. crappy) one year warranty on the original owner they have for their other products? I have personally been denied a warranty claim on my Vz2008 because it had been over a year since my initial purchase (even though the firearm itself was less than a year old as it had been a warranty replacement for the original).
 
sawdeanz said:
Serious question...is the century warranty/parts service on the Caniks and other pistols they import different from the standard (i.e. crappy) one year warranty on the original owner they have for their other products? I have personally been denied a warranty claim on my Vz2008 because it had been over a year since my initial purchase (even though the firearm itself was less than a year old as it had been a warranty replacement for the original).
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Yes, the warranty on their guns is totally seperate. From what I understand only the Canik pistols carry a lifetime warramty through Century. The warranty on their other guns is still crap.
 
I went with the TP9V2 instead of the TP9SA and I am very happy with it. Due to how the trigger works on the V2, it is kind of two pistols in one. You can rack the slide and then pre-stage the trigger to where it is SA on every shot or you can decock it and have the longer DA pull. I have put a little over 500 rounds through it at this point with no malfunctions of any kind. It seems to be extremely well made but if anything breaks, I'll pack it up and send it back to Century. I guess if it came to worst case scenario and Century didn't work out for parts or repairs for some reason, I would call or email Canik directly for parts. That company isn't going away anytime soon.

If you think the trigger on the SA or V2 is good out of the box, wait until you feel one that has had the firing mechanism tuned up, smoothed out and lubed with really good lube. The trigger on my V2 now feels as good as the trigger on my custom "Made in Germany" Sig P220 (it may actually feel better than the custom Sig but I don't want to admit it due to the price difference). Trigger upgrades on my V2 cost me a whopping $10.
 
MDI_Weapon said:
I went with the TP9V2 instead of the TP9SA and I am very happy with it. Due to how the trigger works on the V2, it is kind of two pistols in one. You can rack the slide and then pre-stage the trigger to where it is SA on every shot or you can decock it and have the longer DA pull. I have put a little over 500 rounds through it at this point with no malfunctions of any kind. It seems to be extremely well made but if anything breaks, I'll pack it up and send it back to Century. I guess if it came to worst case scenario and Century didn't work out for parts or repairs for some reason, I would call or email Canik directly for parts. That company isn't going away anytime soon.



If you think the trigger on the SA or V2 is good out of the box, wait until you feel one that has had the firing mechanism tuned up, smoothed out and lubed with really good lube. The trigger on my V2 now feels as good as the trigger on my custom "Made in Germany" Sig P220 (it may actually feel better than the custom Sig but I don't want to admit it due to the price difference). Trigger upgrades on my V2 cost me a whopping $10.
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I think when the compacts come out this year I'm going to go with the V2 trigger.
 
Yes, the V2 trigger is awesome! I honestly cannot imagine it getting a whole lot better, but for $10 it's worth a shot.

The value of the TP9V2 is astounding. I'd say we'll see a price increase before too long.
 
As for the TP9SA, I like it too. Both the TP9V2 and TP9SA are excellent firearms for those on a budget. They're excellent firearms period. Great triggers, reliable, accurate and on the high end of capacity for a handgun (18+1) with magazines manufactured by Mec-Gar. Besides the lack of a premium price or made-in-the-USA brag factor, what more could one ask for?

I've put several hundred of rounds through both my TP9SA and TP9V2 with zero issues. The pistols are easy on the hands and have proven to be accurate. I love 'em.

I've got to say though, the V2 model does seem to be the better choice for concealed carry.

My V2 on the left, SA on the right
21622203158_0187a47150_c.jpg
 
Over time Cerakote will wear off. It seems as though all gun finishes have a weakness of some type but Cerakote certainly beats the old days of having to wax and oil every crevice on your blued, concealed carry piece every other day during hot summer months. I cannot say I miss those days. If nothing else, refinishing the slide with Cerakote is not all that hard or expensive.

It just occurred to me that I was blabbing about the trigger improvement earlier and didn't say what I did to it. It is much like the 25 cent trigger job on the Glock with the addition of one spring.

Pull out the striker blocker in the slide and polish up all sides of that. Take out the trigger bar and polish up all the contact areas on that.
If your pistol is still new there is likely some very fine texture on the inside of the frame at the point where the trigger bar makes light contact on the right hand side. Lightly polish that up with some 1500-2000 grit 3M wet/dry paper until it is perfectly smooth.

The factory striker spring on the V2 is overpowered for anything but extremely hard primed ancient military ammo (or possibly really cheap and crappy steel case ammo). I tried a few different springs and finally settled on replacing the factory striker spring with a Wolff 6lb striker spring from a Glock 17. I would not use a factory Glock 5.5lb striker spring as when I tested it, I got a couple of light primer hits. Those were not with the best ammo but a little extra safety margin is a good idea on any pistol you plan to carry for self defense. After I bumped it up to the Wolff 6lb striker spring it went bang every time.

After doing all of the above, the DA trigger pull is very much improved. The SA pull will be better but it is not as noticeable as the DA improvement.
 
MDI_Weapon said:
Over time Cerakote will wear off. It seems as though all gun finishes have a weakness of some type but Cerakote certainly beats the old days of having to wax and oil every crevice on your blued, concealed carry piece every other day during hot summer months. I cannot say I miss those days. If nothing else, refinishing the slide with Cerakote is not all that hard or expensive.

It just occurred to me that I was blabbing about the trigger improvement earlier and didn't say what I did to it. It is much like the 25 cent trigger job on the Glock with the addition of one spring.

Pull out the striker blocker in the slide and polish up all sides of that. Take out the trigger bar and polish up all the contact areas on that.
If your pistol is still new there is likely some very fine texture on the inside of the frame at the point where the trigger bar makes light contact on the right hand side. Lightly polish that up with some 1500-2000 grit 3M wet/dry paper until it is perfectly smooth.

The factory striker spring on the V2 is overpowered for anything but extremely hard primed ancient military ammo (or possibly really cheap and crappy steel case ammo). I tried a few different springs and finally settled on replacing the factory striker spring with a Wolff 6lb striker spring from a Glock 17. I would not use a factory Glock 5.5lb striker spring as when I tested it, I got a couple of light primer hits. Those were not with the best ammo but a little extra safety margin is a good idea on any pistol you plan to carry for self defense. After I bumped it up to the Wolff 6lb striker spring it went bang every time.

After doing all of the above, the DA trigger pull is very much improved. The SA pull will be better but it is not as noticeable as the DA improvement.
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I'm actually a much bigger fan of bluing, but that's personal preference.

I've thought about doing some polishing on the frame and trigger bar, but I just haven't done it. The trigger is pretty darn shootable like it is.
 
Pull out the striker spring and take a look at it if you haven't already. The one on my V2 was impressively stout. I was surprised considering the trigger was above average with that spring installed.
 
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