Cannon wide body safe(from academy)

[chevyman097]

Im looking at safes. But i really dont know all that much. This will be my first safe, I really should have got one a long time ago but i cant procrastinate any longer. I gotta secure my firearms.(was a lot easier when it was 2-3. But the collection is growing fast.

Im looking at this Cannon wide body from academy for 899. The price is right and the safe is large enough for my collection to grow a bit more. here it is http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_29435_-1?Ntt=cannon&Ntk=All

If links are not ok sorry. ill remove it.

Is this a decent safe? Im looking for fire protection. Check

No exposed hinges. Check.

But im unsure about this electronic lock. What are the +/- I might encounter with the locking system? Power outage problems...security against break it...etc.

 

[lebowski]

The search feature is your friend. There is a wealth of info here on what to look for and not look for.

That cannon safe is constructed of very thin steel sheet. The "fire protection" is provided by drywall or sheetrock. Personally, I would not spend the extra money and give up the interior space to have drywall in the sides and door of the RSC as I am extremely dubious that sheetrock provides any meaningful fire protection. Personally, if I was happy with the protection of 12 gauge steel body I'd just go to Costco and buy the cheapest thing they have that met my size requirement.

I bought a safe with external hinges as I believe that's a better design than internal hinges. You cannot open a safe by attacking or removing the hinges.

I would recommend you read up here and elsewhere and keep looking.

 

[chevyman097]

Thanks Ill look around.

 

[heeler]

Honestly they are a pretty weak safe as far as burglary protection goes.
12 gauge steel and no plate door.
I make a habit every time I go to Academy to knock on the side of the safe with my knuckles just to hear the tinny sound.
If it's just to keep the kids hands off the gun then it's fine.
It wont protect anything in a fire.
There is much better for a little more money.

 

[chevyman097]

Does anyone have a suggestion on a brand? I am trying to use the search function, but its lacking to say the least. Maybe Its just me.

I have looked at a lot of different brands. But honestly, they are all #1 in their books.

What should i look for? Thicker door and walls?

I would really love to hear opinions on the electronic locks from some one who isnt trying to sell the thing to me so any info on those is appreciated.

 

[heeler]

Well I have never been a fan of Chinese anything but the Diamondback line of imported safes can be had with a 10 gauge body and a quarter inch thick plate steel door for not very much at all more money than that Cannon.
Once you start hitting the price range of around $1500.00 you start getting into the American made gun safes that are getting thicker in steel.
In the last year or so around here there have been some thick gun safe discussions that you honestly should spend sometime reading as it will,I at least think,will provide you with a fair bit of knowledge and humor too.
Buy once and cry once.

 

[heeler]

Cheveyman,what is the top dollar you want to spend??
And just as importantly what size dimension do you think will work for you with the future in mind?

 

[Shadow 7D]

NOT A SAFE
just a really expensive gym locker with a fancy paint job and wallboard 'fire protection'...

 

[chevyman097]

Cheveyman,what is the top dollar you want to spend??
And just as importantly what size dimension do you think will work for you with the future in mind?

I was really wanting to keep it 1200 or less. I can spend more...but thats cutting it close. no more than 2 grand.

Deminsions arent a huge issue. Id like it to store at least 36+ guns.

I looked at some(cant remember the brand name) that were getting into the 10-8 gauge range i think and they were waaaaay out of the price range. 3+ grand.

I have looked at the following.

Cannon
browning
remington
liberty
patriot

And of course they all claim to be the best.

I have always heard that exterior henges on any safe was a big no no. That may be wrong, but thats why im here.


Before anymore people feel the need to comment about gym lockers Id love to hear what kind of safes you all use. No offense but Ive heard the gym locker comment more times than id like to hear. If thats the only info you are going to leave without any other helpful info id rather just not hear it at all.


In reality how likely would it be for the common B&E criminal to be able to get into something like this safe? I hear people say it can be breached with a crow bar or what not, but in reality how easy is that?

Fire is a concern but not my main concern. I can give up fire protection for affordability as long as I know when i walk out the door some one cant just pick it up and carry it off or get into it with a crowbar. I just dont think the everyday criminal has a cutting torch or circular saw in his back pocket.

 

[a1abdj]

I have always heard that exterior henges on any safe was a big no no.

Next time you're at the bank or a jewelry store, look to see where the hinges on their safes are.

In reality how likely would it be for the common B&E criminal to be able to get into something like this safe? I hear people say it can be breached with a crow bar or what not, but in reality how easy is that?

A safe with a UL RSC rating is tested for a period of 5 minutes against a hammer not to exceed 18" in length or 3 pounds in weight, a prying device not to exceed 18" in length, and a drill with standard twist bits.

There are videos on youtube showing safes with RSC ratings being attacked and opened with large prybars in between the 1 and 2 minute ranges.

Here's an easy test. Open the door half way. I'm assuming you're right handed. If so, walk up to that half open door to the right half of your body, place your right knee about half way up the opening edge, and place your right hand on the top opening corner. Push with your knee and pull with your hand while watching the door. See if it flexes. If it does, think about that for a minute. How well do you think a door that you can bend with your hands will hold up to a pry bar.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Frank, I like the cheapies that two guys just pick up and throw down on a corner, yeah I know they are cheap stackon or Sentury boxes, but... it still makes for entertaining YouTube.

Consider if the money you spend on one of these boxes might not bet better spent on beefing up a closet (with out clothes, they hold humidity)

 

[chevyman097]

Quote:
I have always heard that exterior henges on any safe was a big no no.

Next time you're at the bank or a jewelry store, look to see where the hinges on their safes are.

And those safes are much larger and thicker. Not exactly going to get into those with a saw.

Quote:
In reality how likely would it be for the common B&E criminal to be able to get into something like this safe? I hear people say it can be breached with a crow bar or what not, but in reality how easy is that?

A safe with a UL RSC rating is tested for a period of 5 minutes against a hammer not to exceed 18" in length or 3 pounds in weight, a prying device not to exceed 18" in length, and a drill with standard twist bits.

There are videos on youtube showing safes with RSC ratings being attacked and opened with large prybars in between the 1 and 2 minute ranges.

Thats good info to know. So basically its like going to a car lot, some sales man is just playing me into buying "their" best safe, but its not as good as it sounds.

I will try to educate myself and look for some of these videos.

So basically for my price range im not going to find something that cant be broken into in a matter of minutes?

 

[lebowski]

Does anyone have a suggestion on a brand? I am trying to use the search function, but its lacking to say the least. Maybe Its just me.

I have looked at a lot of different brands. But honestly, they are all #1 in their books.

What should i look for? Thicker door and walls?

I would really love to hear opinions on the electronic locks from some one who isnt trying to sell the thing to me so any info on those is appreciated.

I have a sturdy safe and am very happy with it. Amsec BF is a good product in a similar price range as a sturdy. If money is no object, I'd look hard af graffunder. If the cannon is closer to your budget, I'd contact frank at zykansafe and ask about his budget line.

What to look for? Not just thick walls but thick steel. Thick walls mean nothing if it's 2" of gypsum board + a sheet of 12ga steel. Personally, I would not buy anything with drywall/gypsum/sheetrock in the walls as I just don't believe it adds much fire protection and it takes up a lot of space. I would avoid anything with gimmicky features - and IMO things like internal door hinges and lots and lots of shiny bolts on the door are gimmicks. I don't really care about things like a nice glossy paint job - your RSC should ideally be placed somewhere few eyes other than your own will see it (if the pizza delivery guy and the cable guy etc etc can all see your gun safe, word will eventually get around).

I went with a mechanical lock and am happy with it. A mechanical lock should in theory last forever. An electric lock is more likely to fail and will eventually need new batteries.

In my very cynical opinion, the gun safe industry is dominated by some very unethical companies. 99% of the RSCs marketed as gun safes out there are designed merely to look imposing to an uninformed retail customer while being as cheap to make as possible (read: thin steel and gypsum board). Don't get me wrong, there is a place in the market for a low end product but in that case it should be marketed as what it is, that's why I say if you only want to pay for somethig with thin steel just to keep the kids out, then go to Costco or Sam's and buy something inexpensive. But what cannon, liberty, ft Knox etc etc do is take that product and put a shiny paint job on it and a 3" thick door 90% of which is sheetrock and carpeting with dozens of thick shiny bolts, then slap a made-up non-standardized non-UL fire rating on it and sell it as something it's not to ill informed retail customers. In the RSC price range, IMO Terry at sturdy safe and frank at ZykanSafe are about the only two honest businessmen in an industry full of snake oil salesmen. Read up here first and come up w/ an idea of your price range then call them and have them explain their options to you.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I like Frank (a1abdj), in part
because he has told people, NOT to buy his value line, for what they want, their money would be better spent at Home Depot beefing up a closet.
But if you want a GOOD safe, I have yet to hear anyone complain here about any deal he or CB900 have arranged, more than a few have raved about how much they have saved them.

 

[heeler]

I agree with a lot what Lebowski said there but I must say Fort Knox has some pretty good safes once you do the factory customizing they allow as they do use plate steel in their doors and can be ordered with thicker outer body steel along with a reasonably thick 10 gauge inner steel wall.
I own an Amsec BF and am quite happy with it.

 

[lebowski]

I have always heard that exterior henges on any safe was a big no no.

On the front door to your house, you most likely have a deadbolt on one side, and hinges on the other ... i.e. the bolt holds the door closed on one side, and the hinges are the only thing holding the other side. On the door to my sturdy safe, there are four live locking bolts on one side and ... wait for it ... four dead bolts on the other. The hinges do not hold the door closed, the steel bolts on both sides do that. The only thing the hinges do is allow the door to swing open. You can saw the hinges off and you have made zero progress towards opening the safe, and a burglar who attacks the hinges does nothing but waste valuable time while your burglar alarm company was calling the police. Internal hinges on a safe serve no function, save to allow you to not be able to open the door as wide as you would be able to with external hinges. They're also not as durable as external hinges in the event you accidentally slam the door open. You want external hinges, and internal hinges are a gimmick designed to fool uninformed customers who don't understand how safes/RSCs are constructed.

In reality how likely would it be for the common B&E criminal to be able to get into something like this safe? I hear people say it can be breached with a crow bar or what not, but in reality how easy is that?

Probably not that likely. But if all you want is that level of protection (and that's fine if that's what you decide), then go to Costco and save yourself 500 bucks. The reason people keep making the gym locker comment is all the brands you have listed effectively sell gym lockers with nice paint jobs and sell them at inflated prices. If you want to buy a gym locker then you should pay gym locker prices.


Like I said, search for "safes" or "safe" or "gunsafes", search for threads with "a1abdj", you can even go through my prior posts as I posted in a number of gun safe threads here when I was researching my own purchase.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Oh and if you do get a heavy real safe, you can take the 300lb door off and move it separately from the body

And some crack head, having bought the snake oil, will spend an hour attacking the hinges, which get him no where.

 

[lebowski]

I agree with a lot what Lebowski said there but I must say Fort Knox has some pretty good safes once you do the factory customizing they allow as they do use plate steel in their doors and can be ordered with thicker outer body steel along with a reasonably thick 10 gauge inner steel wall.
I own an Amsec BF and am quite happy with it.

Ft Knox does have some decent products at the higher end of its line. However, IMO all of Ft Knox safes are overpriced. Their lower end safes do not compare favorably in terms of price vs. protection compared to either Sturdy or Amsec BF, and their higher end safes, while utilizing thicker steel, are pushing up towards the price range of a Graffunder, which is a VASTLY superior product. That is unless Ft Knox has lowered their prices vs. the competition since I was in the market 2 yrs ago, which I doubt.

Ft Knox is probably better than the others, but I still lump them in with them because IMO they are more focused on marketing their products as something better than they actually are rather than focusing on building a good product at a good price and telling the customer exactly what it is.

 

[chevyman097]

I greatly appreciate all the replies that have posted info. Thanks labowski, and A1. I did do some looking through some posts by you and A1 and have found great info. I really appreciate directing me towards both products. They do indeed look much more fortified than the cheaper ones ive looked at.

Sorry if I asked something that has been worn into the ground. I just want to make an educated buy. I dont mean to impose but could i by chance send you a pm a1abdj with a few questions?

 

[Shadow 7D]

Go click www.zykansafe.com
and look at his safes
Frank is pretty good about getting back to you if he is online

 

[lebowski]

I greatly appreciate all the replies that have posted info. Thanks labowski, and A1. I did do some looking through some posts by you and A1 and have found great info. I really appreciate directing me towards both products. They do indeed look much more fortified than the cheaper ones ive looked at.

Sorry if I asked something that has been worn into the ground. I just want to make an educated buy. I dont mean to impose but could i by chance send you a pm a1abdj with a few questions?

No problem ... I don't work in the industry and was in the same boat you were in 2 yrs ago when I bought my Sturdy Safe. I went into it thinking anything of the right size from say Gander or a gun show would be fine ... when I started looking into it I was really disappointed to see how shady the industry is and how much junk is being pushed as high security "safes" (and FWIW, everything discussed in this thread with the exception of Graffunder is not a safe, they're Residential Security Containers).

When I was looking, Frank (a1abdj) was very receptive to PMs and was very helpful with me, he's a source of much of what I know about them. Terry, the owner of Sturdy Safe, was also very helpful - I called and spoke to him for probably over an hour, on everything from safe design and why he builds them the way he does and features to look for, to how they can be compromised, how to move a safe inside my home safely (ended up hiring it out), how to reinforce my floors under the crawl space to reinforce if concerned about weight, to just talking about home security in general ... this type of one on one time for a single customer looking to buy a single RSC, from two business owners, not some screwball salesman at Gander Mt., is quite rare. This is why I like to buy from small, US based businesses when I can ... sadly, most small businesses don't provide this level of customer service.

 

[Ultra]

I was really wanting to keep it 1200 or less. I can spend more...but thats cutting it close. no more than 2 grand.

Deminsions arent a huge issue. Id like it to store at least 36+ guns.

How much are your guns worth?

Recently a friend told me he wanted to buy a safe. He wanted to spend $300. I asked hims how much the Jewelry and other valuables he planed to put in the safe were worth. His answer was $50,000 to $100,000. Needless to say I had a come to Jesus conversation with him...

 

[a1abdj]

Recently a friend told me he wanted to buy a safe. He wanted to spend $300. I asked hims how much the Jewelry and other valuables he planed to put in the safe were worth. His answer was $50,000 to $100,000. Needless to say I had a come to Jesus conversation with him...

You would be shocked if you knew how many people were keeping large sums of cash and valuables in those $200 document safes from Walmart.

I dont mean to impose but could i by chance send you a pm a1abdj with a few questions?

I don't mind at all. You can message me here or e-mail me off of my website. If it's a generic question that won't reduce your security, you're also welcome to post it here.

 

[78tsubaki]

http://www.sturdysafe.com/

 

[Sky]

I did not read all the post, but...I purchased a RedHead safe (with rounded laser cut corners on entry door....not a cheap Chinese knock off!) that was one of the scratched and dented (supposedly) from a place in Dallas. The Safe was 12 or 13 hundred new but I only paid $700 delivered. There is one small scratch or water spot which is hard to find or see and is on the back side next to the wall.

Just a suggestion on the damaged or dented variety... it has been a long time since I purchased mine or I would provide the retailer for you ( acsafes?). Maybe a Google search would bring something up. Also Craigslist has them sometimes but I have not found a deal where I needed to jump.

Friends of mine have the key pad safes and have not heard of any problems. My next safe will have a keypad.

One guy who had a rather large collection had his house broken into while he and the family were at church. His safe was bolted down but they took the whole safe and all gun related things he had in his closet and around the house. He could not believe it! Anything can be had if the BGs know what they are doing. A high speed circular saw blade made for cutting steel will go through most things so a safe is more for the smash and dash type BGs and will mostly not stop professional thieves IMO. The guys who got his stuff had to have some serious equipment to remove his safe. Some people have two safes, one as a sacrificial safe easily seen and one well hidden safe.