Can't buy guns? Make 'em, like they do in the Congo!

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armoredman

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090212/ap_on_re_af/af_congo_making_guns
Rebel attacks fuel gun-making in eastern Congo
By MICHELLE FAUL, Associated Press Writer Michelle Faul, Associated Press Writer – Thu Feb 12, 5:48 pm ET
BANGADI, Congo – The weapons on display are all homemade: menacing-looking hunting knives, lances made of sticks topped with metal spears, long-barrelled shotguns.

For decades, people in this Congolese town have made guns. But the industry has become a roaring business as people in this remote northeastern region arm themselves against the fearsome rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army.

In this town overrun by refugees from attacks on surrounding villages, master forger Jules Zunga has been making guns for nearly 50 years.

In the shade of a mango tree drooping with unripe green fruit, he uses a machete, a knife and a saw to model the gun stock from a piece of wood. As it takes on the familiar shape, he carves a shaft to fit into a pipe that forms the barrel.

The wood comes from the surrounding forest, the metal pipes from a never-completed program to channel water from a nearby river.

Zunga's guns sell for $30 to $40. A second-hand rifle, such as the pre-World War II Browning that hangs on the shoulder of farmer Benoit Kumbongba, costs about $100.

The most difficult part, Zunga says, is forging the trigger mechanism.

"Those young chaps think anyone can do this. But if you get this part wrong, the barrel explodes when you try to shoot, and we have quite a few accidents this way," he said.

Many more accidents occur when people make bullets. A member of the town's self-defense force, which twice has defeated attacking rebels, holds up a hand to show half his second finger blown away.

Joseph Anidauwe, a health worker, says it happened when he was moving sulfur from a matchstick to the bronze end of a bullet.

People use spent cases to make their bullets, collecting the metal from used batteries and chopping them up into pellets. They stuff the pellets into the bullet cases, fill the end with dry grass, slip on the cap and then use sulfur to force the explosion when the bullet exits the gun barrel.

Anidauwe says town residents have become so expert in the craft, "we should just set up our own munitions factory."
The way they make ammunition makes my hair stand on end...
 
A good example of Software, not Hardware.

Willingness to survive has been the reason peoples through out history have come up with means to defend themselves, including making guns.

Good example of Strategy & Tactic-

Bread-n-Butter.
These guns only have to accurate enough, or reliable enough, to allow them to take firearms , ammo, and other equipment from enemies to be better armed.

History is a great teacher....
 
Of the two main rebel groups operating in northern Uganda, the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) has wreaked the most havoc - looting, raping, mutilating and killing numerous residents and abducting countless thousands of children in the name of the religious fanatic, Joseph Kony. He believes that the Holy Spirit has directed him to rule the country according to the 10 Commandments.
 
Hey they beat back two rebel armies, got to give them respect for that. Think they don't have any real access to industrial grade materials so they do the best they can. Plus a lot of them rebels are running around with limited ammo, aging(and poorly taken care of firearms), and mostly machetes and spears. If all you got is a spear do you want to charge some musket toting folks (I wouldn't). Surprised with all those spears and lances none of them got on the ballista and crossbow kick. A good crossbow will give you a hundred yards in range of direct fire and up to four hundred yards of indirect fire. With a crossbow you can hide behind an obstacle and launch bolts on an enemy where you have a pre-ranged kill spot. A dozen bolts falling in a five square foot area on three guys, well you likely will get one kill and couple wounded and then it is a matter of taking their guns.
 
You have to give these people credit. When they're own government and the worthless hand-wringers at the United Nations left them helpless they took maters into to their own hands.

Since our own government doesn't seem too keen about "ordinary people" owning military-style small arms, we might learn from their example.

Congo town mounts own defense against rebels
By MICHELLE FAUL (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
February 12, 2009 6:27 PM EST

BANGADI, Congo - Rebels from the Lord's Resistance Army sent torture victims - including a man whose back was sliced with a machete - to warn the people of this Congolese town they would be next.

The town's three policemen fled and there was no response from the military and U.N. peacekeepers to the increasingly panicked pleas for help. That's when residents realized they were on their own.

"We were sending warnings and begging for help practically every day for two weeks. And nothing happened," said community leader Nicolas Akoyo Efudha. "We finally understood that we were abandoned - in danger and without protection."

So Akoyo called a town meeting and told everyone to bring whatever weapons they had: pre-World War II rifles, homemade shotguns, lances, swords, machetes, hunting knives, bows with sheaths of poisoned arrows.

The women came armed with kitchen knives and log-sized wooden pestles used to pound yams into flour.

Since then, the residents of Bangadi have successfully driven off two attacks by the Ugandan rebels, who have killed at least 900 people in this remote northeastern corner of Congo over the past seven weeks.

News of Bangadi's success - and the lack of military protection - have spurred hundreds of villages to form self-defense groups, according to Avril Benoit, a spokeswoman for Medecins Sans Frontieres.

The ragtag groups are filling a security vacuum as Congo tries to recover from back-to-back civil wars that devastated the Central African nation over nearly a decade.

Aid workers and human rights activists are watching the phenomenon with trepidation. In a part of Congo with dozens of militias and rebels, they fear these self-defense groups could transform into a menacing force.

Congo's army, cobbled together from various rebel groups and the defeated troops of ousted dictator Mobutu Sese Seko, has never been cohesive and has suffered repeated defeats at the hands of the rebels. The United Nations has 17,000 peacekeepers in Congo, but it has been largely ineffective in a country more than twice the size of California and Texas combined.

The Lord's Resistance Army has been waging an insurgency in northern Uganda for more than 20 years, and the conflict spilled over into Congo about five years ago.
Before dawn on Oct. 19, Bangadi became the rebels' target.

They descended first on the former abbey on the outskirts of town, killing its residents.

But as the fighters tried to advance, they were surprised by more than a half-dozen ambushes by residents armed with makeshift weapons, some hiding in ditches. Before the rebels reached the central market, they had been defeated and took flight.

Akoyo said residents counted 43 rebels who came into town. Seven got away and the rest were killed, he said. The civilian toll was 16 dead.

Today, the abbey is abandoned. Survivors, along with thousands of people from surrounding villages, are camped in Bangadi; its population has exploded from 15,000 to 35,000.

About 20 miles (30 kilometers) outside Bangadi, lies evidence of what happens when there is no one to resist an attack by the Lord's Resistance Army: More than a mile (About two kilometers) of huts along a dirt track have been burned to the ground.

For months after the October attack, the rebels steered clear of Bangadi. Then, after a combined military operation by forces from Congo, Uganda and Sudan began in December, aid groups say the rebels began massacring civilians in retaliation.

In coordinated attacks on three towns, the rebels killed hundreds of people in just three days, according to aid workers and the U.N. More than 900 have been killed since Christmas in the region of Haut-Uele, in northeast Congo.

Bangadi residents were particularly alarmed by the story told by the sole survivor of a massacre in a village where rebels locked people into the church, Akoyo said. The rebels saved their bullets and brought the victims out two by two. Some were bludgeoned to death while others had their throats slit with machetes, said the man, who escaped death because he was busy in his field and arrived at the church service late.

Last month, maimed victims of rebel attacks began arriving again in Bangadi. Again, residents sent out urgent calls for help, using the town's sole satellite phone and its high-frequency radio.

There had been no response by Jan. 22, when the rebels struck Bangadi for a second time.

By then, the self-defense group had swelled to 350, including Teke Mbanga, a 20-year-old refugee from Kana village whose parents, 13 siblings and other family members were slaughtered by the rebels.

The townspeople chased the rebels out, pursuing them for more than a half-mile (about a kilometer) until they disappeared into the savannah. There were no civilian casualties and the group even managed to rescue six abducted people.

One man bragged of skinning one of the rebels. Asked if he was alive at the time, he looked sheepishly away.

"It was the people's anger that led to this revenge. We had the bodies of our families scattered about us," said the man, who didn't want his name used for fear of rebel reprisals.

The rebel's body was burned in a public ceremony in the middle of the main road; the site has been marked with a pile of stones topped by a red cross.

On Jan. 24, the army finally sent troops: 175 soldiers came to Bangadi.

Their presence is more of a worry than a reassurance, said Akoyo: The soldiers' rations have run out and they haven't been paid. There's little food at the market because people fear going to their fields. Nearly every day, there are reports of rebel attacks on surrounding villages from refugees who continue to stream in.

"This is a dangerous situation," Akoyo said. "They haven't started yet, but soon, if they don't get provisioned, they'll start requisitioning the little food we have."

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http://my.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20090212/4993bae0_3421_1334520090212105538111
 
Aid workers and human rights activists are watching the phenomenon with trepidation. In a part of Congo with dozens of militias and rebels, they fear these self-defense groups could transform into a menacing force.

So the useless hand wringers and "people who do well by doing good" are upset? Eff 'em. :fire::fire:
 
Aid workers and human rights activists are watching the phenomenon with trepidation. In a part of Congo with dozens of militias and rebels, they fear these self-defense groups could transform into a menacing force.

You don't have to go to the Congo to find such people. There are plenty of them in our own government in Washington D.C. :mad:
 
I wish I could find the link but there was this excellent video about a town in the tribal area of Pakistan where they sell foreign made guns but also manufactured their own firearms from scratch too. The guy beating metal with a hammer over a fire 'forging' his parts stands out in my mind. Where there is a will (and no government to interfere) there is a way.

Sad to say we all know they get used against us.
 
So what exactly do these aid groups expect the villagers to do? Offer up their throats to be slit? Idiots. I don't understand why defending your own life and the lives of your family is wrong. These are the same kind of people that want to take the right to self defense from us, too.
 
Officer's Wife, I agree with you there, makes me want to go find those instructions on making your own black powder again...
Crossbows, great idea, and old truck leaf springs would make great prods for them.
I wish them the best, and also agree that the leftists who left them out to die are rightly worried about thme becoming self reliant and independant, for they will realize they don't need the ones who abandoned them, either. Wanna bet those troops aren't there for thier protection at all?
 
I think they did the best they could with the resources they had. I also notice that both the government and the United Nations not only did not send troops to protect them, they couldn't even truck in or air-drop modern small arms and ammunition so that they would have a chance to defend themselves. :fire: :barf:
 
I wonder if there's a way to slip some real powder and metal working supplies to them?

I applaud what these people are doing, and deplore what those morons have said concerning these same people becoming part of the problem.

Aid workers and human rights activists are watching the phenomenon with trepidation. In a part of Congo with dozens of militias and rebels, they fear these self-defense groups could transform into a menacing force.

Of course they may. They haven't yet, and they seem like good folks, but only time will tell. I happen to think that they just might prove to be good even if they win, but then I tend to be an optimist in such situations. I choose to believe that on the whole we as a species are not a bad bunch of folks.

The fact that they could eventually become what they are fighting is certainly no reason not to support them and their cause, which are, at this point, still just and honorable.

I just can't get my head around how we, as the free nations of the world, can sit by and let innocent people get slaughtered because it's not politically correct to get involved. Personally, I think it would be better to help the good folks before they have their backs against the wall than to wait until they do and then try to disarm them because they might end up reversing the roles. Wait until they get pushed to extremes and they will only have more justification, even if it is only in their own minds, to commit atrocities in retaliation for what has been done against them.

As for making firearms because it's what they can get. That's nothing new. During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan AK47s were being made in back alley machine shops at a rate of several per week in each shop. It only took one or two captured weapons for a pattern and pretty soon the Soviets were facing their own technology. The only thing the insurgents had to do after that was capture ammunition. We sent a lot of weapons to them after a time, but they made a lot of their own as well.

Where there is a will there is a way.
 
is there any other link to these weapons. The link provided shows a small and not very clear picture.

perhaps i missed something.

I am not sure at all about what kind of powders they have.

I am not sure we can compare anything they have to anything we ever knew about, including BP muskets.
 
News of Bangadi's success - and the lack of military protection - have spurred hundreds of villages to form self-defense groups, according to Avril Benoit, a spokeswoman for Medecins Sans Frontieres.

The very type of militia common at the time of our nation's founding.


So Akoyo called a town meeting and told everyone to bring whatever weapons they had: pre-World War II rifles, homemade shotguns, lances, swords, machetes, hunting knives, bows with sheaths of poisoned arrows.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Poison arrows? Ouch. Likely more lethal than even bullets, especialy with poor medical services.

But as the fighters tried to advance, they were surprised by more than a half-dozen ambushes by residents armed with makeshift weapons, some hiding in ditches. Before the rebels reached the central market, they had been defeated and took flight.
A well armed population formed a militia and was able to defeat and further deter attacking forces.
The very purpose behind the right to be well armed and form into militias as done during the time of our nation's founding.

Bangadi residents were particularly alarmed by the story told by the sole survivor of a massacre in a village where rebels locked people into the church, Akoyo said. The rebels saved their bullets and brought the victims out two by two. Some were bludgeoned to death while others had their throats slit with machetes, said the man, who escaped death because he was busy in his field and arrived at the church service late.
Churches throughout the United States frontier had requirements to bring guns to church for just that very reason.
Native Americans would often perform raids when Church services were performed. Everyone predictably going into a building unarmed for hours every week would make them quite vulnerable.
After it was done in towns around our nation it became mandatory to bring arms to church in locations natives were still active.


Aid workers and human rights activists are watching the phenomenon with trepidation. In a part of Congo with dozens of militias and rebels, they fear these self-defense groups could transform into a menacing force.
Yeah they definately need to work harder to limit the flow of small arms. :rolleyes:
I mean all those UN resolutions to curb the proliferation of small arms have certainly stopped violence. After all nobody was butchered or killed before guns existed. Nor did violent men have the advantage against women, the old and the weak.
:rolleyes:
Its not like a million people were primarily hacked apart with machetes in Rwanda.

Before guns its not like thousands of people regularly died in single battles chopping eachother into pieces with blades, smashing in skulls with bludgeons, and even survivors perishing from disease and wounds from even minor injuries afterwards. No the world was so much better, better redouble the efforts to reduce small arms proliferation!

Make no mistake about it, gun control both domestic and international is about control, not stopping crime or even violence. It is about creating a monopoly of effective force in the hands of those working to limit arms held by others. It is about control.
 
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We need to ship 'em some muskets!

Someone needs to find a way to get musket parts from the US into their hands. I mean, we should start a paypal account or something to buy up all those crappy muskets from Cabelas and ship them over there, some "walker" replicas and some muskets would do a whole lot better than what they're making.
 
Someone needs to find a way to get musket parts from the US into their hands. I mean, we should start a paypal account or something to buy up all those crappy muskets from Cabelas and ship them over there, some "walker" replicas and some muskets would do a whole lot better than what they're making.
No we just need the UN and participating nations to stop putting legislation in place designed to limit natural trade in firearms.
Our own government is no better, with many restrictions on exporting arms to foriegn destinations.

Case in point, the huge abuses of ITAR in restricting export of arms. With ITAR originaly intended to allow limits on sensative material like classified information and technology. Never to restrict 100-200 year old common small arms technology.

Pressures from the UN, other nations and even our own government have resulted in similar legislation or policies in nations around the world. If they were inalienable rights as the founders believed you would think citizens outside our borders had them too.
 
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No we just need the UN and participating nations to stop putting legislation in place designed to limit natural trade in firearms.
Our own government is no better, with many restrictions on exporting arms to foriegn destinations.

+1

Muskets,spears and knives against AK-47's. And the UN claims this is the avenue to peace. Which begs the question- is the UN run by half-wits with a bizarre sense of humor or complete idiots that really mean it? And do we really want these people designing our foreign policy?
 
Good for them. Too bad a truckload of SKS rifles couldn't be delivered to people in those situations. Makes genocide and banditry a little harder.

If you want a chilling account of how "effective" the UN is, read "Shake Hands With the Devil" by Romeo Dallaire, UN commander in Rwanda. He was put out on a limb by the NY office and essentially told to do nothing as it would jeopardize the UN's neutrality and offend people.

NEVER take advice from people who don't have as much to lose as you do.
 
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