Canton Ohio in the news again

[Danb1215]

So everyone who isn't an esteemed "officer of the law" is Joe Jackass? Yeah that about sums up every single post you've ever made. Cops can do what they want and everyone else needs to shut up and go to prison. Right?

 

[azmjs]

Wrong

 

[Deanimator]

What else did he do besides hurt people's feelings?

1. False Arrest
2. Aggravated Menacing

 

[Shadow 7D]

Wait, isn't communicating a death threat (esp. while able to carry it out) a felony??
I know if you said that to anybody you have lived with or had sex with it WOULD put you in jail and remove you second amendment rights.

 

[azmjs]

I guess it must be because the officer in question doesn't live with or have sex with the people he stopped while carrying out his duties as a police officer that it didn't go that way, huh.

All those awful felons with their "stop or I'll shoot!"

 

[Shadow 7D]

yer an idiot, a death threat is just that, a Threat to KILL you, I don't know how ohio laws work, but in more than a few states, a person would be MORE than justified in drawing a gun on him.

And holding him for the cops to show up....
who knows how the rest of them are, personally I'd be pointing out that a smelly piece of garbage like him, brings down the WHOLE department.

 

[azmjs]

yer an idiot, a death threat is just that, a Threat to KILL you, I don't know how ohio laws work, but in more than a few states, a person would be MORE than justified in drawing a gun on him.

And holding him for the cops to show up....
who knows how the rest of them are, personally I'd be pointing out that a smelly piece of garbage like him, brings down the WHOLE department.

I don't know how it works wherever you live, but if you get pulled over, and the officer says "don't move or I'll shoot" and then you pull a gun out and point it at him, he'll kill you and that will be the end of it. You won't be "justified," you'll be a would-be cop killer stopped before he could do the vile deed.

At the very least I urge you not to try it.

When an officer places his hand on his gun, much less draws it, while approaching a stopped vehicle and instructs the occupants not to move, he is displaying the threat of deadly force.

 

[Davek1977]

Harless is a criminal, and should be treated as such. I hope he is put on trial and point of fact is made clear to the few who remain in doubt about the criminality of his actions regardless if he is an officer of the law or not. There are those that insist on defending his actions, as disgusting as they were. They will not comprehend that his actions crossed the line from enforcing the law to outright breaking it. hopefully a court decision will open their eyes, for otherwise they may continue to live in denial so deep they actually believe it to be true.

 

[azmjs]

Harless is a criminal, and should be treated as such. I hope he is put on trial and point of fact is made clear to the few who remain in doubt about the criminality of his actions regardless if he is an officer of the law or not. There are those that insist on defending his actions, as disgusting as they were. They will not comprehend that his actions crossed the line from enforcing the law to outright breaking it. hopefully a court decision will open their eyes, for otherwise they may continue to live in denial so deep they actually believe it to be true.

Hopefully people will learn at some point that "innocent until proven guilty" isn't just an empty platitude.

 

[Shadow 7D]

OK, so, have you actually bothered to watch any of the stops

This guy goes much further than 'stop or I'll shoot'
No, he says that he is going to SHOOT the guy (after he is cuffed and disarmed) because he chose to carry a gun LEGALLY...

so how is that any different than any other DEATH THREAT, it's not a warning, it's a DEATH THREAT.

think about it

 

[azmjs]

"f-ing talking to me with a g-d gun, you want me to pull mine and stick it to *your* head?"

Not exactly a death threat. I don't see an "i'm going to kill you for having a CCW" there.

Maybe I missed the part where he said "I'm going to SHOOT you"

No, he says that he is going to SHOOT the guy (after he is cuffed and disarmed) because he chose to carry a gun LEGALLY...

 

[Shadow 7D]

And there comes a time when talking circles is nothing but talking and even the circles are confused

the behavior is neither professional, nor legal, as for the threat, say that to a cop, or a girl friend, and find out what the DA calls it.

The simple fact is, he didn't have a bad day, he has a consistent behavior, and yet, the city still puts him on the streets to terrorize it's citizens. I'm glad you support that. I hope he gets his day in front of a jury to explain his actions and his threats.

 

[azmjs]

It's certainly not professional, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself and my opinion about whether he should continue to be a policeman.

Illegal? I have very strong doubts.

False allegations don't exactly help the cause, do they?

"says he is going to shoot the guy for having a ccw" etc etc.

 

[Shadow 7D]

It was the impression I got, but then I'm not word for wording it, and I only claim to have actually watched 2 of the 3
but then people have been tried for less

 

[azmjs]

I suppose there's something to be said for knowing the facts rather than having impressions, at least where things like this are concerned.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

What else did he do besides hurt people's feelings?

How obtuse can you get? He did far more than hurt peoples feelings.

Multiple times Harless has gone off on people on what should have been routine stops when he discovers they have a legal carry permit and a legal gun. Multiple tapes have show he rants, curses and says "I’ll shoot you in the face ...." and "I should have took two steps back, pulled my Glock .40 and just put 10 bullets in your (expletive) ....".

He shuts a guy up everytime the guy tries to notify that he has a carry permit, then he goes off on a profanity laden rant when he notices the permit in the guy's hand with his driver's license. In the written report Harless claimed the guy failed to notify when the recording shows the guy trying to notify and Harless shutting him up.

I have had a traffic stop where I was carrying and the officer could care less. Tennessee formerly required notify, but decided it is not necessary.

A loose cannon (like Harless evidently is from the dashboard tapes that keep showing up) is a danger. I don't know about Ohio, but states do have laws like this:

Texas State Law: Section 9.31 of the Penal Code:

The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:
(1) If, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses
or attempts to use greater force than necessary to
make the arrest or search; and
(2) When and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect
himself against the peace officer's (or other person's)
use or attempted use of greater force than necessary

Harless may be dancing this side of using or attempting to use force, by saying "I will..." or "I should...". Handgun carry permit class in Tennessee taught us that you cannot use force in self defense against a future threat, only against an imminent threat of death or greivous harm by one with the ability and opportunity to put life or limb in jeopardy now. Harless may just be making idle threats to show his contempt for the concealed carry law by taking it out on folks he catches legally carrying, but that pattern of behavior almost seems calculated to escalate a routine traffic stop into a situation to justify him using force, by putting people in fear that they need to protect themselves from him.

A police officer's job is to keep the peace, not see how much stuff he can provoke just because he does not agree with the concealed carry permit law.

Harless' recorded behavior and obtuse defense of his behavior can only breed contempt for law enforcement.

Are we now to outlaw "stop or I'll shoot" because it might hurt people's feelings?

Edward Garner was shot in the back of the head trying to climb a fence and killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

Shooting merely to stop a fleeing subject has been outlawed in the US since 1985.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I don't know how it works wherever you live, but if you get pulled over, and the officer says "don't move or I'll shoot"

I would hope that would put him/her in the same predicament as Harless...I would hope it would get him/her reprimanded or fired.

They need to have a verifiable reason to shoot just like any citizen. Moving is not a verifiable reason. Going for a gun is.

Police should be held to the same standard as any other legal carrying citizen, when it comes to justified shooting. If a CCW holder would be convicted for shooting someone because they didn't have enough cause, so should a Police officer.

Police aren't above the law, officers like Harless need to be taught that and Police departments around the country need to instill that in their officers. They need to learn that they are PUBLIC SERVANTS. They serve AT THE WILL of the citizens. They are there to protect citizens, not bully them. It is sad that situations like this one with Harless and the Philidelphia open carry incident a while back have higher ups in police departments defending those actions or pretending they didn't know there was a problem. It is time to start policing the police in those localities.

Maybe I missed the part where he said "I'm going to SHOOT you"

Apparently you did...

Death threat 1
"Right now that S- that you pulled, I could blast you in the mouth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc#t=8m15s

death threat 2
"I am so close to caving yoru GD head in"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc#t=8m48s

death threat 3
"you know what I should have done, I tell you what I should have done, as soon as I saw your gun I should have taken 2 steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and just put 10 bellets in your A- and let you drop. He would have been a nice witness as I executed you"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc#t=13m28s

If you don't consider those death threats...I am not sure you would consider anything beyond actually putting a bullet in someone a death threat...

 

[drcook]

This thread is turning into a P*siing match again and you are not going to convince the guy anyway you argue that Harless did anything wrong. So do all of us a favor and don't add fuel to the fire. Please keep this thread a discussion of the incident and how it affects William Bartlett and how it will possibly influence the change or repeal of Ohio's notify law.

But to reiterate:

1. there are now 3 videos in the public domain.

2. in all 3 videos Harless threatened execution and his partner stayed quiet.

3. in the Bartlett video, there is now a newspaper report that the partner stated the dashcam was turned off

4. on the Bartlett stop dashcam Harless stated he would fake evidence and file a false police report

5. in a channel 5 interview, the police chief came across as a doofus, either condoning the actions or simply a clueless idiot who shouldn't be in the position he is in

6. in the 3rd video, the news folks reported that Harless did an unjustified traffic stop just to harass a guy that he had an issue with years before

7. according to the lawyer represent Bartlett (posted on OFCC when the story broke) the city of Canton offered to drop the charges if Bartlett agreed to not sue the city.

8. help keep pressure on the city of Canton, because it is obvious nothing would have come of this except for some poor guy railroaded without all the negative publicity being generated

 

[HOOfan_1]

6. in the 3rd video, the news folks reported that Harless did an unjustified traffic stop just to harass a guy that he had an issue with years before

He did state in the original video that every time he saw that car he was going to stop it and take him to jail.

 

[bigfatdave]

I am struck by how he parks his car cross-wise, thereby preventing the dash-cam from showing anything at all.
Sure looks pre-planned.

He has a habit of muffling his microphone as well.
And previous reprimands for not turning on the dash-cam.

An obvious pattern, just from the few videos that made it to the public.

He did state in the original video that every time he saw that car he was going to stop it and take him to jail.

And in one of the other videos, that's exactly what he was doing with someone he'd previously arrested.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Well we've managed to veer from the legal specifics and there really isn't much else to discuss at the moment.

Let's stop for now and see what happens after this goes through the system but we're not accomplishing much in this one.