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Cap and ball concealed carry?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by troy fairweather, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Anyone conceal carry any bp revolvers, things around my parts are stating to get crazy. people about started a riot today in shoprite. would a short barrel rem 1858 army would work.
     
  2. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    hmmm...

    I mean... it was the best choice you could get back in 1858...

    But I would carry a cartridge gun if I had it.

    Reliability is a concern with BP, IMO.
     
  3. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    I would agree that the .44 1858 Rem Sheriff style is probably the "best" ball and cap carry gun. The compact .31 and .36 platforms don't have a lot of performance, but are far better than "Please don't hurt me".
     
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  4. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Reason asking what if you could not carry a cartridge gun. My county makes it almost impossible to get a pistol permit.
     
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  5. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    New York or Cali?

    I mean......I guess it would work but black powder isn't a reliable....anything really. I would carry a knife and pepper spray at that point
     
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  6. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    New York.
     
  7. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Of the BP revolvers, the Remington is a fine choice, IMO.

    And, while I would never encourage you to do anything illegal (we don't do that here on THR), if things are actually getting that bad... Then I would argue that your county's laws have failed you.

    During fire evacuation of my area a year ago, lots of folks "forgot" about the permit requirement.

    Remember, I wouldn't encourage you to do anything illegal.
     
  8. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    No nothing illegal more hypothetical. Even a rifle in the car is a pain, since it's supposed to be in a locked case and ammo in a different case.
     
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  9. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    In news York you can own a bp pistol but can't own any thing to shoot the gun, unless it's on a pistol permit. Are judges here are anti gun and have said publicly they will not sign pistol permits. Dmv shut down today when I was there.
     
  10. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    The 1858 is a little large for some people, but quite effective for sure.

    The 1862 Police, loaded with a short for caliber bullet with a large meplat and an energetic powder gets you to .380 ACP performance levels one fellow loaded a 100 grn bullet and 20 grns of 3F Olde E and reported an average of 180 ft/lbs, though this was from a larger .36 with a 7.5” barrel (1851 or 1861).

    My NMA and ROA have shown themselves to work flawlessly when I use Rem #10’s.
     
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  11. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    Stay out of Shoprite. Problem solved.
     
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  12. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    It's all over not just shoprite.
     
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  13. Eyrie G. Dogg

    Eyrie G. Dogg Member

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    If one can't CC a modern firearm for a given jurisdiction then a BP gun will also be prohibited. Besides, why impose that sort of limitation on yourself. I love BP revolvers but if that's all ya got then it's time to invest in a modern weapon, A shoot-out in Shoprite won't be like posting on the Highroad.
     
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  14. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    In Europe, where firearms regulation is insane and the mass influx of migrants in recent years has led to a deteriorating security situation in many locales, there are some hardy souls cc'ing cap and ball revolvers. I am on a forum where several such folks post. Leaving aside irrelevant European regulations, I will note that in NYS, a cap and ball revolver capable of being fired is a handgun, regulated the same as a centerfire revolver or pistol. That being the case, there are no circumstances in which I would rather be armed with a cap and ball revolver than a centerfire handgun.

    If, for some unfathomable reason, one were to CC a CnB revolver, the longest possible barrel length is important given the relationship between BP and velocity. The shorty barrel 'belly gun' looks cool, but 140 grs / 600 fps at 7 yards ? The most important issue is cap retention and ignition. Tight fitting caps with those little plastic retainers of cut rubber or plastic tubing will be critical, as is a tight fitting ball. IMO, a top strap revolver - 1858 or R&S - would be better than an open top Colt.
     
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  15. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Here a unloaded bp gun is a antique if loaded it's a pistol. Remember this it just for fun guys.
     
  16. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Hmm... I'd agree with you where stock revolvers are concerned. Guns which have been properly worked over, however, are actually pretty reliable. My latest custom '51 Navy has had about 500 rounds through it so far and has been utterly reliable.
     
  17. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Ya I would agree, the only thing could think of is it the caps fell off.
     
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  18. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Having said that, though, I would still be more comfortable with just about any other gun!
     
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  19. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Sure but have you carried it for long times? How about concealed?

    Powder gets wet, caps fall off......not great really
     
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  20. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Powder doesn't get wet if the caps don't fall off, and caps don't fall off if they're the right caps on the right cones.
     
  21. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Your original post didn't sound like "just for fun". I wouldn't carry a gun in NY but that is moot as I won't go to NY. IL is bad enough, but I can and do carry here. Anything from a Kimber Micro to a ProCarry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  22. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    If you are getting that dismal of a velocity then you are using the wrong powder.

    I also wouldn’t opt for a ball, unless that’s all I had. I created a 195 grn WFN bullet that’s only 0.460” long that doesn’t take up powder capacity. With my NMA’s accurate charge of 30 grns 3F I’m in the .45 ACP realm of performance, but I use Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 powders. Even with a heavier projectile I’m well above 600 FPS.

    But an old military video showing a ball shot from an 1860 Army with barely more than 600 FPS went through the ballistics gel and punched through the bone, which surprised me.
     
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  23. Eyrie G. Dogg

    Eyrie G. Dogg Member

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    It's probably a good idea to not bring a 19th Century firearm to a 21st Century gunfight. That said, I still enjoy shooting C&B revolvers better than anything else I own.

    I've been doing CC in Cali since I was 23 (that's been awhile by now) and never once considered a C&B for that purpose. On the other hand, I walk my forested rural property day and night with an 1860 or a Remington. We have cougar here and with one of those guns on my belt I ain't scert a none of them.
     
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  24. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    At one time at least some members of this board concluded that it's best for a person to carry the type and model of gun that they're most comfortable shooting with the highest degree of accuracy.
    A black powder revolver is essentially no different than any other single action revolver.
    I owned a single action center fire revolver that would jam due to the cartridge backing out of the chamber which could block the cylinder from moving.
    Any gun is capable of misfiring or jamming whether it's antique or modern.
    If a gun is well prepared for carry then it's up to the owner to decide what they are most comfortable and confident carrying.
    I think that a person could always carry one in a fanny pack worn on their belly or in their favorite position around their waist and no one would be the wiser.
    A person could store it in the trunk when they're driving.

    This reminds me of Bernhard Goetz, the NY subway vigilante.
    The gun saved his life and all that he was convicted of was carrying a pistol without a permit.
    Oh, and a $43 million civil judgement against him. --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  25. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    No, if you are getting more than that out of a belly gun, you are using the wrong powder, and probably using it the wrong way.

    A 2-3" barrel? 600 fps. And using a conical isn't going to make it any better.
     
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