Cap and ball revolver newbie

[hawg]

That brings up anything the question. I took the barrel and cylinder off yesterday after shooting and cleaned them real good then put a touch of coconut oil all over the outside and a little bore butter in the bore like I do with my rifle. For the chambers I just washed em out real good and dried them. I figured it was best to keep the chambers dry. Your saying I need to take apart the whole rest of the thing too?

No you don't need to take it completely apart every time. I tear mine down once a year or so.

 

[Appalachiannative]

I shot this group plus two soda cans on my last cylinder yesterday using 30 grains of goex 3f. It definitely out performed my powder which I'm still perfecting.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Try 20-25 grains of powder. Your groups will shrink and you will have fewer problems with cap fragments being blown back. And your can of powder will last longer.

I'll be sure to try that with goex but with my homemade powder that would make it a pop gun

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

As to the cleaning you're going to hear from folks that strip em down every time and those that don't. I get a bit OCD about my revolvers so before I learned about packing the innards with hi temp wheel bearing grease I would pull them completely down and clean everything. I think if you're in a humid climate it becomes a bit more necessary. Having an action shield really cuts down on the stuff that gets into the works.

 

[hawg]

I think if you're in a humid climate it becomes a bit more necessary. Having an action shield really cuts down on the stuff that gets into the works.

I live in MS. It doesn't get much more humid than here. I tried the grease bit but it made cleaning a lot harder and messier when I did get around to cleaning them. No more just soap and water.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I dont detail strip my guns every time i shoot. Whether i pack them with grease or not.

It honestly depends on how much i shoot them. But usually around ever 5th outing.

I tried the grease method out to see why Mike was so adament about it... Well.... He was right!!!! Not only does it keep the gunk out of my action parts it also doubles as making the action smooth as butter.

When it comes time to detail strip when packed with grease i just use some q tips to take out most of the grease before i start to disassemble the action, then a quick wipe off with a old shirt patch and im back in action.

Grease packing is like
A action job in a jar

I can get down with that!

 

[Miguel Loco]

I always go over everything with Ballistol. It'll prevent any rust from forming anywhere it's used. It's not super cheap, but it's mixed with water up to 90%.....is it goes a very long way.

I usually do a complete teardown, but it's not really necessary. It stays pretty clean in there. I just enjoy it.....

 

[JamesSh@@ter]

I have had one chain fire and that was when I was using prelude felt wads. I believe the main reason for chain fire is poor powder management. With the lubed felt wads an oily film was on the face of the cylinder. Powder would stick to it. I believe the excess powder on the cylinder ignited and set off the other cylinder. I can’t prove that. I no longer use lubed felt wads. I have changed my loading style. Powder, cardboard wad made from cereal boxes, a small amount of soy wax, then the ball. After the cardboard wad is inserted in the cylinder and rammed down I blow on the cylinder to remove any extra powder, then add the soy wax. I have not had a chain fire since changing to this system.

I made this out of an old turkey baster. Works good for keeping the cylinder face clean. It goes down in about 1/2" so keeps all the powder deep in the cylinder. My main reason for making the funnel was my brand of powder measure doesn't have a funnel and spilled power all over.

 

[Appalachiannative]

I made this out of an old turkey baster. Works good for keeping the cylinder face clean. It goes down in about 1/2" so keeps all the powder deep in the cylinder. My main reason for making the funnel was my brand of powder measure doesn't have a funnel and spilled power all over.

My powder measure came with a bunch of muzzleloader stuff from the basement if an old house and was included with a washer and dryer as payment for my services as a mover. It's old and made of tarnished brass and features no funnel. I'll definitely make me something like that

 

[hawg]

My powder measure came with a bunch of muzzleloader stuff from the basement if an old house and was included with a washer and dryer as payment for my services as a mover. It's old and made of tarnished brass and features no funnel. I'll definitely make me something like that

Pics?

 

[Appalachiannative]

Pics?

Of the powder measure? I doubt it's anything special. Probably just a dirty tarnished mass produced thing but I'll take a pic of it tomorrow if you want to see it

 

[Appalachiannative]

Pics?

there that's what I measure with for everything black powder. Came with some long gone fellas possibles bags. One made of leather, filled with mouse nests, two half empty cans of goex and about 150 hand cast .490 balls. the was other made from what used to be a bank deposit bag made of faux leather with a zipper. It contained some hand cast zink coated conical bullets, a lip balm container stuffed full of home made lube, this powder measure, and two ball starters one made of wood the other imitation antler

 

[hawg]

I've got one of those somewhere. I never had any problems with it. I usually just use my rifle measure for everything.

 

[Appalachiannative]

I've got one of those somewhere. I never had any problems with it. I usually just use my rifle measure for everything.

Yea I just wish it had a funnel. When I got my first black powder gun. My dad made me some measures that weigh out 80 grains or 120 grains. Each one just does the one amount. just tubes that have written on them the amount they will hold reasonably full. They are good for convenience. He made them out of pieces of metal bed frame with one end plugged up using epoxy. He even cut me some little corks to fit in them so I could carry pre measured charges. These will always be special to me I suppose

 

[gtrgy888]

Yea I've heard of that. How likely is that to even happen? Anyone ever personally witnessed a chain fire? I've had a hang fire once so bad that my rifle went off a full three seconds after the cap. Scared the britches off me

My one and only chain fire was with a .36 loaded with conicals and homemade caps. They can kick off from either direction due to the same cause: incomplete sealing by the cap end or ball end. Bad caps and worn out chamber mouths are usually the culprits. The chainfire did no damage whatsoever. I later chronographed .380 lead roundball (since I used up all my conicals) with 21 grains of 777 both with and without the barrel. With the barrel attached, that load will give a mean of 1117.3 feet per second, or 221 foot pounds energy. With the barrel removed, that same loading only generated 563 fps, or 58 fpe, which is probably not as much force as loading the ball with the lever in the first place. In other words, a chainfire that goes off alongside the gun packs about 1/4 of the force as a ball that goes through the whole barrel.

One caveat that should demand a healthy respect for the phenomenon: This .36 Navy had enough space alongside the barrel for a projectile to neatly exit the gun. However, my .44 1860 does NOT have that clearance, and a chainfire with a heavy 220 grain slug that cannot exit the chamber will in all likelihood grenade the gun. Play with these guns at your own risk and respect them for the weapons they are. And use quality caps and inspect the cylinder chamber mouths to ensure an even swage on the lead.

 

[woodnbow]

My one and only chain fire was with a .36 loaded with conicals and homemade caps. They can kick off from either direction due to the same cause: incomplete sealing by the cap end or ball end. Bad caps and worn out chamber mouths are usually the culprits. The chainfire did no damage whatsoever. I later chronographed .380 lead roundball (since I used up all my conicals) with 21 grains of 777 both with and without the barrel. With the barrel attached, that load will give a mean of 1117.3 feet per second, or 221 foot pounds energy. With the barrel removed, that same loading only generated 563 fps, or 58 fpe, which is probably not as much force as loading the ball with the lever in the first place. In other words, a chainfire that goes off alongside the gun packs about 1/3 of the force as a ball that goes through the whole barrel.

One caveat that should demand a healthy respect for the phenomenon. This .36 Navy had enough space alongside the barrel for a projectile to neatly exit the gun. However, my .44 1860 does NOT have that clearance, and a chainfire with a heavy 220 grain slug that cannot exit the chamber will in all likelihood grenade the gun. Play with these guns at your own risk and respect them for the weapons they are. And use quality caps and inspect the cylinder chamber mouths to ensure an even swage on the lead.

Good post. I’ve seen a chain fire from an original 1860 and a replica both. (Not my guns and I wasn’t shooting them) both left a smear of lead on the side of the barrel. In the instance of the original Colt four chambers fired, a ball ticked the wedge and another hit the loading ram. The replica Colt had two chambers light off, the ball in the chamber immediately adjacent the one in battery hit the wedge and left lead on the wedge and barrel. Neither grenaded, although the original Colt shooter was very excited by the event and to my knowledge has never fired that gun again. He was shooting 451” ball and they were a very loose fit.
I mostly shoot .457” bullets from 195 to 245 grains (chambers are all reamed to .456”) and use Remington #10s. The caps should easily slide on all the way, grip the cones snugly and NOT require dowels or heavy handed techniques to seat them. I’ve had one chain fire in over sixty years of shooting cap and ball revolvers. (Pietta Shooters model, .457” ball in the .456” chambers, I switched to .465” ball for that gun and the problem was never repeated.)

 

[hawg]

I bought my first bp revolver at the ripe old age of 12. A Rigarmi .44 Remington. I didn't know squat about C&B revolvers. The guy at the shop that sold it to me didn't know much more. Anyway I had chain fire after chain fire on all six chambers until I figured out putting a drop of oil on top of the balls stopped them. None of them ever hurt the gun. The only one that has any pressure behind it is the one that goes down the bore. After having a chain fire over water I learned the rest of the balls only go a few yards and drop. I still have that old gun and have done some experimenting with it. My guess is the chambers are a tad out of round. It will shave a nice ring but if I don't use over ball lube or a lubed wad it will chain every time. I can leave all the caps off except the one in line with the bore and it won't chain as long as I use lubed wads or over ball lube, no matter how many times I try.

 

[woodnbow]

I bought my first bp revolver at the ripe old age of 12. A Rigarmi .44 Remington. I didn't know squat about C&B revolvers. The guy at the shop that sold it to me didn't know much more. Anyway I had chain fire after chain fire on all six chambers until I figured out putting a drop of oil on top of the balls stopped them. None of them ever hurt the gun. The only one that has any pressure behind it is the one that goes down the bore. After having a chain fire over water I learned the rest of the balls only go a few yards and drop. I still have that old gun and have done some experimenting with it. My guess is the chambers are a tad out of round. It will shave a nice ring but if I don't use over ball lube or a lubed wad it will chain every time. I can leave all the caps off except the one in line with the bore and it won't chain as long as I use lubed wads or over ball lube, no matter how many times I try.

I tried to induce a chain fire by leaving caps off of the adjacent chambers too. Nothing doing. My bullets are lubed and at least .001” oversize and do not allow chain fires.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I tried to induce a chain fire by leaving caps off of the adjacent chambers too. Nothing doing. My bullets are lubed and at least .001” oversize and do not allow chain fires.

Ive heard it repeated a thousand times that chain fires occur at the nipple end of the cylinder from poorly fitting caps. I still firmly believe they occur from the front of the cylinder at the chamber.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Ive heard it repeated a thousand times that chain fires occur at the nipple end of the cylinder from poorly fitting caps. I still firmly believe they occur from the front of the cylinder at the chamber.

I seen a guy on YouTube who said he rammed balls with no powder then took the cylinder off and pulled the nipples off then sat in darkness and shined a bore light up through the chambers and found 3 of 6 chambers shown a sliver of light around the ball thus proving the chambers to be "out of round" this makes the most sense to me as far as the subject goes for how these thing occur

 

[44 Dave]

Over the 60 years of cap and ball revolver shooting, have had several chain fires. the last one was from a set of nipples that were to long, the cap against the recoil shield set it off down the side of the barrel. I had to shoot it again before I figured it out The earlier occasions were poor fitting balls cast using one of those brass molds from a cased set. Then it was several at a time, but powder burning backwards didn't seem to do much more than make a lot of "smoke" to clean off.

 

[gtrgy888]

Ive heard it repeated a thousand times that chain fires occur at the nipple end of the cylinder from poorly fitting caps. I still firmly believe they occur from the front of the cylinder at the chamber.

In my case, I was fooling around with homemade caps that were only partway sealing the cones. I heard a pop BOOM BOOM, like a machine gun burst and inspected the gun to find the adjacent chamber to the left had no cap and no ball. The delayed ignition indicated to me that the caps were the unusual part of the loading process. Conicals are long enough that it made the front end a less likely culprit in this case.

 

[JamesSh@@ter]

I tried to induce a chain fire by leaving caps off of the adjacent chambers too. Nothing doing. My bullets are lubed and at least .001” oversize and do not allow chain fires.

That makes sense, seen adjacent chamber caps left off on youtube before and no chain fire. But that made me wonder if a loose cap would let a spark in and fire that out of battery cap. I'm probably overthinking something that would be hard to prove.

 

[woodnbow]

That makes sense, seen adjacent chamber caps left off on youtube before and no chain fire. But that made me wonder if a loose cap would let a spark in and fire that out of battery cap. I'm probably overthinking something that would be hard to prove.

Hard to prove… may be the one rule which holds true with respect to chain fire. I know how to prevent them, that’s about it.

 

[hawg]

That makes sense, seen adjacent chamber caps left off on youtube before and no chain fire. But that made me wonder if a loose cap would let a spark in and fire that out of battery cap. I'm probably overthinking something that would be hard to prove.

If that was the case you'd see more chain fires from pinch fit caps.