Carjacking

[eb in oregon]

If there's a closed window between me and the knife I'm just going to drive away

And that's your right. Some people would rather scare the daylights out of a thug and possibly let him/her ponder their future.

 

[The Night Rider]

And that's your right. Some people would rather scare the daylights out of a thug and possibly let him/her ponder their future.

Every time something like this comes up I ask myself "How would I justify my actions to the District Attorney?"

I guess I'd have to ask myself if a reasonable man would feel that he was in imminent danger of losing his life or suffering grievous bodily harm from a guy who is on the other side of a closed window and a locked door and waving a knife around especially when that reasonable man has the ability to remove himself from the situation.

 

[eb in oregon]

Every time something like this comes up I ask myself "How would I justify my actions to the District Attorney?"

I guess I'd have to ask myself if a reasonable man would feel that he was in imminent danger of losing his life or suffering grievous bodily harm from a guy who is on the other side of a closed window and a locked door and waving a knife around especially when that reasonable man has the ability to remove himself form the situation.

When a person displays a firearm to a thug attempting to rob or maim them with a weapon that is perfectly legal. And if that person doesn't shoot them there is nothing to explain to the District Attorney. I'll also point out that demonstrating you are armed which causes the thug to run like a rabbit, you have "removed" yourself from the situation. You do your thing pal and the rest of us will do the same.

 

[Kleanbore]

Every time something like this comes up I ask myself "How would I justify my actions to the District Attorney?"

Once a trial begins, the DA will not care about your explanation. If you takes the stand, you will be answering questions in direct and cross examination, and the jury, or the judge in the case of a bench trial, will consider your responses along with other evidence.

I guess I'd have to ask myself if a reasonable man would feel that he was in imminent danger of losing his life or suffering grievous bodily harm from a guy who is on the other side of a closed window and a locked door and waving a knife around...

And whether he would have a basis for believing that the display or use of a weapon had been immediately necessary.

 

[The Night Rider]

Once a trial begins, the DA will not care about your explanation. If you takes the stand, you will be answering questions in direct and cross examination, and the jury, or the judge in the case of a bench trial, will consider your responses along with other evidence.

And whether he would have a basis for believing that the display or use of a weapon had been immediately necessary.

I think you're kind of missing my point there bro.

If I don't pull a gun on somebody who's waving a knife at me from the other side of a locked door and closed window, if I instead simply drive away, I won't have to worry about justifying it to the cops or the prosecuting attorney or the DA.

IOW drawing on somebody who isn't really a threat for the sole purpose of "scaring the pants off them" is a really stupid thing to do

 

[Kleanbore]

I think you're kind of missing my point there bro.

No--just expanding on it.

 

[eb in oregon]

I think you're kind of missing my point there bro.

If I don't pull a gun on somebody who's waving a knife at me from the other side of a locked door and closed window, if I instead simply drive away, I won't have to worry about justifying it to the cops or the prosecuting attorney or the DA.

IOW drawing on somebody who isn't really a threat for the sole purpose of "scaring the pants off them" is a really stupid thing to do

You do what you gotta do friend, and the rest of us free thinking adults will do the same.

 

[Kleanbore]

One may be able to convince others that a man displaying a knife on the outside of a locked car had the ability, and the opportunity to harm the driver, and that the driver had been in jeopardy--or not. That's what it would take to justify the defensive display of a firearm.

The prosecution, with their unlimited resources, would would bring in expert witnesses who would, of course, fail to break in, and the defense would have to have their high-cost witnesses demonstrate otherwise.

That's before the question of preclusion is addressed.

I don't know any free thinking adults who would be likely to take that fork in the road.

 

[eb in oregon]

"The prosecution, with their unlimited resources, would would bring in expert witnesses who would, of course, fail to break in, and the defense would have to have their high-cost witnesses demonstrate otherwise."

If the only witnesses would be the guy with the knife and the two people in the car, who are the more credible witnesses? Courtroom balderdash be damned. Playing mind games with oneself is not always conducive to rational and logical thought. And yet no one has been shot. Simply been caused to soil their pants.

 

[Jeff White]

Courtroom balderdash be damned.

Courtroom balderdash aside, I doubt you're going to get a jury anywhere to agree that a person standing outside of the closed on your vehicle with a knife presents a reasonable threat of death or great bodily harm to someone who is simply able to drive away.

When a person displays a firearm to a thug attempting to rob or maim them with a weapon that is perfectly legal.

Well now, you've put yourself in a he said/she said situation if the "thug" trying to rob or main you is on the other side of the safety glass and you have the ability to drive away. "Thug" pulls out his cell phone and calls 911 and says; "I was standing at the stoplight asking for handouts so I can buy formula for the baby and this nut case pulls a gun and points it at me" then gives a description of you and your vehicle. When you're proned out on the pavement being arrested for felony assault you can explain that he was really trying to car jack you. Maybe you'll be lucky and there will be video from a nearby business that will corroborate your story. In the meantime you've made a contribution to some criminal defense attorney's supercar fund.

 

[Blue Jays]

A dirtbag approaches my locked car with a knife, my first thought is to point the car in an open direction and push on the gas pedal. This is also the exact reason why one leaves plenty of room between your vehicle and the vehicle ahead of you!

 

[The Night Rider]

"The prosecution, with their unlimited resources, would would bring in expert witnesses who would, of course, fail to break in, and the defense would have to have their high-cost witnesses demonstrate otherwise."

If the only witnesses would be the guy with the knife and the two people in the car, who are the more credible witnesses? Courtroom balderdash be damned. Playing mind games with oneself is not always conducive to rational and logical thought. And yet no one has been shot. Simply been caused to soil their pants.

I mean, I'm sorry dude but (assuming this whole story even ever happened) pointing a gun at somebody who isn't really a threat to you just to "scare the pants off them" is a really bad idea.

It's a crime in most jurisdictions and you're just setting yourself up for a bunch of unnecessary hassles.

You do you Boo

 

[eb in oregon]

"Courtroom balderdash aside, I doubt you're going to get a jury anywhere to agree that a person standing outside of the closed on your vehicle with a knife presents a reasonable threat of death or great bodily harm to someone who is simply able to drive away."

No one has been shot, does that ring a bell? It should.

 

[eb in oregon]

The prosecution, with their unlimited resources, would would bring in expert witnesses who would, of course, fail to break in, and the defense would have to have their high-cost witnesses demonstrate otherwise.

I mean, I'm sorry dude but (assuming this whole story even ever happened) pointing a gun at somebody who isn't really a threat to you just to "scare the pants off them" is a really bad idea.

It's a crime in most jurisdictions and you're just setting yourself up for a bunch of unnecessary hassles.

You do you Boo

 

[Kleanbore]

It's a crime in most jurisdictions

Assault, in the common law definition, and aggravated assault today when a gun is involved. What used to be classified as attempted murder is classified as aggravated murder in most jurisdictions today.

No one has been shot, does that ring a bell? It should.

Nope.

It is clear that many people have a whole lot of learning to do.

 

[The Night Rider]

No one has been shot, does that ring a bell? It should.

I'm not trying to be a jerk Bro but threatening someone with a firearm (assuming it's not justified which isn't your decision to make) is a crime in most jurisdictions.

That is what people are trying to explain to you.

Your buddy got away with it but it wasn't the smartest thing he ever did.

 

[eb in oregon]

"I'm not trying to be a jerk Bro but threatening someone with a firearm (assuming it's not justified which isn't your decision to make) is a crime in most jurisdictions."

And I'm not sure what planet you're from but displaying a firearm to a person threatening you with a knife is perfectly legal in Oregon.

And the window makes no freaking difference.

 

[Blue Jays]

All we need to further erode our rights is for random bystanders to capture video of people holding guns up to their side windows before zooming away into the distance. The other reality is that in a well-coordinated actual carjacking attempt…it is the VEHICLE itself that is easily the most formidable weapon in the quiver.

 

[eb in oregon]

All we need to further erode our rights is for random bystanders to capture video of people holding guns up to their side windows before zooming away into the distance. The other reality is that in a well-coordinated actual carjacking attempt…it is the VEHICLE itself that is easily the most formidable weapon in the quiver.

Wow, simply wow.

 

[The Night Rider]

And I'm not sure what planet you're from but displaying a firearm to a person threatening you with a knife is perfectly legal in Oregon.

That's what people have been trying to explain to you.

The guy "threatening" you with a knife doesn't have any way to carry out his threat. You are safe inside your car and you have ample opportunity to drive away.

So it's probably (there's no accounting for juries) not going to be legal.

 

[Jeff White]

No one has been shot, does that ring a bell? It should.

Completely immaterial. You cannot point a gun at someone unless you are in fear of imminent bodily harm or death. Locked safely in your automobile behind safety glass when your “assailant” is armed with a knife does not fit any definition of imminent danger. Your “assailant” will have to break through the glass to harm you.

By pointing your gun at the “assailant” you are committing the crime of Aggravated Assault. It might be under a different title in other jurisdictions but it’s a felony. While your “assailant” can’t get to you with his knife without taking other actions, you can shoot him through the glass.

I’m sure it’s legal to point a gun at someone threatening you with a knife in Oregon, but unless that person can actually stab you with the knife he’s not threatening you with it. Would you expect to point a gun at an animal in the zoo who charged the glass enclosure and be able to successfully claim you were defending yourself after the zookeeper called the police?

 

[Blue Jays]

"…Wow, simply wow…"

Unnecessarily waving a gun around will get the gun waver noticed. People will call 9-1-1 to report it.
If the police receive several calls with folks similarly describing someone brandishing a firearm, it will not be a pleasant roadside stop. It might involve several police cruisers. It might involve getting yanked out of a car and laying face-down in the gravel.

Or…one could opt to just simply drive away and call 9-1-1 to report the knife wielder, where knife wielder is located, accurate description of clothes he/she is wearing, plus notable physical features. No gun needed.

 

[eb in oregon]

I'm sorry , I didn't realize you were a lawyer licensed in the state of Oregon and that you are familiar with that states laws.

It seems "The High Road" is going the way of Fakebook, don't debate and exchange different opinions, attack others because you can. Which seems to include the opinions of moderators.

"Would you expect to point a gun at an animal in the zoo who charged the glass enclosure and be able to successfully claim you were defending yourself after the zookeeper called the police?"

That's not really the same thing is it? Can the animal open the door? Can it bash the window and break it? Bad analogy.

And then let's consider the glass for an animal enclosure is, what, three of four times the thickness of an automobile window, and will not shatter when being struck with the butt of a knife? Yes, we'll not consider that.

 

[Jeff White]

That's not really the same thing is it? Can the animal open the door? Can it bash the window and break it? Bad analogy.

You can drive away and remove yourself from the situation. You may think it’s funny or simply good public policy to wave your firearm at someone who is not a threat. But it happens to be illegal in every jurisdiction in this country.

You completely ignored my point about explaining to the police while you are face down on the ground that the person who called 911 because you pointed your gun at him was really threatening you with a knife.

How are you going to prove that’s what really happened? Who do you think is going to believe that you were in fear of your life while you were surrounded by 2500 pounds of steel and glass that you could drive away in? Especially after you posted this:

And that's your right. Some people would rather scare the daylights out of a thug and possibly let him/her ponder their future.

You just admitted in a public forum where it will be searchable forever that your real intent was to scare the “thug”. That post is going to cut into your story that you were in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

It’s standard procedure to look at the internet postings of a suspect in a criminal investigation. It was SOP several years ago when I retired and social media wasn’t what it is now.

You completely undercut your argument here that being in your vehicle wasn’t protection. That post make you seem like you are looking for a reason to point your weapon at someone for some reason.

 

[Robert]

I'm sorry , I didn't realize you were a lawyer licensed in the state of Oregon and that you are familiar with that states laws.

Are you? Because what you described borders on felony menacing. But then I'm only familiar with the laws here in Colorado.

It seems "The High Road" is going the way of Fakebook, don't debate and exchange different opinions, attack others because you can. Which seems to include the opinions of moderators.

If you were actually interested in debate or discussing the event with anything other than I'm right and everyone else is wrong then maybe you'd have a point. But several members have tried to explain their position only to be met with argumentative shouting.

Choosing to do anything other than simply drive away, alert the police , or a combination of both, is simply looking for trouble. And THR will not advocate for that kind of behavior. Do what you want with your life, it's yours. But THR will not tolerate fool hardy Walter Middy-esk behavior.