Carry ammo at 20yds

[nugi]

I've been trying out several different brands and types of ammo in my carry gun. Shooting at 20yds for a couple reasons: I think it shows up more drastically what I'm doing wrong, accuracy at longer distance can only help accuracy at closer distance, and if we're carrying to prepare for the unforeseen, 20yds seems like it could easily fall within the unforeseen.

What it's shown me is that between me and the gun we really do not do well with certain ammo types. I'm shooting 38 and trying out HP's, HBWC's, hard cast DEWC's, hard-cast SWC's, HPSWC's, FMJs...

Short of benching the gun I don't know what's going wrong. With hard-cast wadcutters and the hardcast semi-wadcutters, and the LSWCHP's I'll occasionally get a good group with one flyer but just as often it will look like they're all fliers.

I'd say that's just my shooting and not the gun but with hollow-base wadcutters, FMJs, and certain HPs I consistently get good groups. One factor that appears consistent - I'm doing better with less warm ammo. Maybe that's all there is to it. I'm not doing splits though and each shot take time to aim so I don't know how the recoil could be affecting it so much - am I not controlling the gun's recoil well enough and could it make that big of a difference? I feel like I am controlling it, even with the hot stuff...

Anyways, it's been a worthwhile exercise and I have found ammo that is effective according to the experts and more importantly accurate for me.

 

[hso]

more importantly accurate for me.

That's key

 

[derek45]

Kudos for shooting at 20 yards.

accuracy / shot placement is paramount

I see so many posts on all the gun forums of 7 yard groups, that' s too close to figure what's really going on.

It takes a lot of practice to get good with a handgun, keep going

 

[DTL]

+1 on the longer practice distances. Casual practice, I routinely shoot at 10-15 yds. but finish my session 15-20yds. I also do 5,7,10,15,20 with defensive loads at least once a month with my EDC. The range has a "No draw" rule so all from the low ready position.

 

[LeftyRed]

One of my favorite quotes from a gun rag writer, “a wad cutter through the eye is better than a Black Talon in the foot!” Worry about putting rounds on target first. Doesn’t matter what that bullet does in Jello if it misses the bad guy.

Lefty

 

[Hartkopf]

I have checked accuracy of different carry ammo also, but at 15 yards. Out of 6 or 7 different types of 40 S&W, here are the two extremes. Circle is aprox 7.5”

I think what the OP is doing is important but not the most important thing to practice for self defense. Once the most accurate ammo is found, I personally used up all of my non accurate ammo for up close, quick draw and shoot drills. The accuracy at 3 yards won’t matter and IMO, the first shot on target quickly is the most important drill to practice. (along with getting off the X while getting quick first shots on target)

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'd say that's just my shooting and not the gun but with hollow-base wadcutters, FMJs, and certain HPs I consistently get good groups. One factor that appears consistent - I'm doing better with less warm ammo.

There is nothing wrong with 38 wad cutters for self defense

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

 

[buck460XVR]

One factor that appears consistent - I'm doing better with less warm ammo. Maybe that's all there is to it.

....that's a common thread with many shooters. When I go to the local public range instead of my own, I see many folks attempting to shoot the newest and hottest "boutique" ammo out of their little pocket guns. Doesn't take long at all til you see them closing their eyes and jerking the trigger. I shoot a lot and I shoot some pretty stout recoiling ammo in many of my handguns used for hunting. Still, in my J-Frames and pocket semi's, my handloads are generally just at the cusp of being +p, basically because they are the most accurate for me and allow me to practice comfortably. Hit in the COM, I doubt if any "bad guy" will notice 30-50 fps.

 

[Riomouse911]

Some questions result.

What are you shooting, a 4” or 6” steel .38 K frame or an Airweight 442? If it is a DA/SA, are you shooting fairly rapidly in DA as if in a defensive situation or firing a slow SA with deliberate aim? Are you loading your ammo so you can pick the load/bullet combo that shoots best or are you shooting ammo that you have, or are able to find in these lean times?

I was shooting a CZ Shadow 2 at 20 yds last week with cheap Blazer ammo and was keeping 30 of them in the vital zone. (Competition gun, it better shoot! Both flyers to the left were all me.) I am not a bullseye or IDPA type shooter by any stretch, those guys are amazing. But I do have more fundamental, shoot/no shoot and scenario training than most shooters so I’m not too bad.



With my dedicated target .38’s, this is what I expect to do at the same distance, these groups are about half the size of the one above.



Another big part is the shooters skill level. Practice is good, but if a shooter doesn’t know what they’re doing they’re really just making noise. Being taught the fundamentals of how to shoot and then practicing proper technique is paramount to hitting your target well. If you are well trained and shooting properly, then it probably is the gun not liking the variety of ammo it is shooting.

At 20 yards I am happy to keep defensive shots in the 8-ring on a B-27. (That is sixty feet of distance between me and the threat I am engaging, which is about twice as far as any shot I may have in my home.) The 8-ring is pretty much belly button to boobs on most crooks, which is right where I would want to hit them.

Sounds like you are well on your way, keep those fundamentals in play and you’ll be just fine.

Stay safe.

 

[mavracer]

I'm an old country boy it's just not out of the realm to use whatever I'm carrying to shoot vermin. Being able to shoot 20 or 25 yards accurately is a necessity.
Even for someone who never leaves an urban setting I can't see a disadvantage in the ability to hit a relatively small target at an extended range.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Extended range shooting should absolutely be a part of a prepared defender's training regimen. To me, that is the 25-100 yard envelope. Yes, more time is devoted to close range exercises, but ignoring distance is not a good plan.

 

[westernrover]

It's not the gun or the ammo. With a DA revolver, it's often trigger control. Otherwise, it's sight-alignment and sight picture. A poor grip also plagues shooters often enough.

While I said it's not the gun, it is fair to say that trigger control, sight-alignment and sight picture are harder with some guns than others.

 

[derek45]

 

[Archie]

As a Marine - with a bit of handgun experience prior - I noted the then current pistol qualification finished at the 50 yard line. (Around 1970 using M1911A1 pistols and pilots carrying S&W M&P revolvers.) The 50 yard sequence was 10 rounds, standing free style at a full silhouette ("E" type with no score rings). Any hit counted. Any hit. Anywhere.

Frankly, it wasn't too hard.

The point of this is, anything closer is easier to hit. Self defense is usually under 10 yards and often within arm's length. One seeks a device that can be easily carried and will stop an attack NOW.

 

[DMW1116]

Nothing shows you you’re doing it wrong like a 25 yard rapid fire target.

It appears to me some of your projectile choices are known to do well with revolvers in general regardless of power, within reason. The peculiarities of revolvers are many and I won’t pretend to know them all. If you’ve found good loads it might be time to stock up or replicate as many as possible.

 

[Hangingrock]

I started shooting handguns at Parris Island South Carolina in 1964. As this is written 58Yrs later I no longer shoot handguns at 25&50Yrds on a regular basis but rather 10Yds and under at my range on our property. Its purely defensive style shooting.

 

[someguy2800]

I'm an old country boy it's just not out of the realm to use whatever I'm carrying to shoot vermin. Being able to shoot 20 or 25 yards accurately is a necessity.
Even for someone who never leaves an urban setting I can't see a disadvantage in the ability to hit a relatively small target at an extended range.

Same here.

All my pistol targets are between 15 and 50 yards and are 4 to 10 inches in diameter. I have one human torso sized target which is at 30 yards. Aim small, hit small.