Carry ammo....Hand loaded or Factory loaded?

What kind of ammo do you carry?

  • Factory only(I don't trust myself)

    Votes: 99 67.3%
  • Hand loaded(I don't trust the fatcories)

    Votes: 11 7.5%
  • Either/both(doesn't matter to me aslong as it goes bang)

    Votes: 37 25.2%

  • Total voters
    147
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Well, I guess it goes to prove that in this day in age, the pen IS more mighty than the sword. I long for the time when there weren't so many variables as to what is right, and what is wrong. :(

good luck, and be safe.



SILENT ONE
 
Gewehr98, please cite just one case where the ammo in question, being some home brew, was the factor of the civil case. Yes, ammo type MIGHT be brought up in a civil case, but what you cited was simply Ayoobian paranoia propogated over the last 30 years as something that MIGHT happen to a person in a court of law. You supported your argument with possibilities for which nobody has proof. In short, your argument is supported by a gun folklore bit of mythology.

Feel free to prove me wrong. So far, nobody in this thread or anywhere else on THR has managed to do so. Ayoob has had 30 years or so to justify his paranoid claims and they may some day come true, but as of yet, they haven't. Given all the self defense shootings that have occurred in that time and no history of such nonsense, I would be inclined to believe that it is the LEAST of self defense issues to be concerned about.

If you are that concerned about it, then do yourself a favor, and this goes for everyone who believes their handloads or other ammo might get them sued to hell and killed slowly over time by a lawyer, GET LIABILITY INSURANCE. Don't compromise your ability to protect yourself because of an Ayoobian Fallacy.

I like that, Ayoobian Fallacy. Others of his include 1911s hard to defend in court for self defense, trigger jobs will cause the jury to go against you, and many many more.
 
It must really get your goat that people are wary...

It got you so peeved you started another thread on it, and it appears you have no great love for Mas Ayoob.

Fair enough.

I don't have to prove you wrong. Even if there was one, I don't have to cite a case file. Matter of fact, I don't owe you anything. This is an internet forum, where people hide behind their ISP's and yell stuff like Ultimate Shotgun or Glock Rulez. If you don't like what happens, you either ask a moderator for help or add the guy to your ignore list. You don't demand stuff based on your dislike of their requested opinion, like this particular thread. Comprende'?

Now, as posted above, You've already said this MAY come true, but it doesn't concern you, it's down there in the weeds. So you're set, right? Why are you so aggravated, you've chosen your course of action, nothing should bother you. But it torques you that others choose a legally safer course of action as part of their defensive plan. Maybe my responses above confused you.

Ok, let me spell it out. You want to load hollow-base wadcutters backwards in a .357 Magnum in a case full of WW296 as defense loads, knock yourself out. Wanna seal a drop of mercury or curare in that big open-mouthed wadcutter to better your odds of permanently anchoring the bad guy? Enjoy. Heck, you can also carry a Thunder 5 revolver or a snubby .454 Cassull, one-shot stops should be the norm. Great. That's your own personal investment in risk management, you've made the choice and are willing to live with it.

You're betting that the ammo you made for carry and defense will not only stop the attack on your person, but will also pass scrutiny in this day and age when people win large awards for spilling coffee in their laps. Or you're betting that nobody will pay attention to what was used, they'll be too focused on other aspects of the case.

It's gotta be the status quo, because nobody's ever been penalized so far, right? Of course, that's just like the fact that there's a lot of drunk drivers on the roads who never seem to get busted, the law of averages somehow always plays in their favor.

Now, in your expert legal experience, can you unequivocally, without reservation or hesitation, guarantee somewhere down the road that the ammunition aspect of the defendant's (your) actions in a civil court shooting case won't be brought up as an argument in the trial? In other words, the surviving family of the now-deceased bad guy hired The Dream Team for attorneys, and they want a piece of you in a bad way. Can you predict their course of action during the trial?

If you can, you're clairvoyant, and need to stop wasting your time here on THR, because there's a TV show with your name on it.

If you can't, you have absolutely no right to denigrate somebody's own risk-management choice in carry ammo just because it isn't a handload. They've also made a conscientious decision, and it leans on the side of legal safety. It's a very small investment that could prevent a lifetime of grief otherwise. Or would you like to give the opposition ammo of their own when your very livelihood is at stake?

As a forensics type, I know that the federal and state crime labs have the ability to tell the difference between factory loaded and handloaded ammo. They have certain rules of engagement with respect to criminal court cases. Unfortunately, the civil courts, with private attorneys, don't play so nice, and they can hire independent analysis labs to do the same forensics. Just another thing to think about when choosing a handgun and ammo combination for personal defense, because even though you may survive the first attack...

Note: I did not call anybody an Ayoob Paranoid here. People make choices. Why is it so hard to respect them, or at least question their choices without ridicule? :(
 
And you can be sued for using hot loaded Cor-Bon type ammo.....sued for using +P ammo.......+P+ ammo, etc......all so much more powerful than "normal" factory ammo.

I carry Federal ammo, because its my duty ammo. When I retire I will carry my handloaded ammo.

If I'm reloading a normal factory bullet, in my case it would be Hornaday XTP...the same bullet that would be in a box of factory ammo....using data published in a reloading manual.....let someone try and sue. I'd love to face an attorney trying to use "reloaded" ammo against me.

If I'm justified in defending myself, my family or another person I can use whatever I have to do that, a gun, knife, bazooka.......or a brick. A justified use of force is a justified use of force. If someone is in my house and I need to protect my wife......he's going to sue me because I picked up the tv and bounced it off his head instead of a lamp??

As already stated, lawyers can and will sue for anything. But I'm not going to change the way I do things.
 
This thread is beginning to smell like a three day old fish..We have people like Brady, Boxster, Clinton, Kerry, the million mom marchers, the church's the gun buy backers and many police depts.. not wanting us to carry a firearm let alone use bullets in them.. So please, children, lets have a time out and all say OUMMMMMMMM...:cool: O.K? carry what you want but stay in yellow..
 
I roll my own. I had a discussion with John Lott (Unintended Consequences) about this and he told me he did researched this very subject and there has never been a case where someone was prosecuted for using handloads. He also said this was a rumor started years ago after Ayoob Massad wrote an article speculating about this. Apparently the rumor mill went to town over the article and now it is accepted as "fact" not to use handloads for self defense.
 
Just adding ..... whilst the ''myth'', or ''legend'' even, over the legal issues possibility exists .... as Pumpkinheaver says ...
I don't trust the legal system!
Thus ... maybe a feeling for many - ''I'd rather not chance being the first test case''!!:p

Paranoia? No not really .. ''playing safe'' ... probably.
 
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