Do you carry handloads or factory ammo?

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I'm just wondering what you guys trust more. I think most people would say as a defalt answer that factory stuff is trusted more but as of right now, i've had a few failures with factory ammo and no failures with my handloads.

I'm thinking of carrying loads that I inspected carefully myself and used a single stage press to make them perfect. What do you guys think?

 

[Dnaltrop]

It doesn't matter how good you are at documenting your precise load...

Factory CCW ammo is made by the millions, and a load this week will likely be very close to the same round made a month, or a year ago.

In the unlikely chance that you're involved in a shooting, and the DA for some reason doubts you enough to start bringing GSR into the picture... I'd rather have the DA arguing with the load data (and lawyers) of a big, faceless corporation who makes millions of rounds, rather than hoping he believes the handwritten notebook on my bench.

Of course, No DA ever tries to score points on gun owners... ever.

 

[wlewisiii]

Trust has nothing to do with it.

Buffalo Bore can get a 158 gr. LSWCHP-GC at 1000+ fps out of a 1.8" barrel within SAMMI pressures for .38 Special +P. I can't as yet duplicate that.

 

[BossHogg]

My hand loads all the way. I trust them over some dude with a hangover

 

[orionengnr]

None of the above.

I carry factory loads because I cannot obtain the components necessary to duplicate those loads.

And it's a fair bet I cannot duplicate the results they get with those components either.

I load range ammo, and carry quality factory ammo.

 

[CDW4ME]

I carry factory ammo with one exception:

I have a 45 acp that hits closer to my POA with 185 gr. bullets versus 230.

I can handload 185 gr. Hornady XTP bullets for about $26 for a 50 round box, using new brass.
Those same bullets would cost approximately double that $ factory loaded in little 20 round boxes.

I load on a single stage press, insert primers one at a time, powder is done one at a time with visual inspection of each case, random loads are checked for OAL, and they are taper crimped. Velocity of my handloads is very comparable to factory loads over my chronograph.

I've shot about (at least) 300 of those handloads through that pistol and trust them 100% ..... I've carried those loads before.

Why not?
New components, bet your life quality control, proven reliability, factory ballistics, and lower cost.

 

[chicharrones]

Not being a reloader, I would vote a possible fourth choice on the poll.

I do have to put my trust in a manufacturer's ammo product. I do my best to test that product in my guns and the product that functions properly gets picked to do the job.

 

[GCBurner]

I practice mostly with handloads, but for carry away from the range, I carry name-brand defensive ammo.

 

[Bobson]

I actually didn't realize it can be a liability to carry handloads until I learned it here on THR in a past thread. Count me as a quality factory ammo only guy. Never had enough of a problem with factory rounds that it would make me feel limited by using it.

 

[M2 Carbine]

We were talking about this just today at the gun store.

One of the locals had a bulged barrel in a recently purchased 1911 from a factory load that had no powder, so the primer pushed the bullet about a inch into the barrel. The shooter then chambered another round and fired it.
I've seen this a number of times with factory and reloaded ammo.

I was once asked to inspect 7 or 8 four inch 38 Revolvers. These guns fired only factory ammo. 3 or 4 had ringed barrels from shooting them with a bullet stuck in the barrel.

A few months ago I saw a Colt 1903 with a ringed barrel. I doubt the gun ever saw anything but factory ammo.


To answer the question. I carry the best bullet I have. Whether that bullet is loaded in a factory round or in my reloads makes no difference.

 

[Bobson]

We were talking about this just today at the gun store.

One of the locals had a bulged barrel in a recently purchased 1911 from a factory load that had no powder, so the primer pushed the bullet about a inch into the barrel. The shooter then chambered another round and fired it.
I've seen this a number of times with factory and reloaded ammo.

There's gotta be some simple test(s) one can do ensure factory loads contain the powder. Any ideas?

An obvious one would be to weigh rounds before loading them. To find an accurate control unit, just tare a scale (preferably one that measures in grams) with a napkin on it, then disassemble one round, being careful to pile all the powder and other components on the napkin. One would think properly loaded subsequent rounds should all be within close to the control group (plus or minus a couple grams), provided they come from the same box of ammo. I don't reload, but I assume people who do already have a scale that measures in grams?

I'd think that would work well, but is there a better/faster way? Not counting just skipping the whole process and only using your own handloads, obviously.

 

[PabloJ]

I trust folks at Speer and the Gold Dot more then anything I could "cook" myself.

 

[RhinoDefense]

"Factory ammunition" is a specific bullet at a specific velocity within specific pressure tolerance to a consistent standard. If you can't do that yourself you have no business loading ammunition.

Liability? Get real. Thousands of people with more experience than the perpetuators of this myth will tell you it boils down to where you justified in taking a human life to prevent the demise of another. If it's a "yes", nothing else matters. Period.

 

[Dnaltrop]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_181_30/ai_n26806104/?tag=content;col1

Hardly a Myth Rhino, Wouldn't think Ayoob would fabricate things.

"John Lanza, the attorney defending a young man against a charge of Murder, has just told me, "The state will contend that a different load with a different powder charge was used than what we determined from the defendant's reloading notes was likely to have been in the gun at the time the fatal shot was fired."

 

[RhinoDefense]

Really? Mr Ayoob has a reputation for getting things wrong. Do some research.

Not even Mr Ayoob himself has proven directly that handloads got someone convicted of murder in a self defense case. The often cited Bias case was not self defense.

 

[Dnaltrop]

The point escapes you...

Read the article. It was one of the Prosecution's chosen lines of attack. The man still ended up serving 3 years of 6.

His defense in the first trial cost $100,000. 2 hung juries and then a manslaughter conviction. a 3rd and overturned. and a FOURTH trial where the state finally dropped that avenue of attack.

Why risk it? Let the ammo company defend their product if it becomes a question at trial. I don't have hundreds of thousands to pay to defend myself alone.

 

[RhinoDefense]

I've read the article many times.

So if someone that chooses to carry a blackpowder revolver for self defense is automatically guilty of murder because (s)he loaded the ammunition? Try TN V Garner. If deadly force is authorized, the manner in which it is delivered is of no consequence.

 

[Dnaltrop]

You still don't get it, and you keep deflecting to the person's guilt or innocence. Not the point, neighbor.

Having your life raped by an over zealous DA is worth avoiding, if it costs you $25 at the local gun store.

 

[RhinoDefense]

You still don't get it, and you keep deflecting to the person's guilt or innocence. Not the point, neighbor.

Criminal law is about guilt or innocence. That is the entire point. Listen to yourself. Sheesh! :banghead:

 

[Dnaltrop]

Wow...

Ok...

I'm speaking to the ability to close any possible avenue of attack on your innocence in the age of overzealous prosecution...

You're speaking to the result of the trial. If you eliminate any possible aspersions to your version of events, in the most raw and technical, empirically reproducible manner... You have the greatest ability to cut the trial to the minimum of cost and fuss, if there is even one at all.

 

[mljdeckard]

I agree. I'm not giving the rookie ADA with something to prove and the judge who has been sleeping on the couch for two week anything to hold against me that I don't need to.

The reality may well be that the chances are remote, especially where I live. I have taken classes from some of the prosecutors who would be making these decisions, and they all agree that if their case is dependent on hairs this fine being split, they probably wouldn't file in the first place. But if we were working on the likelihood of bad things happening....we wouldn't carry guns at all. We carry because of the STAKES. Throwing legal advice out the window because it's unlikely that it will hurt you makes no more sense than not carrying because you don't think bad things will happen to you in the first place.

 

[mljdeckard]

And I will add, it isn't about guilt or innocence. It's about the DA and jury's IDEA of guilt or innocence.

 

[RhinoDefense]

I'm former law enforcement. I've testified in more self defense cases than Mr Ayoob. I've testified in more traffic violation cases than Mr Ayoob. I've seen (and smelled) more corpses in person than Mr Ayoob has in pictures.

Loading your own ammunition will not make you a criminal in a self defense case.

Changing your own oil will not make you a violator of the speed limit.

Making your own biodiesel will not make you a violator of the speed limit.

Making your own beer will not make you a drunk driver.

Seriously. Take a moment to actually think for yourself.

 

[Dnaltrop]

None of those perfectly true examples have anything to do with the internal processes of the city DA's office, do they?

Stay on topic.

I'm happy for your experiences in the field.

Your variance in experience with Mr Ayoob is illuminating, but also entirely unrelated to the fact that such prosecution DID hang on such evidence, and people are convicted and acquitted on less in this country.

And good lawyers aren't cheap.

 

[GLOOB]

There needs to be a fourth option. I trust factory ammo just fine, I just don't want to pay for it.

His defense in the first trial cost $100,000.

Yeah, that's a lot more than a box of factory ammo for $25.00. You could think of it as insurance. If you think this insurance is actually worth anything, and you think you need it, then go for it. The ammo makers are going to make way more than $100,000 on their ammo sales for every guy that needs to defend himself specifically for using handloaded ammo in an SD shooting.

The way I see it, my defense attorney can just point out that using handloads is legal. Most of the factory SD manufacturers sell their bullets as components in 50 rd boxes for use by end consumers. Dozens of manufacturers are selling me self defense bullets, powders, primers, and reloading equipment. What else is it for? I don't worry about it, because the chance I ever have to shoot someone is so remote I really don't care. And if I end up going to jail for doing something perfectly legal, then so be it.

Some things I won't do because they're illegal. Some I don't do because they're plain wrong. I'm not going to avoid doing something perfectly ok and legal just because 1 guy in a million had an issue with it.

To beat a dead horse, I'll add my 2 cents on the Bias case, once again. That case was going to trial, anyways. The guy had powder residue on his hands. She had none on her hands. She had a bullet hole in the back of her head. Doesn't matter what the gun was loaded with. He was going to face prosecution and an expensive defense either way. If you think a little GSR on her head would have avoided a trail, you gotta be crazy. Even if you believe 100% the defense's GSR testing of the handloads, it's still a difficult pill to swallow, because a distance of 3+ feet from the muzzle is still difficult to achieve to the back of your own head. The prosecution chose a distance of 3 feet to show that it was impossible that it was suicide. The defense should have been able to show that the loads left no residue at even so much as 12" for this to even matter. But they couldn't. All they could do was open the tiniest window of doubt. So it's actually good for his defense that he was a reloader.

This is all aside from the fact that the defense claimed the shooting was a suicide. If someone commits suicide, then it doesn't matter what you carry, because you won't be the one deciding which ammo is used. And thirdly, even if you DO believe this made a difference, the answer is simple. Don't use super light plinking loads for SD.