NavyLCDR
member
NC-Mike said:
Once again, FOPA is quoted incorrectly.
Carry gun while driving a commercial vehicle?
- Thread starter redbearde
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Once again, FOPA is quoted incorrectly.
From my understanding of the law, neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be accessible and since the firearm needs to be unloaded, I don't think it a great idea to store them in the same compartment. That may require you to engage in a legal discussion with some State Trooper. Not a desired scenario.
I do admit my interpretation comes from the fact I am driving a van without a separate compartment.
What it your interpretation of this law:
TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES
CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS
Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person
who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,
shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a
firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the
firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being
transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the
passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in
the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked
container other than the glove compartment or console.
I do admit my interpretation comes from the fact I am driving a van without a separate compartment.
What it your interpretation of this law:
TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES
CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS
Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person
who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,
shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a
firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the
firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being
transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the
passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in
the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked
container other than the glove compartment or console.
NavyLCDR
member
My interpretation of FOPA is, at least to me, exactly what it says. The firearm must be unloaded, and both the firearm and the ammo must be separated from the occupants of the vehicle by a lock. HOWEVER, FOPA never requires the ammo to be separated from the gun.
Many people mistakenly assume that they have an unloaded gun in the trunk, and, since they mistakenly assume the ammo must be separate, they advocate carrying the ammo in the passenger compartment in a location such as a console or glovebox, which is actually in violation of FOPA.
Many people mistakenly assume that they have an unloaded gun in the trunk, and, since they mistakenly assume the ammo must be separate, they advocate carrying the ammo in the passenger compartment in a location such as a console or glovebox, which is actually in violation of FOPA.
It would seem you are correct, according to the law and I stand corrected. I almost knew that was going to happen... Its been a while since I thought about the FOPA.
That said, I would still rather separate the guns and ammo into two separate compartments if possible.
What about carrying loaded magazines? Any issues you are aware of? I don't think you would want to travel the interstates with loaded mags.
That said, I would still rather separate the guns and ammo into two separate compartments if possible.
What about carrying loaded magazines? Any issues you are aware of? I don't think you would want to travel the interstates with loaded mags.
And here may be a "grey area" for vehicles without a separate compartment from the occupants, such as a van.
"Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."
"or" not "and"
That could be important...
"Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."
"or" not "and"
That could be important...
runrabbitrun
member
OK I'm in NC and have a small truck and like Mike,
I have no secure place to lock a gun and ammo in a box but in the cab.
Am I going to jail?
Or do I have to duct tape the locked box
to the outside of my truck on the roof?
These laws are insane man, insane I tell you. :banghead:
LOL...
Most of this thread does relate to Interstate travel. If you are a resident of NC and stay in NC, you only have to worry about NC's laws.
One interesting note about state law and concealed carry. SC and NC reciprocate but the laws differ. In NC you can leave your gun on the front seat, in plain view, while you drive. If you drive into SC, you must conceal it on your person or in the glove. This assumes you have a valid carry license.
The State laws can get you. It pays to be educated on them.
runrabbitrun
member
Mike I can't make heads or tails of many of these laws.
Do you know if said non concealed handgun on a seat has to be registered in the great state of NC before you can OC?
Do you know if said non concealed handgun on a seat has to be registered in the great state of NC before you can OC?
Jeffreii
Member
*adds a wikipedia "citation needed" tag*
Ha! Keep in mind, LEO vehicles are commercial as well, mr stephens. The officer you called out, will for sure leave his arms back at the precinct now after he heard that!
I drive a truck and some states (such as CA) I ask about various laws about the guns and each state says their own thing (I ask DOT officers/State Police officers at the scale/port of entry stations). CA has sort of a "Don't ask/Don't tell" setup, which, come to think of it, I never get asked if I have any guns when Im in my tractor (I'm owner op) but I usually DO when I'm in a regular car/pickup truck.
Also keep in mind, that although they are technically illegal because no state law (or even Federal law) can annul the Constitutional Law (as far as I'm concerned, but that is a whole dif. story), many places that are State owned (such as a rest area) put up signs saying "No firearms" and whatnot. Many scale facilities do as well, but they are usually more limited to the building itself. Interpret "premises" for yourself. Ohio has put up a footnote, however, stating "Unless otherwise authorized by law" - so, as far as I'm concerned, the Second Amendment does actually state you can keep and bear a gun.
Yes, many companies state "no guns allowed" (and the like) policies. This is not just who you work for, but who you pickup/deliver to. Many companies put up signs stating they don't allow any guns on their property. They never check unless it is a high security place or an illegal one (where they don't like things such as a camera of video recorder around, since there is not "secret" product they make, the only reason I could see as to why they don't want anything recorded would be because of something illegal going on...many places live in a spirit of fear rather than that of a sound mind) and all the ones I have been checked out at mostly are into the side compartments, engine compartments, and the cab area, and are usually looking for things much more than a simple firearm, such as drugs/explosives/people (US Customs facilities, anyway) others such as mines and whatnot, have their own things. No pets/passengers/guns/recording devices are usually the biggest "searched for" items, but not too excessively... ie.. they don't rummage through everything you have and treat you like you're a terrorist.
As far as legal info, technically, my tractor is both my place of residence AND my place of business, BOTH of which is commonly exempted from the many [i will add, illegal, because the Constitution is over state laws] of the limitations imposed to guns/gun owners. There are plenty (such as myself) who basically do live out of the truck, and it IS my place of business, especially since I own the truck myself and run my own business in, through, from, and out of it.
The most harassment I have ever had with my guns is treat me like I'm a terrorist and/or check serial numbers and see if the gun(s) are stolen.
Also, add "ports" to the Military facilities/Canada type list too, as many of them have "edge of US Soil" type setups, and US Customs Officers all over and Customs Checkpoints. Many places make you turn in even anything with a camera on it (such as your cell phone) among other things. All that stuff takes up your time, and last time I checked, I wasn't paid for any of it.
so anyway...some more info on it all.
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NavyLCDR
member
The statute is written to allow transporting of firearms, ammunition or any combination thereof. The "or" just assumes that you might be carrying either a firearm alone or ammunition alone. The word "Provided," at the begining of this sentance ties this sentance to the rest of the section and the rest of the section makes it clear that neither ammo nor firearms can be accessible.
Unfortunately, there is no definition of unloaded in the federal statue, so you are at the mercy of state laws in that regard. In all but a couple of states the loaded magazines are no issue at all (according to statutes, not opiniated officers or others).
mljdeckard
Member
I have not heard that Utah no longer requires notification. We recently changed laws for parking lots of workplaces and needing a permit to keep loaded in a car, but I am not aware of any change to requirement to notify. I will let you know that LE know if you are a permit holder when they run your license.
That makes it a little clearer. Notice how one must comb through these laws in the most diligent manner in order to understand them.
The ambiguity in these matter is indeed unfortunate. I try to err on the side of caution and avoid transporting loaded mags.
Thanks for your help NavyLT.
I recently was stopped by a LEO here in Utah in one of the VERY rare moments I was not carrying, hence there was nothing of which to inform him in this regard.
Upon his return from his 'in-cruiser confab' with the big brother network he proceeded to ask me in an extremely serious tone if 1) I was carrying a concealed weapon and 2) I realized that I had to inform him of such if question #1 had been true. (it did indeed flag me as a CC permit holder)
He calmed down when he realized why I hadn't said anything.
The short of it: Even if the law has changed it doesn't mean the LEOs necessarily realize it.
Best bet... Just hand the officer your CC license with your drivers license and let him know if you're carrying or not.
Most officers will appreciate dealing with a CCW holder because they know right away you don't have a criminal record and you follow the law. I'm not saying the cop is going to buy you a hot dog but if you're friendly and forthcoming, you should expect to be treated well.
Most officers will appreciate dealing with a CCW holder because they know right away you don't have a criminal record and you follow the law. I'm not saying the cop is going to buy you a hot dog but if you're friendly and forthcoming, you should expect to be treated well.
Cocked & Locked
Member
This is an interesting thread with lots of opinions.
I don't have a CDL but am riding as a passenger for the heck of it with a friend from NC to Alabama next week. This guy has told me a few years ago that federal law states, "no firearms in commercial trucks."
He's going to be driving a rented Penske tractor and pulling a borrowed trailer. In Alabama we will be loading on city owned property.
I've been trying to find info about this on the net today and find confusing info. This thread still makes me wonder.
My NC concealed carry permit is honored by the states we'll be traveling thru.
Confused :banghead:
I don't have a CDL but am riding as a passenger for the heck of it with a friend from NC to Alabama next week. This guy has told me a few years ago that federal law states, "no firearms in commercial trucks."
He's going to be driving a rented Penske tractor and pulling a borrowed trailer. In Alabama we will be loading on city owned property.
I've been trying to find info about this on the net today and find confusing info. This thread still makes me wonder.
My NC concealed carry permit is honored by the states we'll be traveling thru.
Confused :banghead:
Ridgerunner665
Member
I been driving for more miles than I care to count (several million)...I've dealt with DOT and police more than once.
There is no federal law saying you can't carry in a truck. I been doing it for YEARS.
Ports, military bases, foreign trade zones, Canada....rent a motel room for your pistol. I tend to hide only the frame and take the rest with me...so if anybody does happen to find it, they don't get the whole gun.
There is no federal law saying you can't carry in a truck. I been doing it for YEARS.
Ports, military bases, foreign trade zones, Canada....rent a motel room for your pistol. I tend to hide only the frame and take the rest with me...so if anybody does happen to find it, they don't get the whole gun.
mljdeckard
Member
No info on Utah's BCI web site. Looking at AG's page, one moment,
Sent email to Atty Gen's office, I will post reply.
Sent email to Atty Gen's office, I will post reply.
EOD Guy
Member
There is no Federal law or regulation that prohibits firearms in commercial vehicles.
See the link for a letter of interpretation from DOT that should settle the matter as far as Federal Law is concerned.
PHMSA Interpretation No. 06-0165
Please note that the answer was coordinated with the FMCSA.
See the link for a letter of interpretation from DOT that should settle the matter as far as Federal Law is concerned.
PHMSA Interpretation No. 06-0165
Please note that the answer was coordinated with the FMCSA.
Dan Crocker
Member
I'd say that since the commercial vehicle is big, you might as well go crew-served!
HazMat laws and MCS laws are separate but as EOD Guy posted neither prohibit the carrying of a firearm by commercial drivers.
Where some get it screwed up, which appears to be the reason for the letter posted by EOD Guy, is there are HazMat restrictions on ammo. People who don't understand the law when they read it jump to the conclusion that ammo in a gun is the same as ammo being restricted by hazmat regs. Not so. As the letter confirms, what the hazmat regs are talking about is the cargo, not personally owned items.
Where some get it screwed up, which appears to be the reason for the letter posted by EOD Guy, is there are HazMat restrictions on ammo. People who don't understand the law when they read it jump to the conclusion that ammo in a gun is the same as ammo being restricted by hazmat regs. Not so. As the letter confirms, what the hazmat regs are talking about is the cargo, not personally owned items.
NavyLCDR
member
isp2605 said:
Just like travelling by air with ammo in checked baggage. To SHIP ammo by air takes all kinds of hoop jumping, but to check ammo in baggage is relatively easy.
rscalzo
Member
No they are not. they do not come under state commercial vehicle regulations. They are either Municipal, County or State registered vehicles.
flrfh213
Member
hmmm second post... i drove truck for years and it was my second home.... lived in my cab-over international for 2 weeks at a time... do home laws apply????
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