I find myself choosing my 7-shot .380 over my 5-shot .38 most of the time. Right now I'm sitting here with a GLOCK 30 on my hip, but in my pocket resides a Kel-tec P3AT with Corbons rather than the S&W 442 .38 with +P Winchesters I might've reached for. For me, I believe having two more shots of a lesser caliber is preferable to having two fewer shots of .38 +P. Add to that it's much smaller and it's a quicker, more concealable reload too. But I'm a guy who believes the best decisions are made through good discourse. I'm open to good arguments that could change my mind. Somebody wanna tell me why they agree or disagree with my reasoning?
Carry my little .380 or my larger .38 revolver
- Thread starter Dr_2_B
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I see what you're saying, and I personally don't think .38 Special is significantly better than .380 ACP FWIW, but when I practice such carry, it's often in a cover garment like a jacket. So I favor a revolver for a BUG, because I'm concerned that if I were to shoot through a pocket for example, would the semi auto cycle?
Steel Talon
Member
Well you could start carrying a mil surp. 9x18 and have the best both worlds so to speak. 7shot capacity, plus power that compares to .38 snub in CQB.
Peace
Steel Talon
Peace
Steel Talon
Why should anyone agree or disagree with you? You carry what you are comfortable and proficient with. You decide what's best for you and it's no one else's business. If and when it comes time to use the handgun you won't find everyone with the opinions around to help out.
MCgunner
Member
I'm a little more comfy with +P 38 than my .380, but hey, the situation controls what you're going to carry. You have to be able to carry it. And, if it's a back up to a Glock 30, what's the problem? It's a lot more pocketable than a J frame, that's for sure.
I have to rely on my .380 from time to time because of restrictions in carry mode/dress or the situation at hand. It holds 12 rounds, so I don't worry much about it, just carry what I have to. The whole secret to winning a gun fight is accuracy anyway. Power is good, but accuracy is imperative. If you can hit with the gun, the .380 is plenty.
My $.02
I have to rely on my .380 from time to time because of restrictions in carry mode/dress or the situation at hand. It holds 12 rounds, so I don't worry much about it, just carry what I have to. The whole secret to winning a gun fight is accuracy anyway. Power is good, but accuracy is imperative. If you can hit with the gun, the .380 is plenty.
My $.02
If you are comfortable and confident with your .380 then by all means carry it. I personally switched from a NAA Guardian .32 to a S&W 442 and load it with Gold Dot 135 grain .38+P. I just feel more confident with a revolver than a small pistol. The .380 can be very effective provided, as was stated earlier, that you can hit what you're aiming at.
On occasion, I'm limited to throwing a gun in a hip pocket. I choose the .380 (AMT Backup) because it conceals better behind a folded up sheet of paper.
Other times, I'm wearing a vest which means I can tote a .38 snubbie in a vest pocket which I feel a bit better about carrying.
Terrain and situation...
Biker
Other times, I'm wearing a vest which means I can tote a .38 snubbie in a vest pocket which I feel a bit better about carrying.
Terrain and situation...
Biker
I carry a P32 in Galco pocket holster, weak hand front pocket. This is my always gun. When I get dressed, it goes in my pocket, EVEN if I am not planning on leaving the house that day. That means, when I'm puttering around in the yard, or walking out to the mailbox, I don't have to worry about being armed. When I go out, I usually add my 340PD, making the P32 my BUG.
The reason I chose weak hand front pocket for the P32 is that is a natural position for a BUG. Depending on my mode of dress, the location of my primary can vary. My BUG is always in one location.
I suggest a similar plan of carrying. I don't think it should be an either/or choice. It should be a "this" or "this plus that" choice. Should you even need to draw your CCW, I doubt you will regret carrying a second gun.
BTW bullet for bullet, I feel the Treasury Load or the Gold Dot Short Barrel load in 38 Special is significantly superior to any 380 load.
Edit: If it doesn't compromise concealability, get the +1 Magazine extension for your P3AT. 8 rounds VS 5 rounds is a better argument.
The reason I chose weak hand front pocket for the P32 is that is a natural position for a BUG. Depending on my mode of dress, the location of my primary can vary. My BUG is always in one location.
I suggest a similar plan of carrying. I don't think it should be an either/or choice. It should be a "this" or "this plus that" choice. Should you even need to draw your CCW, I doubt you will regret carrying a second gun.
BTW bullet for bullet, I feel the Treasury Load or the Gold Dot Short Barrel load in 38 Special is significantly superior to any 380 load.
Edit: If it doesn't compromise concealability, get the +1 Magazine extension for your P3AT. 8 rounds VS 5 rounds is a better argument.
Interesting thread to me because we hear so much about these calibers (especially .380 or less) being inadequate. Truth is, in summer I carry either my Smith 640 with 5, +P .38s or my fave, a Sig 232 with .380 HP instead of a full sized .45 1911. I shoot the 232 accurately enough that I definitely feel prepared with my 8 rounds and another 7 in a second mag.
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420Stainless
Member
I often make that choice between a ppk/s and Taurus 85. Usually I choose the .380 for its thin profile. I know that is putting comfort ahead of power, but it is something I am willing to risk during the hot summers around here.
If your idea of defense ammo is the heaviest bullet commonly available in the caliber then go with the .38spl.
If you like the idea of lighter bullet weights to maximize velocity then the .380 is a good choice for you.
If you like the idea of lighter bullet weights to maximize velocity then the .380 is a good choice for you.
I carry a P32 in Galco pocket holster, weak hand front pocket. This is my always gun. When I get dressed, it goes in my pocket, EVEN if I am not planning on leaving the house that day. That means, when I'm puttering around in the yard, or walking out to the mailbox, I don't have to worry about being armed. When I go out, I usually add my 340PD, making the P32 my BUG.
The reason I chose weak hand front pocket for the P32 is that is a natural position for a BUG. Depending on my mode of dress, the location of my primary can vary. My BUG is always in one location.
I suggest a similar plan of carrying. I don't think it should be an either/or choice. It should be a "this" or "this plus that" choice. Should you even need to draw your CCW, I doubt you will regret carrying a second gun.
BTW bullet for bullet, I feel the Treasury Load or the Gold Dot Short Barrel load in 38 Special is significantly superior to any 380 load.
Edit: If it doesn't compromise concealability, get the +1 Magazine extension for your P3AT. 8 rounds VS 5 rounds is a better argument.
What gazpacho has described is the reason to have a kel-tec. Make sure it functions (do the "fluff and buff" or whatever it is they recommend at the kt owners' group web site) then carry it with you everywhere all the time.
The S&W alloy j-frames (and also the Taurus equivalents) are almost "always" guns- I can toss my S&W 431PD in my front pocket before running errands with the wife and kids an forget about it being there. but the Keltec can even ride on the waistband of your running shorts. The 380/32 models weigh less than most cell phones. The keltecs make derringers look as portable as bazookas. Just make sure they work....
The reason I chose weak hand front pocket for the P32 is that is a natural position for a BUG. Depending on my mode of dress, the location of my primary can vary. My BUG is always in one location.
I suggest a similar plan of carrying. I don't think it should be an either/or choice. It should be a "this" or "this plus that" choice. Should you even need to draw your CCW, I doubt you will regret carrying a second gun.
BTW bullet for bullet, I feel the Treasury Load or the Gold Dot Short Barrel load in 38 Special is significantly superior to any 380 load.
Edit: If it doesn't compromise concealability, get the +1 Magazine extension for your P3AT. 8 rounds VS 5 rounds is a better argument.
What gazpacho has described is the reason to have a kel-tec. Make sure it functions (do the "fluff and buff" or whatever it is they recommend at the kt owners' group web site) then carry it with you everywhere all the time.
The S&W alloy j-frames (and also the Taurus equivalents) are almost "always" guns- I can toss my S&W 431PD in my front pocket before running errands with the wife and kids an forget about it being there. but the Keltec can even ride on the waistband of your running shorts. The 380/32 models weigh less than most cell phones. The keltecs make derringers look as portable as bazookas. Just make sure they work....
MCgunner
Member
That's sort of my motto with ANY weapon unless something really bad is going down and my actions could save lives. My first save the day weapon is my cell phone, though. But, if I have surprise on my side, an accurate shot to save an innocent life, that's just something I hope I never have to decide. But, if I was forced into it, I'd do it with the .380 if that's all that I had. It rarely is all I have anymore, though. It's very little effort to tote my P11 all day in a pocket, but there are times when I have to arm with the .380.
McGunner, you have a good point. There are few times (maybe no times) I'm carrying a P3AT that I couldn't carry that P11. I went through a phase (post 9/11) in which I just DID NOT carry anything less than a 9mm and 95% of the time it was a caliber that started with a 4.
This morning I'm going to a job interview and I've actually gone with just the P3AT. This is one of those cases where you're gonna be wearing a coat, but the high today here in Indianapolis is about 95 with heat alerts (heat index of 105-110) so I'm gonna be no hero. I'll take that coat off asap.
This morning I'm going to a job interview and I've actually gone with just the P3AT. This is one of those cases where you're gonna be wearing a coat, but the high today here in Indianapolis is about 95 with heat alerts (heat index of 105-110) so I'm gonna be no hero. I'll take that coat off asap.
Rickstir
Member
My Bersa Thunder .380 Concealed Carry dissapears in my front pocket. In the summer, with shorts and thin shirts its what I go with.
MCgunner
Member
Good luck on the job!
I prefer a DAO revolver for carry because it gets handled so much. Seems like I'm always moving the gun from somewhere on my body to a locked box in the car, the shelf next to me, the nightstand, from pocket holster to fanny pack and vice versa, unloading for dry-fire practice and then reloading -- on and on. My revolver gets handled a LOT.
Because the gun has only a "loaded" and an "unloaded" state, I do not have to worry about anything else. I know it will fire when I need it to, and will not fire when I have unloaded it (and double-checked).
On top of that, a .38 SD round is a proven round for defense and is easy to manage. Practice ammo is widely available and on the cheap side. And there are a number of awesome defense rounds available -- the gold dots, corbons, hydrashoks, FBI loads, and others.
My snubbies are difficult to shoot accurately, but I solved that problem with laser grips. I, for one, would not choose 7 rounds of .380 over my 5 rounds of .38 if it meant I had to live with a more complex operating system. JMO
~Ichiro
Because the gun has only a "loaded" and an "unloaded" state, I do not have to worry about anything else. I know it will fire when I need it to, and will not fire when I have unloaded it (and double-checked).
On top of that, a .38 SD round is a proven round for defense and is easy to manage. Practice ammo is widely available and on the cheap side. And there are a number of awesome defense rounds available -- the gold dots, corbons, hydrashoks, FBI loads, and others.
My snubbies are difficult to shoot accurately, but I solved that problem with laser grips. I, for one, would not choose 7 rounds of .380 over my 5 rounds of .38 if it meant I had to live with a more complex operating system. JMO
~Ichiro
LightningJoe
Member
I find that I can conceal my Taurus M85 about as easily as my P-32. It's a bigger bulge, but less recognizable. But some of the LEOs who post to or who moderate on this site say that some criminals have looked at a P-32 or P-3AT and said "Is that a real gun?" That's bad. I think psychology is 99% of stopping power (fear of getting shot or demoralization caused by wounds). If your gun doesn't look like a real gun (to somebody), the effectiveness of the bullets may be greatly reduced. Ballistic gelatin has no psychology.
Clark
Member
I have handloaded a Browning 1903 .380 to .357 mag levels.
I have handloaded many 38 specials to .357 mag levels.
But I cannot handload my P-3AT even up to 9mm levels.
The Kel-Tek has poor case support, low slide mass, low volume available for recoil springs, and thin chamber walls.
Still, that is what I am carrying, becuase it weighs 11 ounces loaded.
I have handloaded many 38 specials to .357 mag levels.
But I cannot handload my P-3AT even up to 9mm levels.
The Kel-Tek has poor case support, low slide mass, low volume available for recoil springs, and thin chamber walls.
Still, that is what I am carrying, becuase it weighs 11 ounces loaded.
P. Plainsman
Member
To my mind the P3AT is a different category of CCW than a .38 snubby like the 442. The 442 is a fairly deep concealment gun. It weighs about 1 lb loaded and an average sized man with a quality holster can pocket-carry it pretty inobtrusively. The P3AT offers concealment that's a level deeper. You can hide those ingenious little things almost anywhere.
That said, I'd feel less well armed with the P3AT. When I test drove one (briefly) I found it hard to shoot effectively. The design still seems to be dogged with some reliability issues -- just read the forums, or gun mag reviews. Plus, there's awfully good .38+P snubby ammo on the shelves, whether you prefer wide, soft 158 gr lead hollowpoints at 800 fps with good expansion and penetration, or new stuff like the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot JHP.
The .38 revolver is more weapon, but the P3AT can go places that even the snubby can't.
A closer match for the 442 is a "duty" .380 pistol like the PPK or the Bersa. Same size as the 442, same concealability. The revolver is several ounces lighter, extremely reliable, and hits harder. The .380 holds more rounds, is faster to reload, and if it has a good trigger (i.e., if it's a Bersa) it will be easier for most people to shoot well than the snubby.
I think it's a toss up. I favor a snubby because in a defense situation, I would rather my first shot on target be a Winchester or Remington 158 grain lead SWC +P hollowpoint than anything that comes out of a .380 barrel -- but there are strong reasons to favor the .380s too.
And I would probably admit that a person who has a small, high quality pocket 9mm like the Kahr minis or the Rohrbaugh has the best of all worlds. Their only disadvantage is cost. Quality small 9s cost a lot more than a J-frame snubby or a Bersa.*
* This is why I roll my eyes when people ask, "Why would anyone carry a .380 when they could get a small 9mm?" Dude, because you can get a Bersa new in the box for $250 and have a solid pistol. Cheapest price for a NIB baby Kahr on Gunsamerica right now is $549.
That said, I'd feel less well armed with the P3AT. When I test drove one (briefly) I found it hard to shoot effectively. The design still seems to be dogged with some reliability issues -- just read the forums, or gun mag reviews. Plus, there's awfully good .38+P snubby ammo on the shelves, whether you prefer wide, soft 158 gr lead hollowpoints at 800 fps with good expansion and penetration, or new stuff like the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot JHP.
The .38 revolver is more weapon, but the P3AT can go places that even the snubby can't.
A closer match for the 442 is a "duty" .380 pistol like the PPK or the Bersa. Same size as the 442, same concealability. The revolver is several ounces lighter, extremely reliable, and hits harder. The .380 holds more rounds, is faster to reload, and if it has a good trigger (i.e., if it's a Bersa) it will be easier for most people to shoot well than the snubby.
I think it's a toss up. I favor a snubby because in a defense situation, I would rather my first shot on target be a Winchester or Remington 158 grain lead SWC +P hollowpoint than anything that comes out of a .380 barrel -- but there are strong reasons to favor the .380s too.
And I would probably admit that a person who has a small, high quality pocket 9mm like the Kahr minis or the Rohrbaugh has the best of all worlds. Their only disadvantage is cost. Quality small 9s cost a lot more than a J-frame snubby or a Bersa.*
* This is why I roll my eyes
when people ask, "Why would anyone carry a .380 when they could get a small 9mm?" Dude, because you can get a Bersa new in the box for $250 and have a solid pistol. Cheapest price for a NIB baby Kahr on Gunsamerica right now is $549.
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ubird
Member
If I were you I would try a few rounds of Cor Bons through that Kel Tec First!
Mine do NOT do well with Cor Bon ammo, Standard ball is fine. I would rather be able to get off several Ball rounds to one Cor Bon and a jam.
Mine do NOT do well with Cor Bon ammo, Standard ball is fine. I would rather be able to get off several Ball rounds to one Cor Bon and a jam.
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