carrying in a facility that serves alcohol?

Night Rider said:
I remember going to a restaurant with a bunch of my AA Buddies in a town called Vokenrot in Germany they barely understood English we barely understood German and they were absolutely positive they were not understanding us when we told them we did not want any alcohol with our meal. They kept trying to bring us beer.
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LOL. In Germany beer isn't really considered alcohol, it's even served to children. Restaurants have child-sized beer mugs for them. :)
 
old lady new shooter said:
ANY medication or drug? So if you take a statin or a blood-pressure pill... ???
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That question was frequently asked. The answer from DOJ (when one of the instructors called to ask) was that they were obviously talking about medications/drugs (legal or illegal) that caused physiological impairment (lack of coordination, slurred speech, loss of balance, etc) and impairment of judgment.
 
The 51% (of revenue derived from alcohol sales) or "that part of an establishment restricted to those over 21" seems to be the most common legal requirement in most states in the U.S.

Certainly it behooves EVERY citizen who carries a concealed handgun in ANY state to be cognizant of the rules of his/her state and any states he/she might visit (where they may legally carry concealed).

The rules nationwide are wildly inconsistent. Even under LEOSA, I can't legally carry on a military base, and in my current home state, in a stadium or arena for a sports event or concert.
 
fastbolt said:
That question was frequently asked. The answer from DOJ (when one of the instructors called to ask) was that they were obviously talking about medications/drugs (legal or illegal) that caused physiological impairment (lack of coordination, slurred speech, loss of balance, etc) and impairment of judgment.
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"Obviously". Uh-huh. They should have written what they meant, not used such ambiguous language. With this wording, a person on the We Don't Like You list could be charged with a violation for taking any medication whatsoever.
 
Under AZ law I am ok to carry with a CCW permit into any establishment that serves open alcohol if, 1) they do not have the correct no guns sign by the liquor license, and 2), I do not consume any alcoholic beverage. Anyone carrying under Constitutional Carry is forbidden to carry in any establishment that serves open alcohol. Fortunately for me, I do not drink while out and about, anywhere. The problem is the large number of really interesting specialty bars with excellent food that my wife LOVES to go to, like Taco Guild, George and Dragon, or The Irish Cowboy, so if a sign is up, the gun goes in the lockbox. Still not drinking, but that fish and chips, oh my!
 
Just to clarify, California law doesn't prevent folks from carrying in a place which serves alcohol, but rather a place where serving alcohol is the primary purpose. In other words, you can carry in a restaurant, but not a bar. And in no circumstance may the CCW man have even a sip, at least in public. I understand the reasoning, though I don't completely agree with it.

As an aside, Cook's Corner - the bar in the OP - is just down the hill, about half a mile away. This is a quiet, semi-rural area, and violent gunplay is far from the norm. There's a lesson in there for the "I carry a (insert compromise gun here) except when I'm headed for a known bad neighborhood" people - which includes me...
 
Shawn Dodson said:
I carry concealed everywhere I go, even where it's unlawful.

I don't care.

Nobody knows but me.

I have the same right to self-defense after I've had a beer or two as I do completely sober.

I don't go looking for trouble and I walk away from possible trouble.
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You could be a Heinlein fan with this kind of view!

"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Robert A. Heinlein.
 
fastbolt said:
That question was frequently asked. The answer from DOJ (when one of the instructors called to ask) was that they were obviously talking about medications/drugs (legal or illegal) that caused physiological impairment (lack of coordination, slurred speech, loss of balance, etc) and impairment of judgment.
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Obviously...that is, until someone is arrested and charged with a list of lesser included offenses which includes medications which DON'T cause these effects in order to make said list impressively longer.

And with the huge list of all-inclusive apocalyptic side effects, this wouldn't seem too far fetched.

At any rate, that's a reasonable risk we all assume.


EDIT:

Here's an example I meant by "huge list of all-inclusive side effects". I searched a few random, commonly used over the counter drugs. I won't post the full lists for all, just one pain reliever med (asprin) and one cough suppressent (dextromethorphan) as examples with some of the symptoms of concern highlighted. But I picked asprin, ibuprofen, and dextromethorphan.

Asprin:
  1. Abdominal or stomach pain, cramping, or burning
  2. black, tarry stools
  3. bloody or cloudy urine
  4. change in consciousness
  5. chest pain or discomfort
  6. confusion
  7. constipation
  8. convulsions, severe or continuing
  9. dark urine
  10. decreased frequency or amount of urine
  11. diarrhea
  12. difficult breathing
  13. drowsiness
  14. fainting
  15. fast breathing
  16. feeling that something terrible will happen
  17. fever
  18. general tiredness and weakness
  19. greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine
  20. headache
  21. heartburn
  22. increased thirst
  23. indigestion
  24. irregular heartbeat
  25. light-colored stools
  26. loss of appetite
  27. loss of consciousness
  28. lower back or side pain
  29. muscle cramping and weakness
  30. muscle tremors
  31. nausea or vomiting
  32. nervousness
  33. numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
  34. panic
  35. rapid, deep breathing
  36. restlessness
  37. seizures
  38. skin rash
  39. stomach cramps
  40. swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs
  41. unusual bleeding or bruising
  42. unusual tiredness or weakness
  43. upper right abdominal or stomach
  44. vomiting of blood or material that looks like coffee grounds
  45. weakness or heaviness of the legs
  46. weight gain
  47. yellow eyes and skin

Dextromethorphan:
  • nausea
  • vomiting
  • drowsiness
  • dizziness
  • unsteadiness
  • changes in vision
  • difficulty breathing
  • fast heartbeat
  • hallucinating (seeing things or hearing voices that do not exist)
  • seizures
  • coma (loss of consciousness for a period of time)
 
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In Texas it is 51% of sales. If this sign:
51-percent-sign.0.jpg


is displayed you cannot carry in the premises. If the sign is not displayed you are good to go in with your carry gun.
 

old lady new shooter said:
"Obviously". Uh-huh. They should have written what they meant, not used such ambiguous language. With this wording, a person on the We Don't Like You list could be charged with a violation for taking any medication whatsoever.
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They did write what they meant, just not as clearly as some might've wished.

Be glad the state's legislators haven't thought to start crafting actual criminal statutes regarding this subject, and have instead left it up to the issuing authorities to handle such things ... if they even arise. The most likely risk to having a CCW license revoked might be if someone was foolish enough to drive while intoxicated, or impaired from THC (another potential can of worms from the respect of the ATF 4473 declaration), and the issuing authority decided to revoke the license.

I've known of letters being by DOJ sent to agencies who had issued licenses when a licensee became a retrained person (DV/TRO), and DOJ saw it come up on their restraining order system, so they notified the issuing authority that the licensee had become a Prohibited Person, no longer permitted to possess firearms and ammunition while the TRO (or Order After) was in effect.

As far as a "We don't like you" list? Charged with what violation? Of what statute?

Now that the Bruen decision has removed the May Issue part of CA's CCW licensing law, applications and licenses have been skyrocketing. I imagine the courts may see some instances where an issuing authority either denies or revokes a license for reasons which don't withstand scrutiny under the actual laws. ;)
 
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I'm a lifetime non-drinker, so that solves that part of the equation. Also a lifetime student of the martial arts since age 13, and later an instructor.

I decided by age 14 I would never drink because of the effects on judgement and reaction speed. I stuck to that decision and it has served me well. It's as applicable to carrying a gun as it is being a trained fighter.

The other part of the equation is difficult in the state where I live. I will go into a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol with friends on occasion.

There is a patchwork of dos and don'ts in Illinois that is nearly impossible to navigate, so leaving the gun at home or locked in the car is the safest bet to stay out of trouble with the law. It's the worst course if you don't want your gun stolen from your car.

I'm saying goodbye to this state as soon as practicable.
 
SterlingBullet said:
Florida is the same as Texas; if more than 50% of the restaurant/bar business’ revenue is from alcohol sales you cannot carry a concealed weapon into the place.
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I've never seen that before. You can't carry in a bar or any portion of a restaurant dedicated to serving alcohol. But how would you even know how much revenue the place gets anyway? They put 51% signs up in Texas, but not here.

You are allowed to drink, but most would advise against it. Or at least, keep it to a minimum.

I haven't seen anything saying carrying while intoxicated is prohibited, but manual possession of a firearm while intoxicated is prohibited. So if you get drunk in Florida, keep your hands off your gun.
 
I am allowed by law to conceal carry in the restaurant portion of the local Applebee's. I can reach across a low wall to shake hands with someone in the adjacent bar section and must pass through it to access the restroom. Bars are off limits for firearms. Guess I'm supposed to leave my handgun on the table in the restaurant?
 
Statute vagueness is a feature, not a flaw, from the lawmakers' point of view. It gives them maximum impact without having to admit up front what they were really trying to accomplish. Bureaucratic rulemakers are worse.

Kansas is fortunate. The "Do not carry" signs carry no weight of law. That is, all the businesses can do is ask you to leave. If you don't leave, then you are trespassing.

The laws in Texas regarding firearms in bars is not new. I lived in Texas in the 1970's and I knew an owner of a roadhouse. He was frustrated that he could not legally have a firearm in his place of business, when the criminals and troublemakers could. Edit to add: That is, criminals don't follow laws.
 
fastbolt said:
As far as a "We don't like you" list? Charged with what violation? Of what statute?
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Concealed carrier defends him- or herself and it's clearly a case of self-defense, but govt doesn't like this person because they vocally advocate for liberty, so they charge them with carrying while being under the influence of their statin or similar drug. Because the law says "any drug".
 
Zahn said:
Statute vagueness is a feature, not a flaw, from the lawmakers' point of view. It gives them maximum impact without having to admit up front what they were really trying to accomplish. Bureaucratic rulemakers are worse.

Kansas is fortunate. The "Do not carry" signs carry no weight of law. That is, all the businesses can do is ask you to leave. If you don't leave, then you are trespassing.

The laws in Texas regarding firearms in bars is not new. I lived in Texas in the 1970's and I knew an owner of a roadhouse. He was frustrated that he could not legally have a firearm in his place of business, when the criminals and troublemakers could. Edit to add: That is, criminals don't follow laws.
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The OWNER couldn't have a firearm?!?!?
 
old lady new shooter said:
The OWNER couldn't have a firearm?!?!?
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Correct. Nobody could have a gun in the roadhouse. And yes, there were cases of DA's going after bar owners who defended themselves and patrons with a firearm.

Edit: my knowledge of Texas law is incomplete. I was young in the 1970's, I'm not a lawyer, and I left Texas in 1977. Things might be different now.
 
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old lady new shooter said:
Concealed carrier defends him- or herself and it's clearly a case of self-defense, but govt doesn't like this person because they vocally advocate for liberty, so they charge them with carrying while being under the influence of their statin or similar drug. Because the law says "any drug".
Click to expand...

I suppose that just because I never heard of such a case here in CA during the decades I wore a badge, it couldn't happen. Impairment of some sort is typically the crux around such a case being made, though.

Probably happen when LE starts arresting drivers for being under the influence of their statin or BP drugs ...
 
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