Applying A Gun-Control Argument To Alcohol

[ZeSpectre]

Virginia-Applying A Gun-Control Argument To Alcohol

Applying A Gun-Control Argument To Alcohol

Applying A Gun-Control Argument To Alcohol

Sunday, Mar 16, 2008 - 12:01 AM

By John Pierce
Special to the Herald Courier

As both a gun-rights activist and a concerned citizen, I have watched with great interest the drama that has been created by Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine’s veto of Senate Bill 476.

This bill would have allowed concealed-carry permit holders to carry firearms into restaurants that serve alcohol so long as they refrained from drinking.

The Virginia Hospitality and Travel Association, which represents Virginia’s restaurant industry, was vociferous in its opposition to this bill. It repeatedly pointed out the dangers of alcohol and how it feared that adding guns to the mix could exacerbate these dangers. I am surprised, but encouraged, to see that Virginia’s restaurant owners clearly understand the threat posed by the easy availability of alcohol in restaurants.

EVEN THOSE who are prohibited by law from purchasing alcohol (minors) are easily able to procure it by simply having an older friend order it for them in what I am told is called a "straw purchase."

Consumption of alcohol is a threat that costs hundreds of innocent lives every year in Virginia, many of them children. We must stop giving in to the alcohol lobby and enact reasonable restrictions on the sale of alcohol for outside the home consumption! As you are no doubt aware, Virginia does not have "bars" in the traditional sense of the word. They have restaurants that are also licensed to serve alcohol. Although, there are establishments which are truly "bars" that are very thinly disguised as restaurants. This circumvention of the law is known as the deadly "restaurant loophole."

In data released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a full 36 percent of all traffic crashes in Fairfax County were alcohol-related. And in Richmond, this number climbs to a whopping 55 percent. And yet, at restaurants all over the state, with parking lots full of automatic assault weapons (also known as cars), waiters and waitresses are allowed to serve alcohol to the operators of these vehicles while they are in possession of "concealed car keys."

NOW, I am not suggesting twe ban alcohol. I support the sporting use of alcohol in the home where a person is no danger to the innocents on our roads and highways (so long as alcohol is stored in such a way as to be inaccessible to children). But reasonable people can agree that to allow a person to consume alcohol, knowing that they have to drive home, is irresponsible in the extreme.

Seeing these numbers and the very real impact their businesses have on the lives of innocent Virginians and knowing how the owners of these restaurants feel about their duty to our communities, I have no doubt that they will be glad to support legislation banning alcohol sales in restaurants. After all, this is not the Wild West. We do not need saloons on every corner.

As a survivor of "alcohol violence," I ask this of Gov. Kaine and of the owners of Virginia’s many fine restaurants. If only one life can be saved, then will it not be worth it? Do this for Virginia’s families! Do this for the children!

John Pierce, of Bristol Virginia, is an NRA instructor and president of a software development firm. He may be reached at [email protected]

 

[jfh]

This is wonderfully written.

It's a perfect application of the arguments, presented in such a way that the 'typical' non-gunnie ought to wake up a bit and say, "***?"

Conversely, it might get the anti-alcohol zealots running again, and the Carrie Nation League will have an increasing membership...

But, it really is nearly as good as Jonathan Swift would do today.

Jim H.

 

[chris in va]

I'm still in shock he veto'ed the bill. What an a$$.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I'm still in shock he veto'ed the bill. What an a$$.

I agree, I'm annoyed that he veto'ed SB476, but I'm furious that he then proceeded to pass SB776 and create YET ANOTHER "1'st class and 2'nd class citizen" situation where gun rights in Virginia are concerned.

For those not up on the issue in Virginia I'll sum up...
Kaine VETO'ed SB476 which would have allowed concealed handgun permit holders to carry a concealed handgun in restaurants that serve alcohol as long is they did NOT drink alcoholic beverages. His basic stated reason..."Guns and alcohol do NOT mix". Then he proceeded to approve SB776 which allows OFF DUTY Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies to carry concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol AND there is no provision at all against them drinking while doing so. (BTW, said Attorneys and their deputies have no requirements for training to obtain their CCW permits so we're talking about folks with potentially even LESS training than the "general populace" CCW permit holder).

Now the truth is I have no issue with the Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies carrying concealed (or openly for that matter) but there needs to be ONE rule of law here and it needs to apply equally to all. That Kaine thinks the rest of us are less trustworthy or less in need of personal protection than a public office holder just boggles my mind.

The letters to my representatives...

The Honorable Chris B. Saxman
Virginia House of Delegates
PO Box 406
Richmond, VA 23218
Re: Displeased with Governor Kaine
Delegate Saxman:

I am writing to express my current displeasure with recent actions by Governor Kaine.

As you know the Governor recently VETO'ed SB476 which would have allowed concealed handgun permit holders to carry a concealed handgun in restaurants that serve alcohol as long is they identified themselves to the manager and did NOT consume alcoholic beverages. As I understand it his basic stated reason was that "Guns and alcohol do not mix" (ignoring that the citizens of Virginia have been carrying OPENLY in such situations for years with no resulting issues). However he then proceeded to approve SB776 which allows OFF DUTY Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies to carry concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol AND there are no provisions that would require them to identify themselves or prohibit them from drinking while doing so.

So why is Governor Kaine being allowed to create a "second-class" of citizens? Can someone please explain to me why failure to hold a public office somehow means that a Virginia citizen is somehow less trustworthy, has less need for personal safety equipment, and less of a right to carry the means to defend self and family in whatever fashion he/she should so choose?

I eagerly await your response on this matter.
Sincerely,
(ZeSpectre)

The Honorable Timothy M. Kaine
Governor of Virginia
1111 East Broad St. 3rd Fl.
Richmond, VA 23219
Re: Creating a set of second class citizens
Governor Kaine:

I am writing to express my displeasure with recent decisions.

Recently you chose to veto SB476 which would have allowed concealed handgun permit holders to carry a concealed handgun in restaurants that serve alcohol as long is they identified themselves to the manager and did NOT consume alcoholic beverages. As I understand it your basic stated reason was that "Guns and alcohol do not mix", completely ignoring the fact that the citizens of Virginia have been carrying OPENLY in such situations for years with no resulting issues.

However you then proceeded to ignore/approve SB776 which allows off duty Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies to carry concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol AND there are no provisions that would require them to identify themselves or prohibit them from drinking while doing so.

Governor Kaine, this sort of inconsistency creates a dangerous precedent where persons in a public office are suddenly "first class" citizens and the rest of the commonwealth is relegated to "second class" status.

If you have an explanation as to how failure to hold a public office somehow means that a Virginia citizen is less trustworthy, has less need for personal safety equipment, and less of a right to carry the means to defend self and family in whatever fashion he/she should so choose I would be very interested in hearing your reasoning.

If you do not have an explanation for this then you need to give serious consideration to using ONE rule of law for ALL Virginia citizens and dispense with this sort of biased treatment of those you took an oath to serve.

I eagerly await your response on this matter.
Sincerely,
(ZeSpectre)

 

[foghornl]

You folks in Virginia need to show (hopefully, soon to be 'Citizen') Kaine how much you trust him...by sending his butt bouncing down and out the Governor's Mansion steps...after a recall vote.

 

[JerryM]

[This bill would have allowed concealed-carry permit holders to carry firearms into restaurants that serve alcohol so long as they refrained from drinking.]

Though I am one who is on the side of "alcohol and guns don't mix," I think that the bill should have been approved. We have the same problem here in NM, and most restaurants serve alcohol. I like the TX 51% rule, but do not know when or if NM will go to something like that.
Regards,
Jerry

 

[The Unknown User]

I find it difficult to support the notion that someone who is legally-licensed to carry a concealed weapon on their person lacks the judgment to drink responsibly.

It's good to see that the governor down there is making such arbitrary decisions, and then turn around to contradict them.

/sigh

 

[Old Fuff]

Gentlemen (and others)...

The cause of this outrage should be obvious...

The Honorable Timothy M. Kaine is a Democrat.

When you elect Democrats gun control legislation soon follows. :banghead:

I am sure that when the Governor enters an.... a restaurant, and has a libation or two he doesn't need to have a sidearm...

That's because he has bodyguards...

See, there is a difference between you and him. :banghead:

 

[Robert Hairless]

Gentlemen (and others)...

The cause of this outrage should be obvious...

The Honorable Timothy M. Kaine is a Democrat.

When you elect Democrats gun control legislation soon follows.

See, there you go again. Bashing the current Democratic Party as anti-gun is a kind of profiling. Just because Kaine, the Clintons, Barack Obama, Carolyn McCarthy, Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Adrian Fenty, and most other Democratic Party leaders happen to be anti gun and supporters of anti gun measures such as a new so-called "Assault Weapons Ban," does that mean the party is anti-gun?

I mean like if you heard that a guy dressed in a Bozo the Clown suit just held up the corner convenience store and escaped in a white AMC Gremlin would you expect the cops to stop someone like that? Dude, that's profiling and it's not cool. Either they need to stop everyone or they shouldn't stop anyone, and it's better not to stop anyone because like otherwise it's soooo unfair.

 

[Old Fuff]

I know.... I know....

I should have never posted that the Governor is against people carrying guns just because he's a Democrat. Way down deep Democrats probably really want folks to carry guns, but just can't bring themselves to say so.

I'm sure that they realize that if a nut does start shooting up a restaurant, mall, school or whatever the right thing to do is wait until the police eventually arrive and let them handle things. They're professionals, and if a bunch of helpless victims get shot while they wait... well that the way it is.

In such matters procedure is far more important then the body count.

Ask any of the Democrats you named and I'm sure they'll tell you......

 

[Crunker1337]

Guns and alcohol don't mix, but I don't see a problem with going armed provided that you're not drinking.

 

[Hardtarget]

Concealed is concealed.....but don't break the law. Even the killers wouldn't dare have a gun in a resturant...would they.

They get elected and think they are bound to pass more laws. This in spite of the fact that the criminals don't care about laws...or police...or the courts...or jail.... Seems the ONLY thing they care about is the armed citizen.

No hope.

Mark.

 

[lacoochee]

Oops, I am visiting Virginia from Florida and just realized I had a guiness with my Irish Stew at a restaurant somewhere north of Richmond and south of Woodbridge in a quaint old town. I might have done this with a 357 on my person and concealed, I honestly just didn't think about it since in Florida there is no prohibition against having a beer in a restaurant while carrying (bar is a no no but restaurants are ok). Now when I realized what I might have done as I was leaving, I was very chagrined and resolved not to possibly make such a mistake in Virginia again, but I would like to point out that I did not jump up and attempt to shoot people at random with my non-existant firearm, nor did I have to suppress an urge to do so.

 

[RP88]

Kaine has done some nice LITTLE things for us Virginians, especially for the tidewater area. However, when it comes to listening to the 'non-Democrat' side of the legislature, he can be a little deaf.

 

[ronwill]

I find it difficult to support the notion that someone who is legally-licensed to carry a concealed weapon on their person lacks the judgment to drink responsibly.

Rob87, consider driving and drinking. It's basically the same thing. An adult driver should be able to control their drinking but it doesn't work out that way. I fully support a "no carry under the influence" type law. You should be able to carry into a bar or restaurant as long as your not drinking.

 

[ZeSpectre]

consider driving and drinking. It's basically the same thing. An adult driver should be able to control their drinking but it doesn't work out that way.

So because a certain small percentage misbehaves we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and infringe on ALL CCW permit holders in Va?

No thanks, I'd rather make laws and rules that focus on the "bad apples" once they've shown themselves to be a problem and stop with this "pre-emptive" lawmaking that throws a blanket over all citizens, guilty and innocent alike.

 

[Mr. Designer]

I don't remember the 2nd amendment saying anything about alcohol. Maybe they should limit free speech while drinking.

 

[Biker]

I agree fully, MD.

Biker

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Ze,

Wonderful document with so much truth. Alcohol and other noxious drugs have historically caused far too much misery in the United States for any civilized person to stand idly by and allow it's distribution and use.

Selena

(For those that can't tell this post was written with tongue firmly in cheek.)

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Robert Hairless,

Since government control is the stock in trade of the Democrat party it is safe to assume that a Democrat in office will propose and support gun control.

Calling all pit bulls vicious is also profiling. Would you, in the interest of fairness, allow your child to approach a strange pit bull? While it's true the Gospel says not to judge, nowhere does it say you have to be a fool about it.

Selena

 

[Crunker1337]

You know, we don't need to have this debate. Let's focus on the real problem: alcohol itself. Why don't we just ban the damned substance? I mean, crime, especially organized crime would go down.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

According to this website....http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html , there were 16,885 alcohol related death's in 2005, compared to just about 800 accidental firearms deaths in 2001, this according to the Bureau of Justice website. http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm.

Where's the outrage at 16,885 death's in 2005, if something needs to be banned, its beer, not guns!

 

[ZeSpectre]

if something needs to be banned, its beer, not guns!

Been tried, we know how that turned out <grin>.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Wasn't the ban on Absinthe based on the same type of logic as the machine gun ban (and didn't it lead also to cheap crappy counterfeits that were more dangerous than the Pernod-produced Absinthe?

The parallels between alcohol and gun bans are many. X is abused so ban X; ignore the legit uses, ignore the effects of black market. Do it to feel righteous.

------------------------------------
Added: so restaurants that sell beer and wine with food are claiming they are creating a dangerous, crime prone atmosphere? Wow. I think I'll start packing lunch and carrying my lunch to the rifle range, where I feel safe.

 

[PercyShelley]

The ban on absinthe was about at the same time that heroin was first scheduled, which, if my head isn't all messed up, makes those two some of the first US Federal adventures in social engineering via the prohibition of evil substances.

I'm told that the murder of puppies by absinthe and/or heroin enraged wobblies wasn't a significant issue thereafter, so there is reason to think it worked.