Carrying in Banks (follow-up to closed thread)

[Kristensdaddy]

Having been in banking for 30 years, serving as Internal Auditor, Bank Security Officer (required title) and CFO and having been through 30 bank examinations, I can state as fact that there is NO federal regulation concerning the carrying of a firearm in a bank. States may impose certain restrictions but the federal law which covers this issue does not contain any language concerning firearms.

Look up the Bank Security Act www.fdic.gov and see Code Section 2000 Part 326. It is only two pages long. As long as you are not breaking any OTHER laws, you are federally allowed to carry in banks.

Our bank is particularly gun friendly. We have two local gun shops that bank with us. We also regularly bring in new gun purchases to show them to our customers and coworkers. We've had a few Open Carry folks come in as well. One of our liquor store owners carries a primary and backup when he makes deposits. No problems here.

 

[Kristensdaddy]

And right after I hit the enter button on the opening post, a customer comes in and shows the the 8mm Nambu he just purchased. Life is good here in the south.

 

[Carne Frio]

Open carry stills happens in banks up here.

 

[jj1962hemi]

If I could get around the hot weather, I think I'd be ready to move South! It reminds me a little of a place I read about...something to do with the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave....in a history book somewhere. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The law that most people mistakenly claim applies to banks is 18 USC 930, the Federal prohibition against carrying firearms in Federal facilities. A Federal facility is defined in that statute as a building or portion thereof that is under the control of or leased by the Federal government where Federal employees are present during the normal course of their duties.

All banks, except for Federal Reserve banks - and even those are questionable, are private corporations. They are private corporations that must abide by Federal rules and regulations, but private corporations nonetheless. Their employees get paid by the corporations, such as Bank of America, etc. and not by the Federal government. Their buildings are not owned, leased or under the control of the Federal government.

Just because a bank is Federally insured via FDIC does not mean the bank is a Federal facility. My home and car are insured by State Farm. That does not mean that my home or car are under the control of State Farm.

Carrying firearms in a bank is 100% a state law issue.

 

[Boomm]

I work in banking as well and can verify that the OP is correct.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Navy put it very well.

 

[armoredman]

Federal Reserve is a private corporation, not an arm of the US government.
Only questions I was ever asked carrying openly in an Arizona bank was, "What is that, and what kind of ammo do you like?"
One local bank gave grief to open carriers, and they are no longer at that location.

 

[Kristensdaddy]

While the Federal Reserve Banks might (might) fall under the category of non-govermnment owned - have you ever been to one? Security is as tight there as it is going into a nuclear power plant. Guards with M-4s at the gate, car search, mirrors under the car. For the Atlanta Fed you have to give them advance notice of the make, model and license of the car you are driving. They have that info at the guard house before you arrive. The New York City Fed doesn't need those rules however 'cause everyone knows there are no guns in New York City

as a side note, if you ever get the chance to visit the NYC Fed, the gold vaults are worth the tour.

 

[gc70]

The Federal Reserve Banks are private stock corporations whose stock is owned by their member banks. As such, the facilities of the Federal Reserve Banks are not federal facilities as defined in law and the employees of the Federal Reserve Banks are not federal employees.

The only part of the Federal Reserve System that is part of the government is the Board of Governors, along its facilities and employees.

Kristendaddy: Security at Fed Banks really is a hoot. I was visiting the Boston Fed and in line behind a Secret Service Agent; the guard refused the agent's badge and ID, but asked for his driver's license because they had a machine to scan drivers licenses into their computer system.

 

[hermannr]

on top of that..the people that would make you believe you cannot carry into a federal facility (other than a federal Court house) conviently forget to read the exemptions...as the exemption in 18 USC 930(d)(3)

 

[Twiki357]

As a retired Federal bank examiner, I too will confirm what the OP and NavyLCDR have stated.

 

[RBid]

One of the questions on my CHL test had to do with whether or not your CHL allows you to carry a concealed weapon into a bank, school, or church. Naturally, there was very clear language around this in the course material, as well.

We're good to go, barring posted signs against it.

I love Oregon, and banking with Wells Fargo.

 

[brickeyee]

on top of that..the people that would make you believe you cannot carry into a federal facility (other than a federal Court house) conviently forget to read the exemptions...as the exemption in 18 USC 930(d)(3)

930(d)(3)

the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

It does not apply to you for the most part, except hunting (and you cannot hunt in most federal buildings).

You have no "official purpose" for the most part in being in the building since you are not a government employee.

You are no more than a guest.

This stuff is going to get someone in a world of hurt.

DO NOT CARY INTO FEDERAL FACILITIES.

YOU CAN BE ARRESTED FOR EVEN TRYING.

You are likely to end up in Federal court.
You DO NOT want to go there.

Even traffic tickets issued on a Fed facility can end up before a Fed judge.

i saw John Sirica (of Watergate fame) at the CIA once holding traffic court (at least no one had to go to the courthouse).

A LOT of folks at last came to look and see him.

 

[armoredman]

Kristensdaddy, no, I have never been to a Federal Reserve bank, and really don't intend to any time soon. I don't even think there is one nearby...

 

[Warp]

Excellent thread. Thank you especially to OP and to Navy

That "other lawful purposes" clause is usually brought up when talking about the Post Office. Confusing, it is.

You have no "official purpose" for the most part in being in the building since you are not a government employee.

Does the statute say "official purpose", or "lawful purpose"?

 

[brickeyee]

Does the statute say "official purpose", or "lawful purpose"?

"lawful purposes" but it still does NOT APPLY to you.

If you are lucky they just eject you.

They have the power to arrest you and prosecute you.

 

[Warp]

"lawful purposes" but it still does NOT APPLY to you.

What is the definition of "lawful purpose"?

Why did you previously type "official purpose", in quotes?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...What is the definition of "lawful purpose"?...

Without binding precedent in an appellate court decision, we really don't know how a court would apply "lawful purpose" in an 18 USC 930(d)(3) case.

I heard people inclined to argue that "lawful purpose" should include legal carry for self defense. But without the guidance of an applicable court of appeals decision, we can have no good assurance that a court would buy that argument.

If anyone is interested in taking the risk of being a test case, there's a line forming on the right.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Frank:

IANAL, and I'm not sure what the case law says here, but PA, for example, accepts "Self Defense" as a reason for getting a license. One could infer SD as "lawful purpose" from that, I think. (PA's not the only state, I'm sure, that requires a reason and accepts that.)

Here in OH, it doesn't matter for the Post Office. OH has specifically prohibited carry therein....

(I think you can get "lawful purpose" out of the School Zone silliness, too, if your state - right, not OH - hasn't blocked it.)

Unfortunately, in the absence of case law, this could get messy....

Regards,

 

[NavyLCDR]

If we are talking about the Post Office here, "Official Purposes" is the phrase used.

39 CFR 232.1:

(l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

In regards to Federal Facilities, 18 USC 930 and "other lawful purposes"; typically, "other lawful purposes" will be defined by the person in charge of that Federal facility and will be published in their regulations and policies governing the Federal facility. What state law defines as a "lawful purpose" has no jurisdiction nor bearing in facilities controlled by the Federal government, nor Post Office property.