243winxb
Member
If a factory round of 45 colt chambers freely as you said, the load would seem to be the problem.
Case seperation in .45 Colt
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243winxb
Member
45 Colt Load data
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.Info from Lyman 45th Edition. Cast bullet #454309- 235gr weight. "This is a plain base, wad cutter having three grooves and a normal cast diameter of .456"[/COLOR]Loaded with OLD Unique from Hercules Starting load of 8.0gr to a maximum of 10.7gr.Test firearm used by Lyman, Colt S.A.A.
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.Info from Lyman 45th Edition. Cast bullet #454309- 235gr weight. "This is a plain base, wad cutter having three grooves and a normal cast diameter of .456"[/COLOR]Loaded with OLD Unique from Hercules Starting load of 8.0gr to a maximum of 10.7gr.Test firearm used by Lyman, Colt S.A.A.
Hi Oye,
You'd mentioned -
I do not have any Feeler Gauges handy, but three layers of narrow Match Book Cover slide in easy, and, four layers will not go...so, far as .45 Colt Cartridge, the free play possible would seem to be close to but not more than about .040.
You'd mentioned -
I do not have any Feeler Gauges handy, but three layers of narrow Match Book Cover slide in easy, and, four layers will not go...so, far as .45 Colt Cartridge, the free play possible would seem to be close to but not more than about .040.
Thank you Old Fuff,
You'r Post had said -
Serial Number is 168956
Lol...
Yes...
I had felt the Headspace for .45 Colt was on the 'generous' side..and, for trying to measure it now, I find it to appear to be around, but not more than, .040.
With the 35 Grain Black Powder Cartridges I made up, same Bullet though loaded 'backwards' to use the Crimp Groove to permit the loading to fit...FPS was running around 660, which is maybe not too bad for a Snubby, using Black Powder.
You'r Post had said -
Serial Number is 168956
Lol...
Yes...
I had felt the Headspace for .45 Colt was on the 'generous' side..and, for trying to measure it now, I find it to appear to be around, but not more than, .040.
With the 35 Grain Black Powder Cartridges I made up, same Bullet though loaded 'backwards' to use the Crimp Groove to permit the loading to fit...FPS was running around 660, which is maybe not too bad for a Snubby, using Black Powder.
Hi 243winxb,
You'd relayed -
Thank you!
Yes, this is the same Loading range as is represented in my early 1950s Lyman Handbooks, only in their case, for a flat base, Lead Bullet of 137 Grains weight.
I did not think I was being impetuous to have elected a 10 Grain Loading of 'Unique', even if obviously it favored the 'warm' side of what was shown in the Tables.
You'd relayed -
Thank you!
Yes, this is the same Loading range as is represented in my early 1950s Lyman Handbooks, only in their case, for a flat base, Lead Bullet of 137 Grains weight.
I did not think I was being impetuous to have elected a 10 Grain Loading of 'Unique', even if obviously it favored the 'warm' side of what was shown in the Tables.
243winxb
Member
If headspace is off by .030" how is the firing pin making contact with the primer?? Answered my own question. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10379/GunTechdetail/How_Does_It_Work__Brownells_Firing_Pin_Protrusion_Gauge
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Hi Oye,
Ye'd asked -
Oh many hndreds of rounds, if years ago.
Having returned to Shooting, and having fired some regular off the shelf Hardball through it recently, I happened to have recovered some of the Bullets, and, noticed they had not gotten any impress from the Rifeling.
This led me to make some casual initial measurements of the Cylinder Bore fronts, and, of the Barrel Bore, which led me then to undertake the experiment of using a chubbier Bullet.
Chubber Bullet required the Cases to be a little chubbier also, in order for the Bullet to fit the Case...this then I now realize, was what underlay the 'snug' fit, of the forward portion of the chubbier Case being tight in the tapered Cylinder Bore, where, a 'normal' .45 Colt Cartridge, slips in effortlessly.
I prefer to shoot Lead Bullets anyway...over Hardball.
Ye'd asked -
Oh many hndreds of rounds, if years ago.
Having returned to Shooting, and having fired some regular off the shelf Hardball through it recently, I happened to have recovered some of the Bullets, and, noticed they had not gotten any impress from the Rifeling.
This led me to make some casual initial measurements of the Cylinder Bore fronts, and, of the Barrel Bore, which led me then to undertake the experiment of using a chubbier Bullet.
Chubber Bullet required the Cases to be a little chubbier also, in order for the Bullet to fit the Case...this then I now realize, was what underlay the 'snug' fit, of the forward portion of the chubbier Case being tight in the tapered Cylinder Bore, where, a 'normal' .45 Colt Cartridge, slips in effortlessly.
I prefer to shoot Lead Bullets anyway...over Hardball.
Hi 243winxb,
Well, beats me!
I have never had a FTF, and, every fired Shell's Primer has a nice, substantial, well formed normal-deep impress of the Firing Pin...so, it reaches the Primers just fine.
Firing Pin protrusion looks to be about .065-ish
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It's definitely not modified for 45 long colt ( or if it was done it was done incorrectly ).
You've been very lucky. The case head can blow just in front of the rim at any time
with any brass with that much headspace. You could get hurt really bad. Why take the chance. Good Luck.
You've been very lucky. The case head can blow just in front of the rim at any time
with any brass with that much headspace. You could get hurt really bad. Why take the chance. Good Luck.
Lucky is good...
Lol...
With all this in mind, my thoughts are to only use .45 ACP Cartridges with Full Moon Clips from now on, and, to adapt them and the Bullets, as I can, or if I can, to be appropriate to the Chamber end diameters, and, to the Bore Diameter.
I think that is about the best recourse for this.
I am very fond of the old Colt, and, I would like to fit a different Front Sight on it, re-blue the Frame then, or re-do all the Blue together, and, do a fair amount of plinking with it, and also carry it now and then.
For Plinking and Target, I would only wish for low or maybe lowish-medium power Rounds.
If for Carry, I would prefer to have Cartridges which approach or are unambiguously of a 'warm' school of faith.
If the Lyman Handbooks of the early 1950s considered 10.7 Grains of 'Unique' to be max for .45 Colt, the Revolvers they would have had in mind, would have been first Generation Colt SAAs, M1878s or their variants, and, the Colt New Service Revolvers...if possibly, maybe, the 1895 Remingtons also, since that would have been all there were as far as .45 Colt chambering Revolvers for people to have been loading for.
Granted, this becomes moot, if ( as I intend to do, ) I go with .45 ACP only, for this Revolver, but, it is something to think about anyway, far as .45 Colt Cartidge is concerned.
Possibly Handbooks of the last twenty odd years, had elected to err on the side of favoring the least strong of the Italian Reproductions in stating Max loadings for 'Unique' which are almost three Grains less, hoping to save people from earlier Loadings which were felt to be pushing things a little, for those.
Lol...
With all this in mind, my thoughts are to only use .45 ACP Cartridges with Full Moon Clips from now on, and, to adapt them and the Bullets, as I can, or if I can, to be appropriate to the Chamber end diameters, and, to the Bore Diameter.
I think that is about the best recourse for this.
I am very fond of the old Colt, and, I would like to fit a different Front Sight on it, re-blue the Frame then, or re-do all the Blue together, and, do a fair amount of plinking with it, and also carry it now and then.
For Plinking and Target, I would only wish for low or maybe lowish-medium power Rounds.
If for Carry, I would prefer to have Cartridges which approach or are unambiguously of a 'warm' school of faith.
If the Lyman Handbooks of the early 1950s considered 10.7 Grains of 'Unique' to be max for .45 Colt, the Revolvers they would have had in mind, would have been first Generation Colt SAAs, M1878s or their variants, and, the Colt New Service Revolvers...if possibly, maybe, the 1895 Remingtons also, since that would have been all there were as far as .45 Colt chambering Revolvers for people to have been loading for.
Granted, this becomes moot, if ( as I intend to do, ) I go with .45 ACP only, for this Revolver, but, it is something to think about anyway, far as .45 Colt Cartidge is concerned.
Possibly Handbooks of the last twenty odd years, had elected to err on the side of favoring the least strong of the Italian Reproductions in stating Max loadings for 'Unique' which are almost three Grains less, hoping to save people from earlier Loadings which were felt to be pushing things a little, for those.
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If a genuine U.S. Army 1917 (and so marked on the butt) it would have likely been shipped in late January or early February, 1918 and could have still had a cylinder with straight-bored chambers without a headspacing shoulder.
Black powder has a very gentle pressure curve when compared to faster burning smokeless powder. As a consequence you get higher pressure in the cylinder. If, when using smokeless and you have an excessibe headspace problem the case is still wedded to the chamber wall while trying to move backwards, so it can streach and the head can seperate if the case body is weak or brittle.
If you try a moderate load using Trailboss powder (formulated for CAS/SASS shooters) you might get away with using .45 Colt cartridges.
More likely they had in mind those Colt SAA and New Service revolvers made after World War One forward. The SAA was introduced in 1873, the model 1878 during that year, and the New Service in 1898. All of the 19th century and very early 20th production would have been classified for black powder only, or at best, very light smokeless loads. The U.S. Army model 1909 (think New Service in .45 Colt) used a special (?) round based on a slightly modified .45 Colt case and loaded with 5 1/2 grains of Bullseye (as formulated then, not now) and a 255 grain bullet.
Hi Old Fuff,
Thank you.
When I got the Revolver, I do not recall it having any nomenclature on the Butt at all...only a plugged Lanyard Loop Swivel hole, and, a regular old undisturbed Square Butt...with really hideous white plastic faux Stag Stocks.
I rounded the Butt anyway, and shortened it some, so, nothing - if in fact anything had been there in the first place - would be present now. I do not think it did have anything there, or, being the sentimental fellow I am, I would have felt pained to lose it by shortening and rounding. Maybe someone had ground it off long before.
If so, I have to wonder, if this Revolver had been begun as a .45 Colt Model, which retained that Barrel, while having a .45 ACP Cylinder fitted, for the Army use, since the Barrel Bore is wrong for .45 ACP, far as my understanding goes.
For Target, and Plinking, a mild round would be fine for the 'Snubby', but I intend now to limit it to the .45 ACP Cartridge only ( even though low-enough pressure Loadings of .45 Colt, I am sure we would all agree, would be alright too ).
For Carry, for the Snubby, I would want a Round which is of respectable FPS and Bullet Weight...which was my reasoning for electing the 10 Grain 'Unique' Loading. And of course I would want to do some practice with that for knowing where point of Aim should be.
Same ( No. 39, and, No. 40 ) Lyman Manuals, for .45 Colt, and, for the 255 Grain Lead Bullet, call for a range of from 5.5 to 7.0 Grains of 'Bullseye', or, from 7.0 to 9.7 Grains 'Unique'.
For the .45 Colt Cartridge with the 255 Grain 'Standard' Bullet', they also have a footnote saying "Note: Original Load - 40 Grains ffg Black Powder."
35 Grains was all I could fit in, with hard compression, and a very thin Lube Wafer, under the 'SAECO' #453 Bullet of 230 Grains, and to that, I had to load the Bullet 'backwards', using the Crimp Groove it has, but in the upside-down Bullet orientation.
These did well in both Revolvers...showing right around 900 FPS in the Bisley, and, around 660-odd FPS in the Snubby.
660 is about the minimum I would feel good about for the Snubby being Carried.
'777' enough to equal 30 Grains BP, with same Bullet Loaded normally, gave me around 715 FPS in the Snubby, and, that seems acceptable to me also, of course.
22 Grains by weight of '777' gave around 740 FPS in the Snubby, so that was the best "low" pressure round of the bunch I s'pose.
The 10 Grains of 'Unique' was giving around 865...which seemed very respectable to me, and I felt satisfied.
But, that is all moot now, since there will be no more .45 Colt Cartridges for Mr. Snubulator.
Anyway, I have made up my mind now, that the Snubby will only be using adapted .45 ACP Cartridges now, so I will be on to experimenting for those...and I will only use the .45 Colt Cartridges only in those Revolvers unambigiously made for them.
Thank you.
When I got the Revolver, I do not recall it having any nomenclature on the Butt at all...only a plugged Lanyard Loop Swivel hole, and, a regular old undisturbed Square Butt...with really hideous white plastic faux Stag Stocks.
I rounded the Butt anyway, and shortened it some, so, nothing - if in fact anything had been there in the first place - would be present now. I do not think it did have anything there, or, being the sentimental fellow I am, I would have felt pained to lose it by shortening and rounding. Maybe someone had ground it off long before.
If so, I have to wonder, if this Revolver had been begun as a .45 Colt Model, which retained that Barrel, while having a .45 ACP Cylinder fitted, for the Army use, since the Barrel Bore is wrong for .45 ACP, far as my understanding goes.
For Target, and Plinking, a mild round would be fine for the 'Snubby', but I intend now to limit it to the .45 ACP Cartridge only ( even though low-enough pressure Loadings of .45 Colt, I am sure we would all agree, would be alright too ).
For Carry, for the Snubby, I would want a Round which is of respectable FPS and Bullet Weight...which was my reasoning for electing the 10 Grain 'Unique' Loading. And of course I would want to do some practice with that for knowing where point of Aim should be.
Same ( No. 39, and, No. 40 ) Lyman Manuals, for .45 Colt, and, for the 255 Grain Lead Bullet, call for a range of from 5.5 to 7.0 Grains of 'Bullseye', or, from 7.0 to 9.7 Grains 'Unique'.
For the .45 Colt Cartridge with the 255 Grain 'Standard' Bullet', they also have a footnote saying "Note: Original Load - 40 Grains ffg Black Powder."
35 Grains was all I could fit in, with hard compression, and a very thin Lube Wafer, under the 'SAECO' #453 Bullet of 230 Grains, and to that, I had to load the Bullet 'backwards', using the Crimp Groove it has, but in the upside-down Bullet orientation.
These did well in both Revolvers...showing right around 900 FPS in the Bisley, and, around 660-odd FPS in the Snubby.
660 is about the minimum I would feel good about for the Snubby being Carried.
'777' enough to equal 30 Grains BP, with same Bullet Loaded normally, gave me around 715 FPS in the Snubby, and, that seems acceptable to me also, of course.
22 Grains by weight of '777' gave around 740 FPS in the Snubby, so that was the best "low" pressure round of the bunch I s'pose.
The 10 Grains of 'Unique' was giving around 865...which seemed very respectable to me, and I felt satisfied.
But, that is all moot now, since there will be no more .45 Colt Cartridges for Mr. Snubulator.
Anyway, I have made up my mind now, that the Snubby will only be using adapted .45 ACP Cartridges now, so I will be on to experimenting for those...and I will only use the .45 Colt Cartridges only in those Revolvers unambigiously made for them.
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Sometimes a knowledge of past history help solves questions that crop up later.
World War One started in Europe during 1914, and we got sucked into it in April, 1917. It didn't take long for the War Department to discover there were nowhere near enough 1911 .45 pistols to arm the rapidedly expanding Army and Marine Corps, and no likelyhood that they could quickly increase the supply.
At this point Smith & Wesson developed the idea of having a large-frame revolver that could shoot the rimless .45 ACP cartridge and extract them if the rounds were held in two half-moon clips.
Orders quickly flowed to both S&W and Colt. Colt was able to supply New Service model revolvers by drawing on previously, as well as currently made parts. Concerning barrels, Colt had them in stock, marked "D.A. 45" and for the most part with .454" grove diameters. With a war going on the Army didn't give a hoot if the bores were .002" (give or take) oversized. As a practical matter it didn't ... well... matter.
Many, perhaps most, commercial New Service revolvers had lanyard loops, but your serial number places it in 1918, and very few commercial models were made during wartime. Anyway if your gun has a .45 Colt chambered cylinder you will find that if you insert moon-clipped .45 ACP rounds you won't be able to close the cylinder, unless the cylinder has been fiddled with.
The main point of this is to point out that on a wartime model 1917 or Colt New Service, a .454" bore does not necessarily mean that the revolver was, or wasn't intended to be a .45 Colt, and not a .45 ACP - or the other way around.
Carry on...
World War One started in Europe during 1914, and we got sucked into it in April, 1917. It didn't take long for the War Department to discover there were nowhere near enough 1911 .45 pistols to arm the rapidedly expanding Army and Marine Corps, and no likelyhood that they could quickly increase the supply.
At this point Smith & Wesson developed the idea of having a large-frame revolver that could shoot the rimless .45 ACP cartridge and extract them if the rounds were held in two half-moon clips.
Orders quickly flowed to both S&W and Colt. Colt was able to supply New Service model revolvers by drawing on previously, as well as currently made parts. Concerning barrels, Colt had them in stock, marked "D.A. 45" and for the most part with .454" grove diameters. With a war going on the Army didn't give a hoot if the bores were .002" (give or take) oversized. As a practical matter it didn't ... well... matter.
Many, perhaps most, commercial New Service revolvers had lanyard loops, but your serial number places it in 1918, and very few commercial models were made during wartime. Anyway if your gun has a .45 Colt chambered cylinder you will find that if you insert moon-clipped .45 ACP rounds you won't be able to close the cylinder, unless the cylinder has been fiddled with.
The main point of this is to point out that on a wartime model 1917 or Colt New Service, a .454" bore does not necessarily mean that the revolver was, or wasn't intended to be a .45 Colt, and not a .45 ACP - or the other way around.
Carry on...
Hi Old Fuff,
Thanks for the continued fun.
Bore is .457
Cylinder Closes fine with Full or Half-Moon 'Clips' holding .45 ACP Cartridges.
In having discovered that recovered .45 ACP 'Hardball' were not receiving any impress of the Bore's Rifeling, I then elected to brood on -
A ) Using a chubbier Bullet, and, a Lead one.
B ) Using Black Powder Charges and .45 Colt Cartridges with room enough to indulge it, since I was loading those anyway for the Uberti 'Bisley'.
C ) Dipping a Toe in the Water for trying 'Unique', since I reconned it to have a burn rate which both Arms could find agreeable.
If I am to proceed with my now avowed intention of only using .45 ACP Cartridges in the 'New Service' Snubby, I will have to elect the widest Fire Formed .45 ACP Cases from among the spent rounds on hand, and, find a suitable Lead Bullet of roughly .455 or .456 or even .457 Diameter for me to feel good about things...and arrange for Dies which will allow the various procedures of Loading to commence.
My reason for mentioning the Bore particularly, is that it is conspicuously larger than what one would associate as having been meant for .45 ACP...being as it is .457 across the 'grooves'.
Cylinder Bores are tapered.
Cylinder Bores are .457 on their far end.
Thanks for the continued fun.
Bore is .457
Cylinder Closes fine with Full or Half-Moon 'Clips' holding .45 ACP Cartridges.
In having discovered that recovered .45 ACP 'Hardball' were not receiving any impress of the Bore's Rifeling, I then elected to brood on -
A ) Using a chubbier Bullet, and, a Lead one.
B ) Using Black Powder Charges and .45 Colt Cartridges with room enough to indulge it, since I was loading those anyway for the Uberti 'Bisley'.
C ) Dipping a Toe in the Water for trying 'Unique', since I reconned it to have a burn rate which both Arms could find agreeable.
If I am to proceed with my now avowed intention of only using .45 ACP Cartridges in the 'New Service' Snubby, I will have to elect the widest Fire Formed .45 ACP Cases from among the spent rounds on hand, and, find a suitable Lead Bullet of roughly .455 or .456 or even .457 Diameter for me to feel good about things...and arrange for Dies which will allow the various procedures of Loading to commence.
My reason for mentioning the Bore particularly, is that it is conspicuously larger than what one would associate as having been meant for .45 ACP...being as it is .457 across the 'grooves'.
Cylinder Bores are tapered.
Cylinder Bores are .457 on their far end.
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You have an interesting animal....
The tapered chambers with no headspacing shoulder meet the description of early Colt .45 ACP cylinders to a "T". The fact that you can close the cylinder when it's loaded with cliped .45 ACP rounds pretty well confirms what it is, unless someone made some major modifications on the back end. It would also explain the serious headspace issues when you shoot .45 Colt with anything other then black powder. In a later cylinder .45 Colt rounds wouldn't chamber because of the .45 ACP headspacing shoulder.
I suspect the barrel blank started life as one intended to be used in one of the .455 Eley revolvers being made for the Brits. It ended up in a M1917 because with a war on nobody cared about small details.
You should throw this piece of obsolete junk away, and I have just the trash barrel...
So what are your options? (Beside the above which on my part is wishful thinking).
You are going to have a very hard time getting larger then .454" bullets to go into a .45 ACP case without expanding it at the mouth. Since the gun has been reworked to the point where it has no collector's value, I would obtain a new barrel blank with a .452" bore and have a gunsmith or machinest turn and thread it to fit the frame. Cut it to any length you want, and add a new front sight. This would solve a lot of issues, and the .452" diameter is correct for both .45 ACP and current .45 Colt bullets.
Another alternative for a handloader is to trim .308 or .30-06 rifle cases to .45 Colt length, neck ream, and load them using regular moon clips. If you want you can make the cases full-cylinder length, and seat your wadcutter bullets flush with the front of the case. You might have to ream out the taper at the front of the chamber(s), but you would have less to worry about when it came to throat diameter vs. the barrel's bore - either original or replacement.
The tapered chambers with no headspacing shoulder meet the description of early Colt .45 ACP cylinders to a "T". The fact that you can close the cylinder when it's loaded with cliped .45 ACP rounds pretty well confirms what it is, unless someone made some major modifications on the back end. It would also explain the serious headspace issues when you shoot .45 Colt with anything other then black powder. In a later cylinder .45 Colt rounds wouldn't chamber because of the .45 ACP headspacing shoulder.
I suspect the barrel blank started life as one intended to be used in one of the .455 Eley revolvers being made for the Brits. It ended up in a M1917 because with a war on nobody cared about small details.
You should throw this piece of obsolete junk away, and I have just the trash barrel...
So what are your options? (Beside the above which on my part is wishful thinking).
You are going to have a very hard time getting larger then .454" bullets to go into a .45 ACP case without expanding it at the mouth. Since the gun has been reworked to the point where it has no collector's value, I would obtain a new barrel blank with a .452" bore and have a gunsmith or machinest turn and thread it to fit the frame. Cut it to any length you want, and add a new front sight. This would solve a lot of issues, and the .452" diameter is correct for both .45 ACP and current .45 Colt bullets.
Another alternative for a handloader is to trim .308 or .30-06 rifle cases to .45 Colt length, neck ream, and load them using regular moon clips. If you want you can make the cases full-cylinder length, and seat your wadcutter bullets flush with the front of the case. You might have to ream out the taper at the front of the chamber(s), but you would have less to worry about when it came to throat diameter vs. the barrel's bore - either original or replacement.
It's a Zoo here...maybe an Orphange...maybe both...
Makes sense to me...yes...just as that.
Likewise...makes sense...just as that.
I am so fond of it though!
Lol...
Truely.
I made a fine Shoulder Holster for it in 1990, used to carry it that way, as well as carry it when wearing Trousers which had substantial-enough front Pockets.
I was just young and naive, and had not realized how aweful the relationship was, of Bullet diameter for .45 ACP, to Cylinder Bores and Barrel diameter.
Now that I do know, I seek to remedy those issues.
Yes...I will have to see on that, if the Cases wil permit it without cracking or other troubles.
I was also thinking of using 'Heeled' hollow-base Bullets, to help make up for it.
A Heeled, hollow Base Wadcutter, of say, 230 - 260 Grains, would be an interesting Bullet in itself.
True...but my Cylinder Bore's farther ends are still .457...which would make for some nasty blow-by during those early interior Ballistic phases.
Or, I could see about having Hollow Base Bullets...of course...
Could I anneal regular old .45 ACP Case lip areas? If finding them to resent being expanded as-is?
I want all the FPS I can get with Mr. Snubby, so alleviating Bullet to Cylinder Chamber fit and Blow-By and Forcing Cone issues is on my mind.
If I had to, I would make a Mould for Casting a Heeled, slightly Hollow Base Bullet, of entirely 'flat' or even hollow front Meplat, for this Revolver to enjoy...even seeing to it the Bullet Front has a deep "X" aspect for encouraging a generous quadrofircation when encountering resistence of a Target material
My interest is largely for Carry anyway, since that was my intention in acquiring and making it mine to begin with.
These things are indeed in earnest!
With these little issues ammended, it would be a wonderful Carry piece, and, no slouch for performance...especially with the Full Moon Clip .45 ACP, finessed to suit it.
If I managed to see 865 FPS with a less than ideal size Bullet, and 10 Grains of 'Unique', albeit, in an unsuitable Cartridge Case kind, a right fitting Bullet ought to be a little better even, either allowing a reduction on Powder charge equivelent in .45 ACP, for being in the mid 8s, or, as may be.
So, as the old saying rightly goes - "How you gunna keep them back on the Farm, after they seen Pear-eeeeee?"
Lol...
Now, also, your Idea of using .30-'06 Cases, modified to suit...that notion has a lot of appeal to me.
As you mention, it would allow me the use of the Full Moon Clips, and, I could make them to a length which would allow me to have a Powder Density factor, similar to that of .45 Colt.
This is very appealing...though it would reauire a Heeled Bullet, if I were to insist that my Bullets will fit closely to the Cylinder Bore's .457-ish diameter.
This would alleviate any worries of things being 'pinched' during the let-go phase of early events.
Otherwise, the only other way I can image to reconcile the Cylinder Bore to Bullet diameter question, is to have a short case, as the .45 ACP Cases are, and, to abide some blow by while the Bullet and case enjoy a nice let-go phase, happening in the middle and generous enough diameter of the mid section of the Cylinder Bore, prior to the Bullet passing through the close tolerance of the farther end of the tapering Bores, to go onto the Forcing Cone, etc.
All in all, this is become a really interesting subject or consideration.
I sure am enjoying and grateful for your conversing with me Olf Fuff..!
Thank you!
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Mighty nice of you to offer, Walkalong.
I am set on heavier, and Lead though...and flat-front Wadcutters or Hollow-Front. or expanding Hollow-Front.
My whole notion for the Snubby, had always been as a Carry.
Though I would also do downloded Wadcutter Cartridges for Target and Plinking...of course..!
I am set on heavier, and Lead though...and flat-front Wadcutters or Hollow-Front. or expanding Hollow-Front.
My whole notion for the Snubby, had always been as a Carry.
Though I would also do downloded Wadcutter Cartridges for Target and Plinking...of course..!
Jim Watson
Member
Lyman or RCBS makes a hollowbase bullet mould meant for .455 Webley that would be useful here. You might have to size it down to where it would chamber freely and depend on it expanding back up to throat and barrel diameter.
Hi Jim Watson,
Hmmmm...might be fun to try some...thank you!
Might be a good one for my other .45 Colt Revolvers for that matter.
For the 'Snubby', my heart is set on a Bullet shaped like a 'Can of Beans' though...if maybe hollow on one or both ends, depending.
If I have a .457 Bullet, or a tad under that, as .4565 or something, 230-ish Grains, Flat Base, and Hollow on the Front, I'd be happy.
If ( in addition to adapting .45 ACP Shells) I were to adapt some .30-'06 Shells, to be about as long as .45 Colt Shells would have been, a Heeled Bullet and Hollow Base would be ideal for them, allowing me a nice charge of 3f Black Powder or '777'.
For the .45 ACP Shells, a Flat Base Bullet ( 'Beer Can', or 'Can of Beans' shape ) ought to do fine.
Cylinder Chamber diameters where the Bullet passes, are .457
Casting my own will likely be the best means of acheiving the right diameter...and or sizing from there ( I have a Sizer )...and or of having the shape and weight I have in mind.
If I could find a 'SAECO' # 453 Mold, it could be modified to produce the Bullet I am after.
Hmmmm...might be fun to try some...thank you!
Might be a good one for my other .45 Colt Revolvers for that matter.
For the 'Snubby', my heart is set on a Bullet shaped like a 'Can of Beans' though...if maybe hollow on one or both ends, depending.
If I have a .457 Bullet, or a tad under that, as .4565 or something, 230-ish Grains, Flat Base, and Hollow on the Front, I'd be happy.
If ( in addition to adapting .45 ACP Shells) I were to adapt some .30-'06 Shells, to be about as long as .45 Colt Shells would have been, a Heeled Bullet and Hollow Base would be ideal for them, allowing me a nice charge of 3f Black Powder or '777'.
For the .45 ACP Shells, a Flat Base Bullet ( 'Beer Can', or 'Can of Beans' shape ) ought to do fine.
Cylinder Chamber diameters where the Bullet passes, are .457
Casting my own will likely be the best means of acheiving the right diameter...and or sizing from there ( I have a Sizer )...and or of having the shape and weight I have in mind.
If I could find a 'SAECO' # 453 Mold, it could be modified to produce the Bullet I am after.
243winxb
Member
The extra headspace of .030" may not be a problem, causing case head separations. IMO. The web area of modern brass is extra thick in this unsupported area. I would have to see an inlargement/bulge of the web before i would give up on the 45 colt loading. Sure, some may stretch and separate in the middle with a hot load, but that is not dangerous IMO. You have said you fired many rounds of 45 colt with no problems or misfires. But at lower pressures. Photos of web areas >
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