Cases of backcountry self defense?

[coloradokevin]

Hey, can you guys point to any cases where a person has defended themselves with a firearm against an attacker in the backcountry, while camping, or while hiking?

I was just discussing this issue with someone today, and recall reading a couple of news stories about such situations in the not too distant past. But, I can't seem to find any of them while Googling around the internet right now (too many trivial weird stories keep popping up, like some hiker who shot himself in the rear).

If you guys know of any such cases, can you please provide me with a link to these stories?

Thanks!

 

[Alaska444]

The most infamous is the Harold Fish story. This is a must know story for some of the mistakes he made. Never give a statement without an attorney is the take home message. He was initially convicted by his alleged inconsistent statements.

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/article_b359b204-65a3-533a-84b1-b38470e1b916.html

 

[mnrivrat]

Not sure if this is what your looking for because it is not a published story.

Where it apply's is the self defense in the back woods, and it happened to me when I was just into my teens. My oldest brother and I were squirrel hunting on wooded land near a river bottom. His friend who owned the land had come out to visit with him and I ended up headed back to the place where the car was parked while they lagged behind to chat.

As I broke out into the clearing near the car I was was facing a pack of feral dogs. About a dozen dogs, and they started toward me with teeth showing and snarly growls. I was of course armed, and was able to shoot the lead dog which changed the mindset of the group as they took off in the opposite direction. I have no doubt I would have been in deep trouble had I not been armed.

A little history regarding the feral dog pack. They were known to roam the river bottom area and once had attack the land owner (brothers friend) while he was on his tractor. He had to shoot more than one to get them to stop the attack. The origin of the dogs was an old house near the river where an old recluse would sometimes feed the strays. They would gather there but he never kept them fed, so they would run the area looking for food.

He died several years after this attack and was found half eaten by the dogs.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Gotta watch your 6 (and your mouth) when you go into town.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/appalacian_trail_hiker_burned.html
Woman assaulted at Gettysburg on a trail.
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-12/...line-hiker-multiple-stab-wounds?_s=PM:JUSTICE
Dude living in a park arrested for rape and assault on a trail
http://www.kgw.com/news/Woman-assaulted-on-Southwest-Portland-trail-164200576.html
And, of course, Randall Smith tried to kill two guys camping on the AT.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14...the-appalachian-trails-very-own-serial-killer

I realize that all these don't meet your exact criteria, but if you're looking for ammo to use in a pro gun debate for backpacking, it's hard to ignore the evidence.

 

[jeepnik]

Two.

First was my dad. At an organized camp ground, in the early 60's a bunch or rowdy types came in after all the sites were filled. The started harassing one family trying to convince them to move. Dad and a couple of other men, as it turned out all WWII vets approached and made it clear (handguns will do that) that they needed to leave. Lesson learned, never piss off a bunch of armed combat vets.

Second was mine. Out in the desert, my nephew and I were jeepin' and having a generally good time. We stopped to help some stuck young (well young to me) fellows. Part way thru one starts making noises that it would just be easier to take my Jeep. I was on the winch, and walked to the cab and pulled out my AR-7 and quickly assembled it. My nephew is a deputy sheriff but didn't want to give that away. At the sight of the AR-7 they got quiet. We left them there, still stuck, and used my short wave to get a message thru to the sheriff dept. By the time the on duty deputies got there they had managed to get unstuck and leave the area.

That AR-7 suddenly had felt kinda small. I have since replaced it as my designated Jeep gun with a modified Mossy 500 .410. The slugs are just a bit more potent.

 

[longknife12]

Never had to use one, kids and myself always carry when in the hills.Mere presence can defuse things. four legged critters are no the only thing out there!
Dan

 

[Owen Sparks]

There are times when it is not wise to involve the police.

 

[10-96]

I wasn't around to see it firsthand, but it seems the Battle of San Jacinto was a pretty big deal at the time.

 

[BK]

WARNING - graphic details

I can't find the story in a Google search but I remember a double homicide where a man murdered a mother and daughter in the California wilderness. It might have been another state like Washington, but I think I remember Cali. The man had a handgun and he took the two unarmed women hostage for a number of days. He forced them into some unspeakable sexual acts and moved them around staying in a hotel or two. I recall that he killed them both with a knife and in his trial he actually stated that he had cut the throat of the daughter and he stood over her waiting for her to expire. She motioned and mouthed to him to shoot her in the head to end it, but standing over her, he told her that he never originally had any ammo in that handgun. The story lacks self defense, but I wish they would have put a couple .38 rounds in his chest when he first tried to assault them. It's a story that exemplifies the need for arms at all times.

 

[gunnutery]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632322&highlight=national+parks+forests

The above link has some incidents listed from national forests/parks.

 

[coloradokevin]

Thanks for the interest, everyone. I know there are lots of known cases where someone has been attacked in the backcountry (though it is probably a safer place than most city streets), and some notable cases have occurred out here in Colorado in the past few years.

The argument I was having with someone was regarding the concept of someone actually using a gun to defend themselves against such an attack from a person. The suggestion was that guns haven't actually been used in any documented backcountry defensive situations (obviously they could have been in quite a few situations).

 

[Warp]

Thanks for the interest, everyone. I know there are lots of known cases where someone has been attacked in the backcountry (though it is probably a safer place than most city streets), and some notable cases have occurred out here in Colorado in the past few years.

The argument I was having with someone was regarding the concept of someone actually using a gun to defend themselves against such an attack from a person. The suggestion was that guns haven't actually been used in any documented backcountry defensive situations (obviously they could have been in quite a few situations).

1. Even if they haven't, that doesn't mean being armed in the 'back country' is not a good idea. The numbers are low because of the relatively small number of people out there vs urban/suburban locations, and because a lot of places like that are off limits (like national parks used to be) and a lot of people who do thigns like this somehow end up being unarmed.

2. Harold Fish. And don't accept a response that Fish was out of line or that he didn't need to defend himself. It unfortunately took awhile to get things set straight, but he sure as hell seems to have been "in the right" to fire in self defense while out hiking.

 

[MedWheeler]

I reckon' there are a lot more than we hear of, especially incidents that involve no shots being fired, or no one being hit if any are. Being "backcountry", a lot probably go unreported.
You can try the story in the book "Murder on Shadow Mountain." A true story, it's an account of a man who had just got out of the Navy back in around 1970 or so, and was hitchhiking cross-county. In Oregon, he was picked up by a guy who later showed off two stolen .38 revolvers he had, and that the car was also stolen. The driver, about 20 years older, wanted to "do robberies together" with the young man, and the two later picked up a young female hitchhiker. The older man wanted to rape and kill her, and he had given the younger man one of the guns. When the attack commenced, the younger man decided to stop it, and tried to take the older at gunpoint. The older apparently went for his own, and was shot dead. The female was in the process of fleeing, and did not see the shooting. Panicked, the younger man ditched the car and guns, and took off on his own. This happened on an isolated road in the mountains of Oregon. He was arrested 21 years later when a "cold-case" investigation brought cops around to him, living several states away, married, with a family. He was ultimately acquitted, but the case pointed out the mistakes he had made after the shooting that resulted in his prosecution, and costly defense.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

We went to a camping trip and was confronted by a man who claimed to be the property owner which he wasn't since we had meet the owner at the gate about 2 hours earlier. He got huffy and said he was going to whip us and run us off HIS place. But when we pulled out that Marlin 60 and a Ruger MKII pistol. He got to backing up and stammering about getting the law and we told him to go ahead. We found out the next day that he was a new neighbor to this landowner and didn't really understand where his property ended. The land owner was very upset and called the law on HIM. Last I hear they made up and build a fence.

 

[Snag]

A lot of stuff happens in the woods, lots of stuff that like MedWheeler said, goes unreported. I lost a friend when he and another individual got in an argument out in the woods of my home town. The only reason anyone ever found out about it was because after about a week the guilt got to the murderer and he confessed to this lady that owned the store. People get real brave when they know no one is around and law enforcement is hours away. That's just one example off the top of my head, there are more. Then you have the suicides and incidents like that of a couple years ago where a woman drives up to the middle of nowhere to drown her daughter in a river. Honestly sometimes I think I'd feel safer in the city.

Of the things I know made the papers I tried to find links for but the only one I can find, probably because it was recent, is the mom/daughter story and no one wants to read that.

 

[Ignition Override]

There was a recent version of this topic about carrying on forested federal land, and the mean people who might be harvesting weed etc on such govt. land.

One THR guy said that he was with a few other people on mt. bikes, maybe four-wheelers.

Two scruffy, rough-looking types suddenly emerged from the woods with a rifle and sat about fifty feet away, watching them suspisciously and quietly talking. Correct my impressions if the OP sees this.

If the recreational visitors had not displayed some gun (by chance?), he was worried that the other guys might have tried to kill them. Perfect place to hide bodies.

 

[forindooruseonly]

There was a recent version of this topic about carrying on forested federal land, and the mean people who might be harvesting weed etc on such govt. land.

One THR guy said that he was with a few other people on mt. bikes, maybe four-wheelers.

Two scruffy, rough-looking types suddenly emerged from the woods with a rifle and sat about fifty feet away, watching them suspisciously and quietly talking. Correct my impressions if the OP sees this.

If the recreational visitors had not displayed some gun (by chance?), he was worried that the other guys might have tried to kill them. Perfect place to hide bodies.

That might be my story from this thread. There is also some other stories way scarier than mine.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632322

 

[Malamute]

This was an interesting situation. Grizzly attacked a guy, he shot it with a 41 mag pistol, killing the bear after it mauled him pretty badly.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/article_9f6b7326-78b7-11de-aab0-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[19-3Ben]

Wasn't there some well known story about a guy on a farm or something who had to fight off a few bad guys? I seem to remember him leaving his farm house and using... was it some S&W 9mm carbine (model 76?) or something similar to fight off some guys in one of the barns around his farm? I remember it was one of those oddball situations where an SD encounter turned into more of a combat mission.
Anyone know which story I'm talking about?

 

[bldsmith]

I can't find the story in a Google search but I remember a double homicide where a man murdered a mother and daughter in the California wilderness. It might have been another state like Washington, but I think I remember Cali. The man had a handgun and he took the two unarmed women hostage for a number of days. He forced them into some unspeakable sexual acts and moved them around staying in a hotel or two. I recall that he killed them both with a knife and in his trial he actually stated that he had cut the throat of the daughter and he stood over her waiting for her to expire. She motioned and mouthed to him to shoot her in the head to end it, but standing over her, he told her that he never originally had any ammo in that handgun. The story lacks self defense, but I wish they would have put a couple .38 rounds in his chest when he first tried to assault them. It's a story that exemplifies the need for arms at all times.

This occurred to a well known family in our area. Here is the link to the story. The handyman confessed to 4 murders, not only the mother and daughter but a friend and exchange student traveling with them. He also gruesomely murdered a park employee.

http://www.yosemitegold.com/yosemite/sund.htm

 

[Alaska444]

Gruesome case for sure, but not a self defense case as asked in the OP.

There was a case in Alaska several years ago where a man went on a rampage killing 6 of the 22 residents of McCarthy Alaska. One man fought back and was able to run away after being wounded in the face. He notified another neighbor who went into town armed with a 12 ga shotgun.

The man, Louis Hastings, had killed 3 people inside the general store/mail room where everyone was waiting to get the once a week mail delivery. He confronted the subject and traded shots.

The man with the shotgun left and went to the airport to warn the pilot and anyone coming into town. Unfortunately, Louis Hastings ambushed them at the airport runway and shot him and his wife killing them. Another neighbor came to the airport and was likewise killed by a rifle.

The first man was able to escape with a local pilot who flew him to Anchorage and notified the state police who caught up to Hastings fleeing on a snow machine.

Although not a successful defense in many ways, at least one victim was able to survive a point blank gunshot to the face with a hidden .22 LR pistol in a mitten. The wife of the last victim killed at the airport runway was able to hide in a woodshed.

http://murderpedia.org/male.H/h/hastings-louis.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=DI...BQ#v=onepage&q=Louis hastings murders&f=false

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Isn't the sheer horror and terror of dying utterly alone in the wilderness enough to convince people opposed to armed citizens in parks to change their minds?
I remember a brutal trailside murder case in Georgia - a lone female hiker was overcome by a male assailant, tied to a tree and slain. All of the "alternatives" anti-gunners suggest we use to overcome attackers - running away, "martial arts," bringing a dog - failed her - although older, he was simply stronger, faster and far more ruthless...

 

[siglite]

This happens here in Appalachia, and when it does, it's rarely documented. I personally have used a firearm in self defense against a dog, have stumbled upon an old meth lab, and have met numerous highly sketchy folks, whom, in the absence of a visible firearm likely would have made a victim of me.

Just about all of my friends have personal anecdotes of a firearm keeping peace in the woods and hills. Of the incidents relayed to me, I can't remember if a firearm was ever actually presented. And by, "presented" I mean actually drawn and pointed at someone. Usually, it's something along the lines of, "this dumbass had threatened us twice before he saw the <insert handgun brand/type here> riding my hip and suddenly decided he and his fourwheeler had a pressing engagement elsewhere."

Unfortunately, I have terrifying personal experience regarding the lengths some growers will go to just to protect pot fields. (I will not be elaborating).

Documentation or no, my personal experience and those of my friends have made it damned certain that if I'm in the woods/hills in Appalachia, I am armed to the teeth.