CCI primers for .223/5.56

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JohnnyRotten

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I recently stocked up on some CCI #400 small rifle primers in anticipation of starting to reload a new caliber(.223/5.56).

I was then talking to a reloading buddy that said to only use CCI #41(package says for 5.56), which I had never seen before, until today... So i am wondering if anyone has any experience with either of these brand and size of primers, and might have some advice.

I have only loaded straight wall pistol before and should have done some more research before pulling the trigger (pun intended). The intended rifle will be an AR platform, if that matters...

Do I need to get rid of all these primers or will I be ok??? :banghead:
 
You might get some slam and double fires with 400s. I got like two out of a thousand. Use 450s or #41s if possible. Both have thicker cups and the 41 has been desensitized for floating firing pin applications like the ar15. For bolt actions, they're all good.

edfardos
 
All I've ever used since I started reloading .223 in 1970 has been standard #400 CCI Sm Rifle primers.

I had issues with doubling early on.
Because I was not getting all the primer crimp out of the GI cases I got free at the time.
So I was smashing them in with the primer arm on my Rock Chucker press.

I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.
Started swaging primer pockets.
And started using a RCBS hand-priming tool so I could feel it when one wanted to resist going in.

Never another problem with doubles or slam-fires when loading for AR's and Mini-14's in the last nearly 40 years.

Use them, but seat them right without smashing them in, and they will be perfectly fine!

rc
 
#41 primers are supposed to have a harder cup to avoid slam fires in rifles with free floating firing pins, like the M16, AR15, M14, and M1 Garand. It's been debated quite a bit whether or not they're necessary in an AR. The large rifle primer equivalent is CCI #34 primers. It's pretty much accepted knowledge that the M14 and M1 Garand rifles need the harder primers, but again, its been heavily debated if they're required for AR's.

I use CCI 400's (and Tula KVB-223M). I started using them before I knew better. I just use a little extra caution at the range. Now that you're aware of the difference you have to make a decision for yourself.
 
The CCI#41 and CCI#34 primers are both NATO rated and meant for use in semi-auto rifles. They do have a thicker cup and are magnum strength.

If at all possible I use in this order for the .223/5.56mm:
CCI#41
CCI-450
CCI-400
Rem 7 1/2 BR
Win WSR

I have loaded countless .223 rounds for an AR-15 with CCI-400 primers without a problem. I have loaded countless 30-06 rounds for an M1 with WLR primers without a problem. when I can I use the NATO rated primers, when I can't, I can't...
 
Wow!:eek: Now I have some decisions to make and a lot of reading to do! Thank you all for the QUICK replies, opinions and links to some great articles!

I LOVE THIS WEBSITE!!!! Or should I say all the AWESOME people that make it an AWESOME WEBSITE!!!!

P.S.

If anyone wants to continue to chime in, the more the merrier! :D
 
JohnnyRotten said:
I have only loaded straight wall pistol before and should have done some more research before pulling the trigger (pun intended). The intended rifle will be an AR platform, if that matters...

Do I need to get rid of all these primers or will I be ok???

Sounds like this is your first go around with bottle necked rifle rounds and with a semi-auto rifle, yes?

Here are a few things you need to be aware of.

The 223 and the 5.56 case is the same, do not get caught up in the internet myths that the cases are different.

Many 5.56 and some 223 cases will have a crimped primer. This has to be removed before you seat a new primer. I also like to Uniform my primer pockets with one of these. I chuck mine in a small drill, I do not use the handle.
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/...87_a_7c1021_a_7c749003711_d_749003709_d_20601

Once you remove the crimp and uniform the pocket your 400 primers will work just fine as long and you seat them all the way and below flush.

You will also have to full length size your brass, neck sizing is not an option. Once you get your FL dies set up, check your empty sized brass in the rifles chamber before you load and powder/primers or bullets. The empty case should chamber and extract with ease. If it does not you need to adjust your sizing die until it does.

..and don't forget the case lube, rifle cases need to be lubed before sizing.
 
I'm a pretty new reloader compared to many on thr, but over the past couple years I've loaded and shot a few thousand 223 rounds out of my bushmaster ar using cci 400 primers. I've noticed that if you chamber a round then eject it before firing, there will be a small mark in the primer from the free-floating firing pin. It's never caused a slam or double for me.
 
I've had overcharged .223 cases that were difficult to extract (scary) and the CCI #400 primers still held, although they had muffin tops.

Of more concern to me would be compatibility with the powder being used. I was led to believe that the 450's were better suited to ball powder, for one reason or another.
 
I have a bushmaster and use the CCI 41"s because I have them, although they cost a little more. I have seen the "small mark" you mentioned on the primer, both on the bushmaster and my friends Saiga, which has the AK type action. I think this is typical with many of the semi autos with free floating firing pins.
 
If you ever want to earn your Distinguished Rifleman badge, which I did, you end up spending every weekend at an Across the Course Match shooting around 88 rounds for the day. Even though that is less than many shooters do busting rocks in the quarry, the cumulative round count easily adds up to where you are replacing a barrel once a year, maybe in two years. Also, the people around you are shooting thousands of rounds in competition and you have this wonderful database of experiences to draw from, or add to.

Everyone who makes it to the Master Class or High Master level has heard of, or seen, or worse, had, a slamfire in a AR15. They typically occur in the standing stage when the muzzle is depressed and you are single loading. I had one with the new brass plated WSR's, which Winchester made more sensitive than the pre 2000 nickel plated WSR's. Sure scared the heck out of me, it was an in battery slamfire, during the standing stage and it took a divot out of the grass in front of the firing line. The bud on my firing point, when he was finished scoring me, he got up, loaded his AR15 single shot, and his rifle slamfired in battery. He was using Federal primers. I talked to him a number of years after that slamfire and he had another with Federals and was the last he used federal primers in his AR15. Federal now offers their mil spec version of their primer, which according to the ads, has a thicker cup. Both of us lower the bolt part way, in the standing position, before letting go of the charging handle. I also fire my sighting shots for rapid fire, from the magazine. I can't do that long range so I still toss a round in the chamber and hit the bolt release. I have never seen a AR15 slamfire in the prone position, so I think that little extra acceleration due to gravity makes a huge difference in the standing stage. Incidentally, the NRA used to let you load your rifle on the shooting stool. When Garands and M1a ruled the firing line that was not a problem, the muzzle was up when you loaded. However AR shooters put their muzzles on the stool, and hit the bolt release. Enough AR's slamfired through the shooting stool that the new rule was created for the safety of all competitors.

All fire arms with free floating firing pins are susceptible to slamfiring because primer sensitivity varies greatly. Commercial primers are made to go bang in everyone's mechanism, and there are a lot of mechanisms that have very weak ignition systems. Military firearms tend to have robust ignition systems, and military primers are less sensitive, on average, than commercial primers. However, slamfires with both types of primers occur, it is just the slamfires with military primers are less frequent. Never assume the rifle won't go off when loading, it might.

The military developed the #41 primer because early M16's were having slamfires. This is the appropriate primer to use in a AR15 type action as it has the lowest chance of a slamfire in this mechanism.

I found a 1960's test report where six M14's were being fired 6,000 rounds each. One slamfired out of battery with just a little more than 5,000 rounds through it. I am assuming the military slamfire probability for mil spec small rifle primers is the same for mil spec large rifle, so the chance of a slamfire each shot, with mil spec primers, is around 1:35,000. Commercial primers would be higher, maybe 1:3,000, maybe 1:10,000, hard to know without real test data.

CCI 400 primers are excellent primers, they seem to have thick cups, if mil spec primers are not available, I would use them over brass WSR and Federal match in AR's. I have not found the mil spec Feds, I would use those if I found a sheave cheap. I have shot HM scores all the way out to 600 yards with CCI #41's, they are an excellent primer, they can be hard to find, but they are my first choice in semi auto's.
 
I've used both and never had any issues. But I exclusively use the #41 primers simply because I can get them pretty cheap and they have mangun strength for getter igniting my ball powders.
 
I've reload, shot and reloaded many, many thousands of rounds of .223 through my AR using CCI #400 primers with no issues. As long as you follow proper reloading procedures there will be no issues.
 
I have used many flavors of small rifle primers in my AR rifles including CCI 400. No problems.

That said, currently I use Remington 7-1/2 in 17 Remington and 204 Ruger AR-15 loads, and CCI 41 in 223 Remington and 300 BLK.

If I did not buy in 5000 unit quantities and was still relying on local sources, I would probably still use CCI 400 primers in my AR-15s.
 
I have always used CCI 400 primers. Down here in Columbus, Ohio went to Cabela's today and low and behold they had two 1,000 primer boxes of the CCI #41 so I got one box to give them a try. I figured why not and the CCI 400s were around 39 per 1K and the #41s were five bucks more. Wife said I should have grabbed both but we will see how this 1K shoots.

Ron
 
I too have used the CCI 400 and other brands of "regular" SRPs in many, many, thousands of .223 rounds in ARs. Nary a slam fire. Nary a mis-fire.

As RC points out, it's very important to fully remove any military crimp from the primer pocket. It also is really helpful to use a hand priming tool such as Lee or RCBS. That way you're sure the primer is fully bottomed out as it should be.


Oh, and $5 difference is a deal killer with my budget manager.
 
Primers and things that go Bang. (not firework)

9/22/11 had a misfire with a CCI 400 primer. First primer misfire in 40 + years. It did fire on the 4th firing pin strike. Over 1300 of the same lot number now used, same 223 bolt rifle, no problem. Did have some surplus 30-06 ammo that produced hang fires. In a 22-250 had CCI mag primers fire into H450 powder and the powder stopped burning. Had primer cups blow out on the radius. So anything is possible i guess.
 
Late to this question but figured I'd chime in.

Like Slamfire, I've been an NRA Highpower competitor and have fired my fair share (more than?) of reloaded .223 ammo. My stand-by load was Varget and a CCI-400 primer for the longest time, because it shot well, I could get my hands on the combustibles easily and affordably and the primers didn't blow out like brass Winchester SR primers.

After the 2008 scare I ended up switching up to whatever I could get my hands on. To date I've tried CCI-BR4s, CCI-450s (not really needed with Varget powder and accuracy of my ammo suffered, great for 100-yard loads with 748 ball powder though) and Remington 7 1/2s, in addition to the aforementioned CCI-400s and brass Winchester SR (which I have NOT used in 8-9 years). I have one 1k count sleeve of the CCI #41s on hand too, picked up when I found them in 2008 or 2009, but have yet to load a single round with them.
 
Clean your primer pockets. It is a P.I.T.A. but it's the only way to know primers are fully seated.
 
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