CCW 1860 vs 1858

[Bagheera]

Hi everyone,
If you'd carrying a snubby BP revolver for self defense,
Would you carry a

>Remington1858 (bulldog homemade)OR an
>Avenging Colt 1860 ?

Other question,Do you think reload is relevant ?,knowing that if you got to reload, it wouldn't smell good..(@lthough still that good BP smell ; )

 

[rodwha]

I’ve never handled a Colt revolver before so my thoughts are likely a bit uninformed. I do have a Remington NMA and ROA and feel the NMA would do nicely, especially if a new front sight were installed as I’d wonder about it snagging. The hammer on the Colt also seems more prone to snagging as possibly the wedge.

Reloads? Not likely. Most encounters, I’d think, wouldn’t be with such determined foes. Most people fear being shot and would either back down or run when a shot is fired. But if one is in that sort of situation a preloaded NMA cylinder would be quick and easy.

I’d think an Uberti Colt Police would make for a better CCW weapon, though you’d be trading .45 ACP performance for about .380 ACP performance. But then again most people don’t want to be shot and just having it would likely defuse the situation (unless you owe the drug dealer, pissed off the biker or local thug).

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Other question,Do you think reload is relevant ?,knowing that if you got to reload, it wouldn't smell good..(@lthough still that good BP smell ; )

Mogli and Baloo say: If you are in a gun fight that requires you reloading and the bad guy has a mag fed semi auto, he already has your location from all that beautiful BP smoke (and smell) and he will soon be standing over you with his gun to your head.

For CCW, a 9mm Kurtz (.380) Walther PPK or a 1922 FN/Browning (not the '68 target sight version) fit very well in your pants or jacket pocket with room for a few extra mags in the other pocket but you give up the smoke and the smell when you get into the gun fight.

 

[Bagheera]

Well I agree but I'm taking BP here..
Let's say u don't have access to any post 1900 s firearms..
For example I have an iver Johnson in 38 SW loaded with smokeless,more reliable but less powerful..

Talking about old-school carry that would still be effective today in the streets..what do y all say?

 

[Bagheera]

I’ve never handled a Colt revolver before so my thoughts are likely a bit uninformed. I do have a Remington NMA and ROA and feel the NMA would do nicely, especially if a new front sight were installed as I’d wonder about it snagging. The hammer on the Colt also seems more prone to snagging as possibly the wedge.

Reloads? Not likely. Most encounters, I’d think, wouldn’t be with such determined foes. Most people fear being shot and would either back down or run when a shot is fired. But if one is in that sort of situation a preloaded NMA cylinder would be quick and easy.

I’d think an Uberti Colt Police would make for a better CCW weapon, though you’d be trading .45 ACP performance for about .380 ACP performance. But then again most people don’t want to be shot and just having it would likely defuse the situation (unless you owe the drug dealer, pissed off the biker or local thug).

What if using SLIX SHOTS for a 1860.. the ergonomics are more comfortable in the hand for a fast draw.Don't u think?

 

[Hasaf]

Hi everyone,
If you'd carrying a snubby BP revolver for self defense,
Would you carry a

>Remington1858 (bulldog homemade)OR an
>Avenging Colt 1860 ?

Other question,Do you think reload is relevant ?,knowing that if you got to reload, it wouldn't smell good..(@lthough still that good BP smell ; )

I would recommend looking at a .36 cal pocket police if you want to carry Black Powder. It is significantly lighter and more compact. Of the two you mentioned, I would go with a Short barrel Colt. I have had too much trouble with the caps wedging in the frame, preventing cylinder rotation, for me to trust the Remington style.

from here

 

[Bagheera]

Never tried the 58 but I heard it doesn't jam as bad as colts..
Do you use Slix?

 

[expat_alaska]

Hi everyone,
If you'd carrying a snubby BP revolver for self defense,
Would you carry a

>Remington1858 (bulldog homemade) OR an
>Avenging Colt 1860 ?

Neither. Unless either one is the only pistol you own, it is folly to entertain this idea.

Other question, Do you think reload is relevant ?,knowing that if you got to reload, it wouldn't smell good..(@lthough still that good BP smell ; )

In a word, no.

Reloads? Not likely. But if one is in that sort of situation a preloaded NMA cylinder would be quick and easy.

Please don't pretend you are in a spaghetti western with Clint Eastwood or (heaven forbid) Eli Wallach. Carrying a loaded and capped spare cylinder around in a pocket or pouch is not a good idea. Chances for an AD (accidental discharge) are something I would be very leery of.

Jim

 

[rodwha]

I would recommend looking at a .36 cal pocket police if you want to carry Black Powder. It is significantly lighter and more compact. Of the two you mentioned, I would go with a Short barrel Colt. I have had too much trouble with the caps wedging in the frame, preventing cylinder rotation, for me to trust the Remington style.
View attachment 779766
from here

Hmmm... I’ve read quite the opposite, that the Colts have cap jam issues frequently. I’ve put several hundreds rounds through my NMA without an issue at all. It’s been 100% reliable same with my ROA.

 

[rodwha]

Never tried the 58 but I heard it doesn't jam as bad as colts..
Do you use Slix?

I still have the stock Pietta nipples on mine, but have contemplated ToTW nipples such as what I have on my ROA. But then I haven’t had any issues so I’m not sure there’s much of a point and could buy more powder instead.

 

[rodwha]

Please don't pretend you are in a spaghetti western with Clint Eastwood or (heaven forbid) Eli Wallach. Carrying a loaded and capped spare cylinder around in a pocket or pouch is not a good idea. Chances for an AD (accidental discharge) are something I would be very leery of.

Jim

The NMA cylinder’s nipples are debated a little unlike a Colt. The odds of a flush strike on the ground setting one off is quite slim really. And it’s also been shown that without a barrel a ball under a nice load produced under 10 ft/lbs and wouldn’t likely do more than break the skin. Not to say one should be careless but if indeed one truly needed to carry a BP arm and a reload was wanted/needed I wouldn’t hesitate to do so. Under normal situations this should be just fine. Under the stress of being under attack maybe not so much as I’d imagine one might well be a bit nervous and shaky, not so calm and fluid, which indeed could cause one to fumble and drop it.

http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html

 

[Bagheera]

Neither. Unless either one is the only pistol you own, it is folly to entertain this idea.

 

[Bagheera]

Well I have an old iver Johnson in 38 SW (loaded with smokeless)not the utmost powerful round on the planet but at 7/10 yards away,I heard it sent many a man to its grave..

Tho the 44 Colt is a Hell of a round

 

[rodwha]

Well I have an old iver Johnson in 38 SW (loaded with smokeless)not the utmost powerful round on the planet but at 7/10 yards away,I heard it sent many a man to its grave..

Tho the 44 Colt is a Hell of a round

The .38 S&W round is rather similar to the .38 Long Colt, and that wasn’t known as a good stopper whatsoever.

 

[Bagheera]

38 SW is around 600/650 FPS..
Ain't gonna break a brick in a wall but a 32 SW (Wich I wouldn't carry) penetrates 15 inches 5 yards away..
It's not a Toy

Also homemade hallow points would certainly ruins any bad guys day in a 38 SW..

 

[Bagheera]

It seems like the 1860 with slix shots would work but without,
The Remington 58 probably wins in reliability and maybe precision..

 

[rodwha]

Maybe with a HP they’d be more effective. My thoughts on them is that with it being so heavy and slow they just don’t expand much if any and behave more like a FMJ and with a mediocre caliber they just don’t have much thump:

 

[45 Dragoon]

NEITHER !!!! THE FOLLY OF SUCH!!! LEAVE T.V. WESTERNS TO Hollywood!!! YOU NEED A BOTTOM FEEDER, ANYTHING ELSE IS SURE SUICIDE!!

Don't you hate that?! Some folks just can't stick with the topic, understand the curiosity of the question posed, don't have the ability to stay within proposed parameters, . . . .
I'm pretty sure the question wasn't about -is there anything better than an open top or a Remington . . . .
From what I gathered from the OPs question, which of an open top or Remington would be your choice? Nothing whatsoever about a D.A., semi auto, rocket launcher, grenade, machine gun . . .

So, hoping I'm clear about the question proposed, I'd go with -

The open top if it were a correctly "sorted" revolver and a reload wasn't paramount. With a cap post installed, I wouldn't feel under gunned. (At least for 6 shots worth.)

The Remington if a reload was paramount. An extra cylinder for sure. I'd have a carrier for the cylinder rather than just in my pocket (kinda like those that feel the need for extra mags.)

In fact, I sold my El Patron Comp (my previous "carry") and until I replace it with an "Outlaw Mule" Cattleman, my "accompanying" revolver of choice is either of my .45 Dragoons! That's what I'm most comfortable with and besides still being the most accurate revolvers I've ever owned, a S.A. is second nature to me.


Mike

 

[dickydalton]

NEITHER !!!! THE FOLLY OF SUCH!!! LEAVE T.V. WESTERNS TO Hollywood!!! YOU NEED A BOTTOM FEEDER, ANYTHING ELSE IS SURE SUICIDE!!

Don't you hate that?! Some folks just can't stick with the topic, understand the curiosity of the question posed, don't have the ability to stay within proposed parameters, . . . .
I'm pretty sure the question wasn't about -is there anything better than an open top or a Remington . . . .
From what I gathered from the OPs question, which of an open top or Remington would be your choice? Nothing whatsoever about a D.A., semi auto, rocket launcher, grenade, machine gun . . .

So, hoping I'm clear about the question proposed, I'd go with -

The open top if it were a correctly "sorted" revolver and a reload wasn't paramount. With a cap post installed, I wouldn't feel under gunned. (At least for 6 shots worth.)

The Remington if a reload was paramount. An extra cylinder for sure. I'd have a carrier for the cylinder rather than just in my pocket (kinda like those that feel the need for extra mags.)

In fact, I sold my El Patron Comp (my previous "carry") and until I replace it with an "Outlaw Mule" Cattleman, my "accompanying" revolver of choice is either of my .45 Dragoons! That's what I'm most comfortable with and besides still being the most accurate revolvers I've ever owned, a S.A. is second nature to me.


Mike

Mike is right a little bit. I say 6 rounds of 140 grain round ball at about 400 FPS or 8 rounds of 45 ACP at 1000 FPS? I'll carry the auto, thank you!

DSC00001

• dickydalton
• Feb 27, 2018

 

[expat_alaska]

The Remington if a reload was paramount. An extra cylinder for sure. I'd have a carrier for the cylinder rather than just in my pocket (kinda like those that feel the need for extra mags.) Mike

I am curious as to what kind of "carrier" you are referring to. Would the extra cylinder(s) be loaded and capped? IMO, bad idea, and I really respect your opinions, sir.

IMO, unless the OP has no option other than his BP fantasy situation, a cartridge handgun is the best way to go. I understand he is in France and they have few options, but he has posted on other threads on THR about shotguns, which are cartridge guns.

He needs to be taken with a couple grains of salt, and you need to realize that

Jim.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hey Jim!
Didn't know he was in France! But, if that's what they have to choose from, cartridge handguns may not be an option. And, if that is the case, your "fantasy" is his reality . . . . with or without salt . . .

The "carrier" or pouch would be on a belt, you know, like a holster and of course it would be loaded and capped! If you need to reload, capping is not something I'd want to do under that kind of stress! I've seen posts about "to cap or not to cap" . . . but, I fail to see why it would be so dangerous!? Unless you have extra long nip . . . cones, the caps are much more protected from being hit (such as dropping) than a primer in a cartridge. And, of course as with anything, the "perfect scenario" could happen but then again, when was the last time you dropped a cartridge and it hit a pointy rock and detonated the primer? If "those" kind of weapons are what one would have to choose from, believe me, I'd have an extra cylinder or two!! (Wow!! Now I'm waaaaay out there!! Lol!!)

Betcha more folks are injured or killed by cars than dropped Remington cylinders . . . .come to think of it, you don't drive do ya . . . . . that's dangerous . . . sometimes ya just gotta have a pair (not saying you don't, I mean folks in general). The old saying "better to have and not need than to need and not have" kinda fits, you just may need to exercise a little more care. After all they may not be firearms, but they are guns and you gotta treat them as such!! We need to be grown ups, even when "playing" with our favorite "toys"!!

Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

Dicky!! Hey!
Well, as I pointed out, an auto isn't a choice . . . . so, I'm right . . . a lot!! Lol! Wouldn't max loads of trip-7 and a ball be closer to 1000 fps ? I'm thinkin so . . .

Mike

Oooops, victim of my own mouth!! I don't think a cap&ball snubby can achieve anywhere close to 1000 fps. Maybe with an 8" tube. Dicky, you are right . . a lot!!

 

[Panzerschwein]

If a Colonel Colt's revolving belt pistol of naval caliber was enough for Wild Bill Hickok, it'll be enough for you to.

These old guns are not to be trifled with. I'd rather a skilled pard so armed with one of Colt's revolving pistols than a rookie armed with some plastic Mattel foreign made auto with a bucket of bullets.

Ain't no how gonna change ma mind, neither.

 

[Crawdad1]

Neither. As Cooldill said, not to be trifled with. So I would go with the '62 Pocket Police with a 4 1/2 inch barrel.

Its already set up and you can buy it right now in that configuration so you don't have to 'Bulldog' anything.

Nice and light with a nasty sting to it.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Neither. As Cooldill said, not to be trifled with. So I would go with the '62 Pocket Police with a 4 1/2 inch barrel.

Its already set up and you can but it right now in that configuration so you don't have to 'Bulldog' anything.

Nice and light with a nasty sting to it.

Yes a '62 Police would be my pick as well.