CCW - and the law

[JerryM]

Is it worth getting fired and wondering how you would feed and clothe your family to carry at work? Not for me. If I thought it was that unsafe I would look for another job. Otherwise I would obey the rules, and hope to find a way to get the rules changed.

Best,
Jerry

 

[Aaryq]

How can this thread exist? He's asking people why they break the law. I had a similar thread and it was locked. If you carry in a place that says you cannot carry you're breaking the law. If you ask people if or why they break the law, the thread should be locked.:banghead: Some rules for some people, other rules for other people *Sheesh, I should've taken the high road but I'm too frustrated*

 

[sonofodin]

No firearms, what about blades? Do we not have the right to carry blades as well as firearms? If they state you cannot carry a gun, does that count knives out too?

 

[BRASSM]

CCW and my Boss

Normally I am employed as an engineer. A few months ago I was employed at a Government installation. No firearms at all not even the guards, what a joke. Actually most of the guards wouldn't fare well against most of my playmates unarmed. Well I got laid-off. that's contracting for engineers in the big city.
Well now I'm employed temporarly as a part-time machinist. I do have a CCW and I do carry to and from work. And keep the Hi-Power in my locker, fairly close. The boss really doesn't mind, in that he has a Colt 1911 in his desk. The only concern he has is , why do I carry a 9mm. If I work late and leave at night I realize that I am resposible for my safety no one else.
My boss believes that 'Gun Control means hitting your target'

 

[sonofodin]

Right on. we all could only be so lucky....

 

[Aaryq]

It is all understood, THR. Certain unlawful behaviors are OK. Other unlawful behaviors are quite okay. I'll post the rest of my threads to meat your moderating criteria.

 

[Aaryq]

Bump for locking?

 

[TheOld Man]

Member


Join Date: 08-27-05
Posts: 67

CCW and my Boss
Normally I am employed as an engineer. A few months ago I was employed at a Government installation. No firearms at all not even the guards, what a joke. Actually most of the guards wouldn't fare well against most of my playmates unarmed. Well I got laid-off. that's contracting for engineers in the big city.
Well now I'm employed temporarily as a part-time machinist. I do have a CCW and I do carry to and from work. And keep the Hi-Power in my locker, fairly close. The boss really doesn't mind, in that he has a Colt 1911 in his desk. The only concern he has is , why do I carry a 9mm. If I work late and leave at night I realize that I am responsible for my safety no one else.
My boss believes that 'Gun Control means hitting your target'

I too am employed as a Machinist (degree in Mfg Eng) I've noticed that a lot of machinists keep a pistol in that large drawer that's in the standard tool box they all have. Usually a 2"bbl S&W or a Beretta.

 

[Car Knocker]

If you carry in a place that says you cannot carry you're breaking the law.

Far from being always true. In many states a prohibition on carrying at work or on other private property has no force of law, therefore one is not breaking any law by ignoring such a prohibition.

 

[Geronimo45]

the best means of defending your life in a potentially fatal situation is a gun, why would you forfeit willingly the right and means to defend your life because it's not legal or against corporate policy?

'Cuz being fired from a job can have devastating consequences to your career. Imprisonment can, too.
You carry and you get caught, you may be fired. When asked why you were fired, your next employer finds that it was due to you knowingly violating company policy without 'good' reason (as in: you were not under the immediate threat of a mob hit while carrying the gun). Not a thing companies like to see.
In a life versus livelihood scenario, most folks would choose to keep their life... but since most members (of the non-LEO/non-current Military variety) are likely at very low risk of encountering life or death situations, livelihood's more on the radar.

 

[Aaryq]

+1 Gerinamo. There may be no legal consequences and repercussions but imagine this for a moment. You carry your weapon in your car every day becase you don't have a CCL. You're breaking the law, but you bring your weapon to work that day. Your boss catches you. Not only do you get a bad report from this employer, but you also face the risk of legal penalties. Do you still choose to carry?

 

[pax]

Aaryq ~

Your thread was explicitly about carrying in places where carrying is illegal. This one is not; this one addresses the issue of carrying against an employer's policy, rather than against a law. I trust you are able to see a distinction.

Most of the moderating staff on THR has no particular stomach for locking threads unnecessarily. But we have an even greater aversion to getting hauled up on conspiracy charges or other such nonsense.

Discretion, valor, etc...

And as a further note, this thread was active before you began yours, and it was in the proper forum for the discussion. All factors.

pax

 

[Aaryq]

I apologize and will cease my stupidity. I don't understand why I was so angry but I ask for forgivenesss from the mod staff. Other THR members, learn from me and keep your temper in check. Pax, I apologize. It's not an acceptable excuse but working about 14 to 15 hours a week can cause a quick temper when even slightly provoked. My apologies.

 

[Jomax]

FWIW, you carry a gun to protect yourself against the real or perceived threat of physical harm to you or to another and you are willing to draw and fire that weapon only so as to stop that threat. Killing another human being is not considered to be a pre-approved part of self-defense. Let's get the wording right as is speaks volumes to intent.

 

[pax]

Aaryq ~

Eh, it happens to everyone online, now & then. Don't worry too much.

Takes a big person to apologize. I respect that!

pax

 

[ZeSpectre]

+1 on Pax's comments. We all have our "moments" but it's truely high road to make a public apology like that. Good on ya Aaryq.

Now back to the topic at hand, My local Dicks put up a "no firearms allowed" sign last week (and they sell firearms?!?) I'm pretty well known at the store so I had a chat with the manager who was UNAWARE that someone had stuck the sign in the front window. Now I know this guy well enough to believe that he wasn't feeding me BS so he removed the sign and I let it go.

Got a call last night from one of the sales guys (a fellow Cowboy Action Shooter) who said somebody put ANOTHER sign in the door and he'd noticed identical signs in the doors of other nearby shops but when asked none of the managers knew a thing about it so now they are starting to suspect somebody is planting the signs.

I guess my point is that sometimes signs aren't even worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[snerd]

Greetings all, my first post since joining today.

Blinkin357 wrote:

"I'll be leaving my firearm at home

It's a tough situation for many of us. I may live to regret carrying at work but so far, so good. My employer has no stated policy but can terminate any employee without cause at any time. So I'd expect termination rather than mercy if they ever discover my firearm. Like others, I'd be hard pressed without this paycheck.

An added problem is a new Florida law against having firearms in employees cars in an employers parking lot. I don't know if the employer has to tell us about a parking lot restriction or not. It makes me wonder what good it is to even have a permit any longer.

After carrying for decades, you've got me thinking and I may stop carrying out of fear of job loss."


I'm new to CCW and am in the process of shooting lessons, CCW class, etc. I've just about memorized the Oklahoma SDA (Self Defense Act), and am very happy to see that it is against Oklahoma law for an employer to prohibit you from storing a firearm in your vehicle in the company parking lot:

Title 21 Oklahoma Statute 1289.7a.

Transporting or storing firearms in locked vehicle on private premises - Prohibition proscribed...

A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer or business entity shall maintain, establish or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked motor vehicle, or from transporting and storing firearms locked in or locked to a motor vehicle on any property set aside for any motor vehicle.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer or business entity shall be liable in any civil action for occurrences which result from the storing of firearms in a locked motor vehicle on any property set aside for any motor vehicle, unless the person, property owner, tenant, employer or owner of the business entity commits a criminal act involving the use of the firearms. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to claims pursuant to the Workers Compensation Act.

C. An individual may bring a civil action to enforce this section. If a plaintiff prevails in a civil action related to the personnel manual against a person, property owner, tenant, employer or business for a violation of this section, the court shall award actual damages, enjoin further violations of this section, and award court costs and attorney fees to the prevailing plaintiff.

D. As used in this section, "motor vehicle" means any automobile, truck, minivan, sports utility vehicle, motorcycle, motor scooter, and any other vehicle required to be registered under the Oklahoma Vehicle License and Registration Act.

Just wanted to say three cheers for our legislature for "getting it".

 

[scurtis_34471]

An added problem is a new Florida law against having firearms in employees cars in an employers parking lot. I don't know if the employer has to tell us about a parking lot restriction or not. It makes me wonder what good it is to even have a permit any longer.

There is no such law. What happened recently was that a law was proposed that would have barred employers from searching your car. That law was shot down. There was a more targetted law proposed last year that would have barred employers from disallowing guns stored in locked cars on company property. It didn't pass either. There is no law in Florida that says you cannot have a gun in your car at work, but there is nothing in the law to prevent your employer from firing if you do and they find out.

 

[Caimlas]

I have thought about that for my next job. I guess I would really be called to task if they did notice and pointed me towards the door.

My dad did something similar recently with (IIRC) an NDA he received and was required to sign by HR. He didn't - it "got lost" in a pile on his desk. I didn't have that luxury at that specific job, as they had me fill all this paperwork out on my first day, in a closed office with a couple other new employees.

That's OK - I wrote really, really small.

I guess you could also say, "mind if I take these documents home and make copies for my own records?" - though that might flag you as the litigative type.

In regard to laws, and rules in general... I'm fond of a quote by St. Augustine: "An unjust law is no law at all." Does a law (or rule) violate the natural state of man and give society no benefit? Does it deny a natural right?

 

[WeThePeople]

In Kentucky anyway, there is absolutely no force of law regarding any private individual's (person or corporation) prohibition on carrying a weapon. So, you're not breaking the law by doing so. What they can do is ask you to leave and then press trespassing charges ONLY if you refuse to do so.

In regards to employment, in Kentucky and many other states, you can be fired for any reason whatsoever, even behavior that is completely legal. So, technically speaking, your employer can fire you just for having a CCW license if he wants to even if you've never carried or even owned a firearm.

My brother was canned in PA because someone overheard him talking to another gunner about going to the range and practicing double-taps (one in the chest and one in the head). The person who overheard the conversation reported it to management and my brother was unemployed literally within minutes of the conversation with no chance to defend himself. It was all perfectly legal. He was a low-level employee. Had he been management, I'm sure that he would have been given a chance to right the perceived "wrong."

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If you carry in a place that says you cannot carry you're breaking the law.

Not necessarily. In a post office, or a school, or in any place that the laws of YOUR state say you cannot carry, you are breaking the law. If there's a hand-scrawled "Go gunz allowed" sign pasted in the window of my nearby convenience store, I am not breaking any law if I ignore that sign. If an employer (such as the one from which I resigned three days into a new job) promulgates a corporate policy saying that employees can't carry on company premises (while not in any way attempting to prohibit customers from carrying on those same premises), I am not breaking any law by carrying, I am only violating a company policy. I might be fired for doing so, but I cannot be arrested for doing so.

This is why I wrote in my previous post that this is really two questions ... or one question requiring two answers. You seem to have the two facets of the issue confused.