CCW'r Shoots Cop in Head 4 Times

[Defensory]

The fallen officer called in the plate number of the suspect vehicle and requested backup, shortly before he was killed. He followed established procedures to the letter.

Definitely NOT the actions of a "rogue" cop who wanted to "off" a "poor, helpless, innocent citizen" at about 2:AM in the morning.

Four headshots at very close range for "self-defense"?! I don't think so. One headshot would've done the trick.

This sounds like an execution to me. I predict that the suspect will be going to the slam for a very long time.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Four headshots at very close range for "self-defense"?! I don't think so. One headshot would've done the trick.

You seem to be of the misconception that head shots are always incapacitating.

 

[dogmush]

The U.S. legal system requires ONLY that the agents of the State (i.e. courts, judges etc.) must maintain a presumption of innocence.

As an individual citizen, I'm entitled to hold and publicly express the opinion that I think the punk is guilty as hell.

If it turns out that I'm wrong, then there's no harm-no foul, since merely expressing my personal opinion cannot harm him or send him to jail.

Lest you forget, there's the 1st amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees my right to hold and express my opinion.

Just to pick nits, the first amendment only stops Congress from restricting your speach. Just for the record you have 0 first amendment rights on a privatly owned website.

As for the rest, my thoughts are with the LEO's family, and while possibly self defense, I have to admit the preliminary reports don't look like it. We definatly need more info.


And, as an aside, Dash-Cams in every cruiser is one of the few LEO-gadgets that I would vote to fund without reservation. Both for the LEO's protection and ours.

 

[Old Guy]

And, as an aside, Dash-Cams in every cruiser is one of the few LEO-gadgets that I would vote to fund without reservation. Both for the LEO's protection and ours. +1

Mandatory mic in grill as well.

 

[jrfoxx]

Quote:
Four headshots at very close range for "self-defense"?! I don't think so. One headshot would've done the trick.

You seem to be of the misconception that head shots are always incapacitating.

Agreed.Also, as I mentioned earlier, someone who is basically in a panic that they are about to die, probly wont just pull the trigger once, and then stop and say "ok, once outta do it". Nope, they will likely keep firing until the "threat" at leats hits the ground. I'll bet all of us can squeeze of four rounds before a standing person hits the ground from a fatal or incapacitating first shot, and until it does, one is likely to assume the person, who is still standing, is still a threat and keep pullign the trigger, especially if they are in a panic.

Look at the number of bullet holes sometime found in BG's that 2 cops can put in them, and they are TRAINED to deal with violent encounters and having to shoot someone. If they often dont stop after firing only one round, even when it hits COM or the head, I wouldnt expect "regular" people too.Also, even the state of panic firing I mention can happen wether you are paniced becasue you think you may be killed, or just paniced because you dont want ot go to jail/prison.Panic is panic, so please dont take my satements to mean I am siding with the shooter over the cop, becasue i'm inclined to suspect murder, not SD, but at this point, who knows.

I dont feel the number of shots in and of itself says anything. The angler, distance, etc will, but not just the pure number.

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

You mean it's only ok to do that when the media article is about a police officer right? The shoe is now on the other foot and I sincerely hope that some members here choke on it now that it's found it's way to their mouth err keyboard. I absolutely love the irony in this thread.

How many threads are here that are 150+ posts calling for the head of a police officer based on ONE small media article? What makes you think that a rush to judgment is ok then?

It's fun to watch the Brotherhood of the CCW badge close around one of it's own, just like the police officers who are members here are accused of all the time.

I'm not going to comment on what happened because there isn't enough information to make a judgment. Maybe the lesson here is that we shouldn't judge any of these cases on limited information.

Jeff

Hey man, Im just siding with the cop. 4 rounds to the guys head and a kid with a gun who ran. I dont think any of this has anything to do with inaccuracy. 1+1=3 right?

Botherhood comment: Not very nice. It is regardless if the guy has a CCW licence or not. He shot a cop then ran. We arent turning on our own, we understand that a CCW doesnt make a person different and to be determined a "good guy" b/c they have the CCW. Ive met alot of CCW'rs at our range that I (as an RO) have to ask to leave because they darn near draw on a guy because of falling brass. CCW'rs are people, and should be judged as people, not higher regard due to CCW. They can be a criminals too.

Choking on it: I certainly hope I do. While I do not agree with the term used or the manner in which it is used by a MODERATOR, I do agree maybe my judgement was a little to pretentious for the situation. For that, you have my apologies, but for your word and phrase choice, none of my respect. As a moderator, I dont believe you are here to "teach someone a lesson" or similar. You are here to manage the situation. Heaven forfend someone has an opinion based on the facts given. I may be wrong about the situation at hand in this article, but no reason is given to a High Road personality to indulge in schadefreude.

I am looking at the facts given not to mention common sense. I am not saying guilt or not, however, the kid is definitely in trouble. Witness? Not sure about that. A shot cop and a kid on the run. Whats wrong with this picture?

 

[Geno]

All emergency vehicles should come equiped with a black box that records the vehicles' speed, all manuvers and all systems' functions. The black box in should include audio and video 24/7, and that cannot be turned off and cannot altered.

All non-emergency vehicles, passenger and commerical, should offer the exact system for safety sake and for legal sake. Wow, that would cut down on bad tickets, and contesting good tickets. Imagine the person who denies breaking into your car, scratching your paint, or in my case, the durned fool who said he only rear-ended me at 5 MPH. Add a zero there Bubba!

My point, most people are not honest, and will lie to save their own butt. It makes me sick! We don't know who-did-what, in this case because there was no such device. It could be that the either one, or both individuals were in the wrong. That stated, we don't need to add a social wrong to the matter by jumping to conclusions.

Let the system run its course. If the shooter is innocent, innocent he will be found. If the shooter is guilty, guilty he will be found. Until we have those nice black boxes with cameras and audio, it's up to jury within the system to seek and affirm the truth.

 

[FieroCDSP]

I'd like to thank all of those here who have kept a level head about this thread. My posting of the second article was specificly to fill in some of the gaps and answer a few of the questions that had been posted because of the first one. I was careful to point out my own opinion, as well as what I had heard vs what I had verified.
I've been trying to follow this carefully, because this officer's name will come up again when the next CCW bill goes through the Ohio legislature. As you can imagine, the number of shootings that have gotten press here lately is not going to help us next time around, even if most of those shootings had nothing to do with the laws in the works or recently passed. This officer's shooting is the first that I've heard of that has a possible direct link to a carry permit. No, the permit didn't give him the okay to shoot, but maybe if it had still been suspended, he might not have carried his gun that night? If the OFCC's info is correct, the guy obviously didn't understand the law, or didn't care. Maybe he was packing at the bar again that night, got stopped afterwards, panicked, and shot the cop. Who knows?

How in this day and age does a police vehicle not have a dashboard cam with an audio feed?

At least two reports I've seen have said the car had a dashcam, but that it was non-functional for some reason. I haven't seen a marked Ohio cop car without one, though that's hardly telling. Most departments try to take care of their gear and their officers, even when the budget is tight. Maybe in this instance, the camera recently broke, there is no spare, and it hadn't been sent off to be repaired yet. I'm sure this will get looked into very thoroughly as well, and maybe some state money will come up to get each car a camera and each department at least one spare.

 

[ilbob]

1) the shooter will be found guilty of murder and get a LONG sentence.

I think that is likely. It does not matter why. He apparently killed a cop.

2) since there is no video, and the cop is dead,barring an independant 3rd party eyewitness to one side or the other (3rd party other than the GF) we will never know the truth for sure, unless the shooter confesses to murder.

People confess for all kinds of reasons unrelated to whether they committed a crime or not. Usually it involves a calculation of what the consequences are if you go to trial versus a plea. It is a little odd that the dash cam was off. I thought most of the time they are tied into the emergency lights so they come on and record whenever the lights are on.

Maybe the guy panicked when the cop tried to arrest him for loud music. That just seems so strange though.

I am guessing after the investigators have their chat with the GF, the SD claim will go away, and the GF will testify to avoid going to jail too.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Pure speculation, of course, but perhaps the car contained something more incriminating than a loud CD that the driver was concerned about.

 

[dogmush]

At least two reports I've seen have said the car had a dashcam, but that it was non-functional for some reason.

That makes me perk up a little. I'm always a little suspicious that when these recording devices aren't working exactly when they'd be really useful.

 

[hso]

There is too little real information for much of the wild conjecture posted in this thread. Unfortunately, that's usually the case with these.

CLOSED