Cfe pistol .44 magnum and .357 magnum

[AJC1]

357 Magnum Episode 9 - SW Heavy Pistol - CCI 500 Standard Primers vs. CCI 550 Magnum Primers

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12.6 grains hp had the best SD and es in my brief testing when comparing to #9. I was running spm when I got that good es.

 

[AJC1]

Preach it... Match quality ammo for half the price is kinda why I picked up this hobby (more like obsession actually). I've read about position sensitivity with certain powders, maybe that's what I'm seeing with my cfe load.

What is your case fill or what did grt predict.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

What is your case fill or what did grt predict.

GRT??? According to my nosler manual, with a 200gr jhp, a winchester case holds 24.0gr water at a trim length of 1.285, and a coal of 1.580. My trim length is 1.275, bullet seated at 1.590. So my case fill is approximately 50% @ 12gr cfe.

 

[AJC1]

GRT??? According to my nosler manual, with a 200gr jhp, a winchester case holds 24.0gr water at a trim length of 1.285, and a coal of 1.580. My trim length is 1.275, bullet seated at 1.590. So my case fill is approximately 50% @ 12gr cfe.

Grt is a free program called Gordon's leloading tool. It's modeling software that helps in load development.

 

[DMW1116]

I'd like to try some Blue Dot if I could find it. It appears I'd have to find SPP magnum primers, which aren't common right now. I want to try it in my 9mm rifle too. Trying to zero my 147 grain RMR loads isn't working too well. I'm out of elevation.

 

[JHTexas]

This should work for you:
Revolver, Colt Python 6”
Each charge was individually weighed.
Starline Brass 1.276" OAL
COAL 1.580"
CCI 500 SPP
Precision Delta FMJ-FP 158gr
CFE-Pistol 6.6gr
Velocity Average 1083
ES-62
12x

You can take the load up to 6.9gr max with a magnum primer per Hodgdon’s data

Es 62 holly smokes. My 7.4 grain load of herco had an es of 13 over 5 shots. I've tested loads like lilgun that have bad numbers, but I don't recommend them. Over 50 I consider not good. Have you tried that load with a 550?

I would always like my ES for pistol/revolver to be somewhere in the 30's but I've also found that the chrono results are just one variable of load assessment.
So after getting the chrono results from 12 shots I also test for grouping, recoil, powder burn, etc... the other things that are important to me in load development.
This load did good at 20 yards from a standing position, so I recommended it because of that and the OP also wanting to use a non magnum primer with CFE-pistol powder.
I've had some loads with low ES results that just didn't shoot accurately for me too. That's why in the end I also test for accuracy in the way I'll be using them.
I will be doing more testing around this load to see if there are any improvements in accuracy too. I will only chrono the rounds if I get better accuracy and share the results.

 

[AJC1]

I would always like my ES for pistol/revolver to be somewhere in the 30's but I've also found that the chrono results are just one variable of load assessment.
So after getting the chrono results from 12 shots I also test for grouping, recoil, powder burn, etc... the other things that are important to me in load development.
This load did good at 20 yards from a standing position, so I recommended it because of that and the OP also wanting to use a non magnum primer with CFE-pistol powder.
I've had some loads with low ES results that just didn't shoot accurately for me too. That's why in the end I also test for accuracy in the way I'll be using them.
I will be doing more testing around this load to see if there are any improvements in accuracy too. I will only chrono the rounds if I get better accuracy and share the results.

I read report after report of irratic ignition of that powder in 38/357. It's definitely not you or your testing I'm challenging. I shared a common experience saying it's a bad fit, so that was what I was trying to highlight. I'm having the same fight with Lil Gun and will be testing a srp mext outing. If I get better results I may try a SRM. I don't know the relative power of a shotgun primer to any of our rifle/pistol primers so I give a look under the hood to see if there is anything to see. I also continue to search the forums and youtube to find an answer that may be out there.

 

[JHTexas]

I read report after report of irratic ignition of that powder in 38/357. It's definitely not you or your testing I'm challenging. I shared a common experience saying it's a bad fit, so that was what I was trying to highlight. I'm having the same fight with Lil Gun and will be testing a srp mext outing. If I get better results I may try a SRM. I don't know the relative power of a shotgun primer to any of our rifle/pistol primers so I give a look under the hood to see if there is anything to see. I also continue to search the forums and youtube to find an answer that may be out there.

No worries, I’m not taking anything in a challenging way, it’s all good.

I’m just trying to help the OP with what he said he wanted to use.
CFE-Pistol powder, non magnum primers, and a affordable jacketed projectile.
Those constraints may or may not produce what he’s looking for.
Did I miss how accurate of a load he’s looking for? His shooting abililties may be way better than what I can do, so there’s another variation.

I did test this same load with a Hornady XTP 158gr and it had a ES of 37 over 12 rounds.
I still need to test it for overall accuracy. When I test loads for accuracy I usually evaluate about 72 rounds and let the results speak for themselves. I just haven’t gotten there yet.

I did test MBC SWC 158gr with this load ES-39, but the accuracy was not there. Just not a good combination…

 

[mdi]

I think they used a Contender pistol. Kinda misleading if you ask me. I reduce my estimates accordingly. Lyman at least uses a 4” barrel on a universal receiver. Hornady uses a 6” Python.

Probably a Universal receiver with a 10" barrel. Always wondered about the condition of the test barrels. Wear and tear from thousands of rounds?
I used a lot of Unique and 2400 for my Magnums and they did everything I wanted/needed (I had a raging case of "Magnumitis" for a few years and pushed my Magnum loads to max many times, especially my 44 Magnums).

 

[AJC1]

Probably a Universal receiver with a 10" barrel. Always wondered about the condition of the test barrels. Wear and tear from thousands of rounds?
I used a lot of Unique and 2400 for my Magnums and they did everything I wanted/needed (I had a raging case of "Magnumitis" for a few years and pushed my Magnum loads to max many times, especially my 44 Magnums).

Magnumitus. Sounds like I need some of that

 

[JHTexas]

I read report after report of irratic ignition of that powder in 38/357. It's definitely not you or your testing I'm challenging. I shared a common experience saying it's a bad fit, so that was what I was trying to highlight. I'm having the same fight with Lil Gun and will be testing a srp mext outing. If I get better results I may try a SRM. I don't know the relative power of a shotgun primer to any of our rifle/pistol primers so I give a look under the hood to see if there is anything to see. I also continue to search the forums and youtube to find an answer that may be out there.

I'm curious about the reports that you read. Were they with CFE-Pistol and lead bullets?

Just wondering if there might be any correlation there, Jacketed vs Lead.

 

[AJC1]

I'm curious about the reports that you read. Were they with CFE-Pistol and lead bullets?

Just wondering if there might be any correlation there, Jacketed vs Lead.

A few of them were in my 357 observations thread.

 

[JHTexas]

Zero 44 Mag. 240gr on sale “Big Bore Bob”

https://www.powdervalley.com/product/zero-431-240-gr-jsp/

 

[Shivahasagun]

.357 mag. I got about 1050 fps average from .1 gr off a full charge from the Lee manual.

3 inch barrel, 158 gr XTP. A little slow for that bullet but for what you want it will do.

CFE-P also worked great under a 180 gr lead bullet. Best results I've had from CFE-P. And I've been disappointed by it many times.

It likes near-max or max loads.

 

[mdi]

Off topic?? "Magnamitis" can be painful and harmful to you and your guns. When shooting heavy loads in my Ruger Super Blackhawk, if I didn't wear a glove or I forgot to put a Band-Aid on my middle finger, I often wound up with a split, bloody finger (square back trigger guard). I had to send my S&W 629 back to the factory for repairs. Many heavy loads and the barrel twisted to the left about 5-6 degrees. Fun but costly...

 

[JHTexas]

I did some more testing based on the OP wanting to use non-magnum primers with CFE pistol.
The test results that I have showed it to be a bad combination.
The powder is not burning efficiently enough in low and high loads, and therefore building up a lot of barrel fouling quickly.
The fouling came on after 12~18 rounds causing velocity spreads and bad accuracy with the heavy loads.
The lighter loads did better overall taking about 50 rounds before accuracy was affected.
The fouling was also harder to remove from the barrel than normal too, it was a dark black varnish.
If you want loads with non-magnum primers a faster powder might be your better option.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

. I had to send my S&W 629 back to the factory for repairs. Many heavy loads and the barrel twisted to the left about 5-6 degrees. Fun but costly.

How many rounds down the pipe before repairs were needed?

 

[mdi]

A year?, maybe 150-200 rounds per month (I have 3 other 44 Mag handguns). I had to keep adjusting windage before I realized front sight was moving left. Most of my handloads were with 240, 250 and 265 gr cast SWC and RNFP bullets with near max loads of Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, AA #9 and a lot of WC 820.

 

[SNfoilhat]

I did some more testing based on the OP wanting to use non-magnum primers with CFE pistol.
The test results that I have showed it to be a bad combination.
The powder is not burning efficiently enough in low and high loads, and therefore building up a lot of barrel fouling quickly.
The fouling came on after 12~18 rounds causing velocity spreads and bad accuracy with the heavy loads.
The lighter loads did better overall taking about 50 rounds before accuracy was affected.
The fouling was also harder to remove from the barrel than normal too, it was a dark black varnish.
If you want loads with non-magnum primers a faster powder might be your better option.

I to ran into the fouling aspect with CFE Pistol powder, but I was using it in 45 Colt loads in a Ruger Blackhawk & a R92 carbine. My loads were with a Sierra 240 gun JHC bullets, CFE Pistol powder & standard primers. Very accurate loads, but the black varnish like fouling was a surprise. I put 50 rounds through each gun with very good accuracy at 25 yards with the Blackhawk & 50 yards with the R92 carbine.
The black fouling cleaned up easy & it left me wondering if the black varnish like fouling is by design to prevent Cooper fouling. This was my 1st time using CFE Pistol powder.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

The black fouling cleaned up easy & it left me wondering if the black varnish like fouling is by design to prevent Cooper fouling

I had very little powder fouling using hornady xtp's, I didn't notice any black varnish with my loads. Maybe what you are seeing is carbon smoothed out to a shiny appearance. My barrel also cleaned out very easily. I really like cfe pistol for high velocity .45 acp and light .44 mag loads.

 

[SNfoilhat]

I had very little powder fouling using hornady xtp's, I didn't notice any black varnish with my loads. Maybe what you are seeing is carbon smoothed out to a shiny appearance. My barrel also cleaned out very easily. I really like cfe pistol for high velocity .45 acp and light .44 mag loads.

Yes I would like to work up some loads in 45 acp with cfe pistol. And yes your description of the fouling looking like "carbon smoothed out to a shiny appearance" is correct. With loads that I shot being very accurate, it diffinately deserves more work ups.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

I'll be working up some loads for the 9mm soon using cfe pistol. This powder seems like it's very versatile.

 

[AJC1]

I'll be working up some loads for the 9mm soon using cfe pistol. This powder seems like it's very versatile.

From reports I've seen it works really well in auto pistol rounds. I suspect that the much lower case volume, and greater fill gives much better results

 

[JHTexas]

I'll be working up some loads for the 9mm soon using cfe pistol. This powder seems like it's very versatile.

From reports I've seen it works really well in auto pistol rounds. I suspect that the much lower case volume, and greater fill gives much better results

I've had great results with it in 9mm, 10mm, 45acp when loading on the hotter side. Loading it for lighter loads showed poor performance for me.

Just to clarify about the bore fouling on the 357 magnum using CFE pistol powder. I was using a non-magnum primer where a magnum primer is suggested for CFE. This was done only because of component availability. I think the bad fouling was mainly unburnt powder accumulating in the bore. I have not seen this type of fouling in the other calibers I mentioned.

 

[AJC1]

I've had great results with it in 9mm, 10mm, 45acp when loading on the hotter side. Loading it for lighter loads showed poor performance for me.

Just to clarify about the bore fouling on the 357 magnum using CFE pistol powder. I was using a non-magnum primer where a magnum primer is suggested for CFE. This was done only because of component availability. I think the bad fouling was mainly unburnt powder accumulating in the bore. I have not seen this type of fouling in the other calibers I mentioned.

I don't know the optimum pressure for that powder, and that's important to know for good sd/es numbers. I suspect it probably does best at or above 30kpsi