Chalk outlines

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<raises hand>

Who has the Chalk left over from these Photo Shoots?

My guess is the guys (one in particular , about 6'5" ) are in trouble.
Not only does Barbara have the AR, she has the Chalk. :p

The female of the species is the deadlier of the two. - Kipling
 
What presentation of an AR would be acceptable to those you would like to convert?
Click to expand...

I like the poster, but I can understand why a more "civilian-looking" gun might be better. Oleg really nailed it with his comment about tackling one prejudice at a time. If there's anything we should learn from the propaganda success of socialists and other left-wing movements of the last century, it is to change people's opinions gradually.

Depends on what we're converting someone to, and what we're converting them from. This poster is great IF the viewer already thinks it is ok to defend themselves with a firearm, AND if they're not too affected by the "assault weapon" hype. That is, thinking the AR sprays it bullets everywhere, or shoots some kind of million-yard-range exploding bullet. If a person has some idea what the AR does, and is already on board with using guns for self-defense, you could use this poster to say, "If a woman has to defend herself, don't you want her to have the same gun that police prefer to use for hostile confrontations at close quarters?"

But I usually assume posters like this are aimed at non-gunnies, people that aren't sure if people should use guns for self-defense. To people like that, a civilian holding an "assault weapon" might look like a militia kook, not a responsible citizen. On the other hand, if you were holding a revolver or something else not so frightening, people would have an easier time picturing themselves owning and shooting such a gun.
 
Oleg, is there somewhere to get all of these wonderful tidbits of yours, without having to search for every post you ever made here?
 
Make sure it isn't around your body.
Click to expand...

I feel that shortening the second frase to that would carry the message across more efficiently. The "it's up to you" part should be tacit; it's understood.
 
I like the look on the models face. Barbara is it? It has that sort of half sleepy, shell shocked, ears ringing, OMG what just happened, look that I would expect from someone who has just faced what she did and suddenly realizes it's over and she's still alive. Good job on that.

I like the AR, but I wonder if the average non-gun owning person would think "I could never use one of those. You have to be some kind of expert to handle that thing."
 
I was doing my best to look very serious but the rest was caused by being whupped after spending a lot of time on the range that day.

I dunno. I still think we need to desensitize people to those rifles. They're a lot of fun. :)
 
The way I see it, you're trying to send two messages:

1. Having a gun for Home Defense is Good.

2. Black rifles are Good (the "desensitizing" issue.)

I don't think you can send both messages at the same time, at least not to what I think is your intended audience.

And while Barbara (with >2000 posts, hence obviously a gunny) may prefer the EBR for home defense, that is not the case for Jane or Joe Doe.

When they think home defense, they are thinking of either a handgun or a shotgun, in my opinion.

So, 3, think of those to whom you are directing the message.

Suggestion:

Drop the rifle and have her with a handgun, preferably a nice revolver, and not tricked out with super sights or anything. And reasonably small. Somebody suggested a snubby, and I'd go for that. Just my instinct talking.

And something that seemed disjunctive to me was the idea of a chalk outline in the home. I thought that was for pavement, so they could get the corpse out of sight, but investigators could still tell where and how the body laid. If she were posed in the driveway of her home, the "chalk outline" concept might be OK, but that raises the question of "was it a legitimate shoot?" since it was outside. (Do they even use chalk outlines any more?)

I love your stuff, but this one needs some more conceptual work.
 
230, I think with the chalk outline stuff you're thinking too hard. Most people seeing this poster are going to be analyzing that closely. And I think most are like me. I didn't know they didn't do chalking indoors.
 
Snubby? Disagree.

Respectfully disagree with snubby.

She's in a bathrobe, not an evening dress.

It's going to be a nightstand gun or stand-by-bed gun.

If it just has to be a sidearm, I would go bigger, not smaller. Nothing smaller than 4" and nothing smaller than .357/.38 -- heck, a nice 1911 would be right in line.

And on a NIGHTstand gun, a light or laser is hardly out of line.

Please deposit 2¢ in the slot provided.
 
Eleven Mike: I don't know one way or another whether they still use chalk outlines. Just thinking about it, I can't see the need for it anymore what with digital photos. Yes? No? I am not a cop. I agree that people still think "chalk outlines," but it was a disjunct for me if she were indoors. Again, if she were outdoors (in the driveway, maybe?) it raises the question in my mind as to whether it was justifiable. *

Arfin Greebly: I'm not married to a snubby, just something less mechanically intimidating than an EBR to the intended audience. I merely said a snubby would be OK with me. So would a bobbed 1911. So would an old M&P revolver. While you and I as "semi-pros" might agree that maybe a snubby (or 1911 or M&P) ain't the best HD tool, to the average person just starting to think about SD/HD, what they think of is a handgun (for those areas where handguns ownership is allowed.) Or maybe a shotgun, but as Barbara noted, a shotgun was too big for the image size.

I point out that there were a lot of comments on the EBR, so I'm not alone in my reaction to it.

I'm just trying to get a better coupling between the image impact and the intended audience --if the intended audience is Mr. and/or Mrs. Doe. Let the gun shop owner advise them further when they start looking for an SD/HD weapon. (Note I said "owner," not Pimply Pete.)

I'm not trying to overcerebrate the picture/message. I was simply articulating my immediate emotional reactions to the image as it stands and where my reactions led.

Nor am I going to wax defensive about it. Let the artist decide... but he was the one who asked for input.

By the way, Arfin, I believe you owe me four cents. I put my two cents in your slot, then realized that you were the one who had to put in two cents (i.e,. your opinion). So I want your two cents and my two cents back. I don't accept Paypal; you'll have to write a check.

----------
*
Let's not open up the Castle Doctrine in its various forms around the country and just leave it as indoors or outdoors versus chalk outlines.
 
well if you're going to appease the revolver guys with a revolver picture, could you make one for me with an RPG-7?
 
Changing the public's perception of an AR is one thing. Getting a non-gun owner to join our ranks is another.

IMO, it makes more sense to "lure in" new swimmers using the shallow end of the pool. Why send them off what they perceive to be the the high-dive right away?

It seems Oleg's poster might be more effective in opening the minds of individuals who already own guns, but none of those "evil" black ones.
 
I also think a plain pistol or revolver would fit the picture better. To introduce the AR, show Barbara having a great time at the range, or teaching a youngster how to shoot.

Due to inflation, my 3 cents worth.
 
I'd say we ought to leave it up to the Anti-Gunners to say why Barb shouldn't have an AR in her hand.

"Tell me Ms. Huffington, why do you think women shouldn't be allowed to own guns?"
 
Recycled post:

Mike Kelly, we're talking about the poster, and how it will communicate with people who might be on the fence about guns. We're NOT talking about what Barbara should actually use to defend herself.

There are a lot of other threads that debate what gun is best for HD, but I don't think this is one of them. The point is that most non-gun people who see the poster will have an easier time accepting a home-owner armed with something that doesn't look like a SWAT weapon. We'd like them to get used to the Evil Black Rifle eventually, but the argument is about whether we should bring them on board all at once, or go a little slower.

Again, I don't much care what Barbara uses to ventilate creeps, this is about the poster and what people will think of it.
 
I like it. To me it reads: the dead guy broke into this robed lady's house with every intention of harming her. Being well-armed, she was able to turn the tables and protect herself and probably her family as well.
 
I think it does a good job in showing non gunnies that AR's have a legitimate use.

I like it but then how many EBR's do I own...four...I think. Need to get an AK and another safe.
 
I think Oleg has made plenty of posters with revolvers. He already HAS been working in the "shallow end of the pool" for quite a while.

There's nothing wrong with also giving the anti's the opportunity to swim around a bit, even if they may still need a couple yellow floaties...

A good friend of mine keeps his AR with EOtech by the bedside when he is gone on trips, and his wife LOVES it. Her words: with this AR, and TAP ammo, I am the equal of anything or anyone that could comes through my door.

If more women got that, the tide would turn. I think posters like this one, when framed in the correct context, can be the biggest "women's lib" coup ever.

Nick
 
I think that most women who are not gunnies would not buy a SWAT rifle, nor would they willingly shoot one. I think the gun should be the gun that a relatively inexperienced woman who wanted a gun to defend herself with, would buy.
 
Eleven Mike;

I've read the entire thread up until now. I'm perfectly aware of what the debate is about.

The poster shows a woman holding an AR variant. She's either just shot someone and is calling the cops or she is calling the cops and she's about to shoot someone.

I personally could not care if an Anti-Gunner finds the poster offensive. Barb could be holding a revolver and they would be outraged. The people who would find the poster offensive are not the target audience.

You know who is? The 6 women I saw who were at my favorite range last month. They were there because it was something new to them. I spoke to one of them and she told me that all of them wanted to try shooting for the first time.

You show those women, (aged 22 to 30 in my guestimation) the poster of Barb with her rifle and it's going to put some more ideas in their head. Not scare them away. The one I was talking to was very enthusiastic about getting a chance to shoot. I spoke to her about a number of things and I even explained to her that Barb was the President of one of Michigan's most effective gun rights groups.

There are more women out there like the ladies I met last month. I've met lots of them. They're into something called "personal empowerment". They'll eat this poster up with a spoon.

As for the chronically outraged, pro-rapist hoplophobes, screw 'em. They are not going to be swayed to our point of view ever.
Why should we care what they think? They're very predictable.
 
Well, Mike, if you have some inside information about who Oleg made the poster for, you could have just said so. I like the poster, myself, and I agree it could be very effective among the target audience you mentioned. Since you've read the thread, you should already know that. But I'll reproduce them for you anyway. I don't need your lecture, so you can have that back and use it on someone else.

No complaints this time. Good shoot!
Click to expand...

I like the poster, but I can understand why a more "civilian-looking" gun might be better. Oleg really nailed it with his comment about tackling one prejudice at a time.....

Depends on what we're converting someone to, and what we're converting them from. This poster is great IF the viewer already thinks it is ok to defend themselves with a firearm, AND if they're not too affected by the "assault weapon" hype. That is, thinking the AR sprays it bullets everywhere, or shoots some kind of million-yard-range exploding bullet. If a person has some idea what the AR does, and is already on board with using guns for self-defense, you could use this poster to say, "If a woman has to defend herself, don't you want her to have the same gun that police prefer to use for hostile confrontations at close quarters?"

But I usually assume posters like this are aimed at non-gunnies....
Click to expand...
 
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