Changing gun-free zone policies on a local level?

[Rayna]

Not sure if this belongs in this section. If not, please move it.

Had anyone had any luck changing gun-free zones into concealed carry allowed zones?

Long story short, the library near me that I used to use on a weekly basis (and take my kids to) had an active shooter situation several months ago. Two people were killed. It was basically the straw that broke the camel's back for me as far as deciding to get my concealed carry license. Ironically, it is a gun free zone where I can't carry without committing a misdemeanor. Was gun-free before the shooting; nothing has changed.

I would like to get it changed. I talked to the library director today. As far as she could tell me, it's a municipal thing, not state mandated. She was very nice, and although I didn't feel like she personally wanted concealed carry in the library, neither did I feel like she was anti-gun, and she seemed very willing to talk to the people who would know whether\how it could be changed (including the city attorney).

I 'm just waiting till next week, hoping she'll call me back like she said she would. I have a hard time imagining the powers that be would just say 'oh, we hadn't thought of that', and wave the magic wand and take the sign down. If they don't, is it something petitioning could change? This is complicated a bit by the fact that I am neither a resident of the city or state in question; I live right over the state line in a rural area.

In the meanwhile, what are the good logical arguments for changing the policy (besides the obvious, that it did absolutely no good at preventing an actual shooting ) ? I was not articulate as I would have liked.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I’m sorry to hear about that situation

I will warn you, you’re in for a tough fight if you choose to fight the battle.
I had my classroom shot up and when I said that we needed to discuss the colleges gun free policy, I was attacked on many fronts. Someone even started a rumor that I was illegally carrying on campus (which I wasn’t)

 

[Rayna]

Yeah, I'm still very much in the information gathering stage. If the fight looks too hard, I may not fight it, honestly. I have 3 kids and there are only so many hours in the day. But I also figure if I want it changed, I need to at least try. I would say our area is in general pretty gun friendly.

There is another library in another town that I also use, it doesn't have any signs, but it also is a lot smaller and was likely to have what I'm looking for any given day.

 

[Rayna]

I can't imagine being attacked as you were after actually being in a shooting. It seems to me that it is as likely to turn someone for guns as against them, but only one option is tolerated by the antis.

The library director did mention that several employees had inquired about carrying on the job and had been told no by the powers that be.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I’ve always been pro 2nd Amendment but not into guns. I bought my first shotgun before the end of Obama’s first term, then decided to get a pistol and my conceal carry permit as I was worried about civil unrest following the election.

That aside, you’re right. After the shooting and being trapped unarmed, I’ve gone far right on 2nd Amendment issues.

If I can be of assistance to you, feel free to private message me. I’m always willing to do what I can to help others in our fight to regain and protect our rights.

 

[Rayna]

Hokie -
Oh, I was speaking generally, not about your situation particularly (not knowing anything about your past involvement or not with guns).
Thanks!

 

[cc-hangfire]

The low key way to see if it’s possible is to talk to your local representative on city council/commission. You do not need to stand at the public podium to begin - your councilman (I’m gonna use that term although the terminology varies greatly) is your point of contact. He represents you and local government is truly accessible; those folks know you vote them in of out (Dont threaten though). You’ll know from that conversation whether you have support or opposition at the city council level.

Get as many friends who think likewise to just talk to their councilman. At the local level, those reps deal with grandma’s pothole; if they get a groundswell of feedback they’ll likely respond.

And this is where us 2A folk need to work. National news doesn’t change local ordinances. The antis seem to have moved to the state level. We can cut their legs out if we can own our local level, our neighborhoods, cities, and counties. State reps and governors listen to local governments too.

I’m a registered professional engineer who has worked half my career in the private business side and the other half at staff level within local government. Our local governments - with all their problems - are still truely OURS. Those folks shop, worship, and eat with their constituents. Local government services are applied on your street & in your neighborhood. You can find them, speak with them, become their friend (sometimes), and inform them.

 

[Robert]

Check your local laws. The sign may not carry any kind of penalty. Here in Colorado only the post office and schools are true no carry zones. I'm sure the federal buildings in Denver are as well but I don't go there if I can avoid it. Our local government offices and buildings, save the court house, all have no display of firearms signs meaning you can't open carry. Private companies can put up a sign that says no guns but they do not carry any penalty of law. The most they can ask you to do is leave.

 

[Rayna]

The low key way to see if it’s possible is to talk to your local representative on city council/commission. You do not need to stand at the public podium to begin - your councilman (I’m gonna use that term although the terminology varies greatly) is your point of contact. He represents you and local government is truly accessible; those folks know you vote them in of out (Dont threaten though). You’ll know from that conversation whether you have support or opposition at the city council level.

Get as many friends who think likewise to just talk to their councilman. At the local level, those reps deal with grandma’s pothole; if they get a groundswell of feedback they’ll likely respond.

And this is where us 2A folk need to work. National news doesn’t change local ordinances. The antis seem to have moved to the state level. We can cut their legs out if we can own our local level, our neighborhoods, cities, and counties. State reps and governors listen to local governments too.

I’m a registered professional engineer who has worked half my career in the private business side and the other half at staff level within local government. Our local governments - with all their problems - are still truely OURS. Those folks shop, worship, and eat with their constituents. Local government services are applied on your street & in your neighborhood. You can find them, speak with them, become their friend (sometimes), and inform them.

Thank you, this is useful information. Unfortunately, I am not a resident of the city in question, so I do not have a representative in the city government. But, I was thinking last night about this more and I kind of figured that somehow getting it on the city council agenda might be the way to go - right now I'm thinking to ask those I do know who live in town to write letters, and maybe I can write a letter to the editor of the paper or something, to start with.

 

[Rayna]

Check your local laws. The sign may not carry any kind of penalty. Here in Colorado only the post office and schools are true no carry zones. I'm sure the federal buildings in Denver are as well but I don't go there if I can avoid it. Our local government offices and buildings, save the court house, all have no display of firearms signs meaning you can't open carry. Private companies can put up a sign that says no guns but they do not carry any penalty of law. The most they can ask you to do is leave.

As I understand the law in the state, the sign does have the force of law, and it's a misdemeanor to the tune of up to a year in jail.

Edited to add: and given what happened there, if I chose to carry anyway in the library and it was seen, I would not blame the employees at all if they called the cops first and didn't try asking me to leave nicely.

 

[GAF]

Learn all you can about this subject so you have the ammo to counter any of their arguments.
A year in jail seems to have the force of law behind it.

 

[entropy]

You have several things going for you; you are female, with kids, and to borrow from an anti, Rham Emmanuel; why let a good tragedy go to waste? Your presentation should include logic as well as emotion, it's for the kids, etc, Start out with a flexible plan, some facts, but be prepared to go to the emotional appeal when their eyes start to glaze over. When you've recaptured their attention, then switch back to the facts for a bit. Think along the lines of a defense attorney; refutation of the other side's 'facts', presentation of actual facts (crazed shooters specifically choose 'no-gun' zones, you've seen for yourselves that criminals won't be deterred by the law, etc.) supporting your position, followed by emotional appeal that would do Cicero proud. (If a licensed carrier had been there that day, it would have saved lives; refer to the Luby's shooting [Google it]) Maybe throw something in there about having a part-time security force that works for free.

 

[cjwils]

Don't know about your state, but my state has state preemption regarding the list of places where a concealed carry permit is not valid. Local governments cannot add to that list. Libraries are not on the state list, so concealed carry in a public library could not be banned here without state action, unless the library is part of a school.

 

[Rayna]

Don't know about your state, but my state has state preemption regarding the list of places where a concealed carry permit is not valid. Local governments cannot add to that list. Libraries are not on the state list, so concealed carry in a public library could not be banned here without state action, unless the library is part of a school.

Hmmm. I don't know. The state list of places where concealed carry isn't allowed includes private property where signs are posted, and though the library is not strictly private, I thought it fell under that. Something to research, I guess.

 

[JTHunter]

FYI - Rayna, in Illinois, buildings used for "governmental operations" or "funded by taxes" are forbidden places. The "No Guns" signs they (and private businesses) put DO have the "force of law". Each state has their own laws, as do some of the municipalities. It is this haphazard patchwork that compounds the problems.

 

[LoneGoose]

I used to live in a state where a "no guns" sign at the entrance of a building meant no guns by the law. One year, the county fair board posted a "no guns" sign at the entrances of the fair grounds. Several people ignored the signs, and the sheriffs turned a deaf ear to board members' complaints. The next year, they put "no guns" signs on every building in the fairgrounds. The board members got fed up with people complaining about CCW folks asking their buddies to "hold my gun while I go pee" - they quit all of that and from that year on it is a non-issue. This is an example of legally armed citizens doing what's legal and mostly being invisible while doing so. In this case, the people have spoken.

 

[cjwils]

"library is not strictly private"

In my experience it would be highly unlikely that a local library is private.

It might be possible that a public library is in leased space on private property. In that case, maybe the property owner could have restrictions. I am not sure about that.

 

[Rayna]

"library is not strictly private"

In my experience it would be highly unlikely that a local library is private.

It might be possible that a public library is in leased space on private property. In that case, maybe the property owner could have restrictions. I am not sure about that.

Perhaps that was badly phrased. The library is a municipal entity. I assume the building\land is city property, but I assumed that even though it was not truly private property the same rule would apply - that since whatever entity was in charge ruled no guns and put up a sign, it would be equally binding.

 

[cjwils]

I assumed that even though it was not truly private property the same rule would apply - that since whatever entity was in charge ruled no guns and put up a sign, it would be equally binding.

Gets back to my messages above that you should check to see if the state has libraries on the list of places where a concealed carry permit is not valid, and whether the state has preemption. There have been cities in my state that tried to ignore preemption, and they got slapped down by the state or by threats of lawsuits.

 

[hdwhit]

cc-hangfire wrote:
The low key way to see if it’s possible is to talk to your local representative on city council/commission.

But in the original post, the OP says he doesn't live in the town, county or even state where this has taken place. He says he lives in an adjacent state. Since he can't vote for/against any representative within the jurisdiction that controls the library, if the OP wants to influence the decisions these lawmakers are making, he needs to make lavish contributions to their re-elction campaigns.