Changing in Views

[sierrabravo45]

I had a change in views just about 15 minutes ago that I would like to share with you.

Before then I thought some of you were a little nuts. Not just a little bit; but of your talk of your Last Resort Guns, What "Condition" you were in, and stuff like that I thought some of you were not just a pickle shy, but half a barrel. I really thought there was some weird ones on this board.

That was until I saw this cruising the boards.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=254958

And then This.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/

Scary thing was I go down to SLC to shop. Been to that mall before. Fiance' went down there to look for a wedding dress couple months ago; I head down there to look for guns. It's a nice place, even though alcohol policies and taxes suck badly. (We can go into that on another discussion).

Before this the stories and reports didn't really hit home.

It wasn't that my views changed on Guns, but on HOW I CARRY.

I have shot competitively since I was 10, I am a NRA instructor. I have even worked behind GUN COUNTER selling guns. Do I carry. Yep, since I turned 21. Do I shoot my CC gun. Yep, probably 1,000 rounds a year. I sometimes even compete with it.

But The Question is.

DO I CARRY ALL THE TIME??

Nope. My opinion these days, its more of a hassle to carry. I haven't carried it in a couple of months. I used my CWP to make a gun transaction go easier a couple of days ago. And yep, I have a really nice knife I carry. But I have heard don't bring a knife to a gunfight. And that fight above I would have lost. Could I have helped in the SLC situation. Probably not. Even though I am LICENSED and ALLOWED TO CARRY. I haven't been.

So after really reading the posts I thought "So really what good am I"

Not much, I decided.

So with someone posting the links above. I would like to say thank you. Thank you, for hopefully your ONE post could help me out. Because it will get my ass back into carrying. Thanks for showing me, that my couple rounds could have helped. Thank you for showing me that even though I wasn't carrying this past time I should of.

I also did realize that yes, many of you are still a few pickles shy. Maybe a bunch more. But I would like to join the club.

 

[mattw]

Once you realize it only takes being in the wrong place at the wrong time ONE TIME, you start to get a little crazy about carrying and being prepared.

Welcome to GunNutville, population +1.

 

[bill larry]

Man, excellent post. One never know's, now do ya...

 

[BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE]

Now that you realize no one here is loony *looking for my tin foil hat* welcome to the club.

 

[Erebus]

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

I am wondering if anyone that was there had a permit and wasn't carrying and could have saved lives.

I am wondering if anyone who was there and didn't have a permit is now thinking about it. Or decided to get one.

I used to think that some of the people here were nuts the way they described how they were prepared for home invasions and such. Then I started reading stories about them and realized. Well the odds of it happening are real slim, but if you are unprepared you are really hot water if it does happen.

Since Katrina I have decided to keep extra bottled water and non-perishable food in the house, just in case. I'm not stock piled for months but I make sure that I can eat for at least a week without any means to cook. I have 2 alternative methods of heating the house should power go out for an extended time, propane fireplace on the main floor and a wood stove in the basement. After all I do live in New England and weather can get bad and cold quick.

I have learned that while things may not be likely to happen it's better to be prepared then get caught with my pants down.

I also have a backpack I can grab quick that has stuff I might need if I have to drive in a storm and get stuck.

Seems the Boy Scouts really have a point with that motto of theirs.

 

[skinnyguy]

There is one thing that MOST people cannot predict. That is how they would act in just such a situation.

I've bought and paid for a new pistol, I plan to get my CCW. That was all before today's incidents. In thinking on the situation, once I get my CCW, and I carry, I'd like to think that I would be able to draw and stop the shooter. Could I do this? I don't know, I've never been in the situation, and I won't know until I am put in a situation, I hope I never am.

I HOPE I could stop him, but things like fear, shock or disbelief at what's happening, and taking into account that in firing my pistol, I become a shooter also, and I am responsible for what gets hit with my shot. That last item MUST be taken into account in ANY situation, be it a BG or on the range.

 

[pacodelahoya]

It's funny that you used to, (maybe still do ) think that people who realize that there are other very bad people out there, and that they might possibly want to hurt the good people, so we want to be prepared, are crazy.



I think anyone who doesn't think it can happen to them is a friggin lunatic!


Nothing personal, and it's not my willingness to defend myself that makes me crazy....it's those pesky voices... always with the voices.....Who said that?...

 

[Zen21Tao]

I live of campus at a major university and usually always carry except when on university grounds (which in FL, at least at this university, is illegal). After going to class I am usually about 1/2 way to the coffee shop/bookstore I always study at. Rather than go all the way home to pick up my gun and then travel all the way to the coffee shop I would usually go the rest of the day unarmed.

Events like this really helped cement in my mind an acceptance for the idea of pocket carry. When I go to class now I can toss my Kahr PM40 (in pocket holster) in the glove box. Then after class when I get off school property I can just toss it in my pocket and go about my business.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

For you it was this new mall shooting.
The example I use to stop any discussion on whether I should carry or not is this:
Think of the safest place in America you can think of.
A one room school house in rural America might be the place that comes to mind.
Now think of someplace even safer.
An Amish one room school house in rural America, it practically brings a smile to your face just thinking about it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/

End of discussion.

The difference between paranoid and prepared, is something bad happening.
I, for one, am glad to hear you are carrying again; though I wish it did not have to happen this way.

 

[Hemicuda]

THe other day I was debating an anti... and my final statement to them was: "I'll make you a deal... you tell me the day (date) that I will NEED a handgun, and guarantee me that it is accurate, and I'll put my gun away and not carry it until then"

their answer was "how could I know that?"

MY reply: "EXACTLY!"

you couldn't POSSIBLY know when and if you will need your gun, but you CAN know that if you need it and don't have it, you're screwed!

A gun permit is only a step in the direction of self defense... but alone and by itself, all you could do is give the bad guy a tactical papercut...

 

[DesertShooter]

Two REAL-life incidents, condensed as much as possible:

Municipal police agency held a training seminar at a posh hotel in an adjoining city. The training was for the police supervisors, and it was a "touchy-feely" seminar on tolerance. The posh hotel had a "No guns allowed" policy, and even though the on-duty police were "exempt" from that policy, the Chief of Police told all personnel to keep their guns at home. Everyone complied. Well, shortly after the training started, a man wearing a "Ninja" costume (NOT JOKING!) rushed into the conference room, fired several rounds and yelled that he was robbing the place! At first, everyone thought that, perhaps, the "Ninja" was part of the training! He was NOT! The hotel management had switched conference rooms at the last minute, and THAT room would have been where a jewelry and diamond dealers show WOULD have been held! A couple of police supervisors got up and walked toward the "Ninja"....who shot them! After those two officers went down, the rest of the police "swarmed" the "Ninja" and disarmed him ("Ninja" died from being suffocated). The two officers that had approached the "Ninja" also died! One of them was the Chief of Police!

Second story: (By the way, I was going to go to this particular party, but had to work over-time!)

Several years ago, a police officer was going to be transferred to another division, and the officers he had been working with decided to give him a "going-away party" at a local tavern. Someone had spread the word that no one should carry their guns in, since alcoholic beverages were to be consumed. Well, 100% of the early arrivals went into the bar without their firearms. One officer was a late arrival, and wasn't aware of "No guns" word-of-mouth "ruling" that had gotten around. When the party was going strong, two armed men walked in, fired shots into the ceiling and announced that they were holding up the place. The two suspects had the "drop" on everyone, but didn't know that all of the patrons were police officers....until one of them saw a police I.D. card in the wallet of one of the officers! That suspect started to take aim at that officer! Before the suspect could fire, the ONE armed officer was able to find cover and unholster his weapon. "Police! Drop the gun!", that officer yelled. The suspect wheeled around toward the voice, with his pistol moving in the same direction. The officer fired at the suspect, and he went down. The second suspect then wheeled around and started shooting wildly toward the armed officer....who fired again, with the second suspect going down. Both suspects expired at the scene from head wounds! The officer had only fired TWO rounds! The suspects had fired a total of 12 rounds, but no one was hit! Funny thing, the Department actually "praised" the officers that had used good common sense by not mixing booze and guns, and "politely" chastised the officer that had saved the day (off-the-record chastisement) (ON-the-record, that officer was awarded the Police Silver Star for valor....the second-highest award).

I've CCW'ed for 35+ years (as a LEO and a retired LEO), and one thing has stuck in my mind over the years. I've never had to USE my concealed weapon, but I wouldn't leave home without it! Hey, I might have been "there" at that bar, without a firearm! While it is not advisable to be armed while drinking, I think that I'd rather be armed than dead! If I go to a bar, I limit myself to the amount that I drink.....TWO beers! Still sober enough to drive home AND/OR shoot defensively if I have to!

 

[Majic]

You can also look at this, those several months you didn't carry the fact is you also didn't need a firearm. Though you carry for a precaution seldom is it ever needed in most people lives.

 

[pax]

Good thread.

When I started carrying, I did so in part because we were a little too broke to afford a real safe in which to store my handgun. As long as the gun was on my hip, I knew where it was and that no one was getting into it without my knowledge. I did not like having the gun outside of my immediate control, so I never put it in my purse or left it in the car if I could help it. I had it on my body all the time.

After awhile, listening to everyone chatter online, I realized that it sounded outright paranoid to carry a gun literally all the time. But I still couldn't think of anywhere that my handgun was safer than it was while it was on my hip.

And I noticed something else: when I was carrying my handgun, I wasn't scared or paranoid or any of those other things the non-carriers accuse carriers of being. I didn't suddently feel all-powerful and invincible, either. What I felt was calmly confident that I could handle an unpleasant or even deadly situation if I really needed to do so. I was able to go about my regular business without a lot of the back-of-my-mind fear that most women experience on some level whenever they are out & about (especially in big cities, or in deserted areas after dark). I liked that confidence, and wanted to keep feeling it.

I've bought and paid for a new pistol, I plan to get my CCW. That was all before today's incidents. In thinking on the situation, once I get my CCW, and I carry, I'd like to think that I would be able to draw and stop the shooter. Could I do this? I don't know, I've never been in the situation, and I won't know until I am put in a situation, I hope I never am.

Good post, and good point.

You can really develop your confidence by getting some professional training. A good class will show you exactly where you stand so that you know what you are, and are not, capable of doing with that handgun. It will help you make solid decisions about what you are willing to risk trying if you ever do need to use the gun.

Like you, I have never been in a situation like that, so I guess I could say along with you that I "don't know" exactly what I would do or how well I would perform under that kind of stress. But I think there's an analogy here that might resonate with you maybe.

If someone were to try to hurt or kill one of my children, I KNOW how I would react. I might not know the exact tactic I would use to stop the person, but I KNOW I would try. I don't have to be in that situation to know in my guts exactly how I would react.

With me so far? Now for the leap:

My own life is as valuable to me as are the lives of my children. Not every woman can say this, but for me it is true. My life is worth defending with exactly the same level of ferocity I would use to defend the lives of my children.

So even though I have never been in that situation, I know in my guts how I would react. Just as I know how I would react if you attacked one of my babies.

pax

 

[JAB]

Not sure about Utah, but in my state you cannot carry into the mall, even with ccw. Not sure why but its of limits just like bank, post office, etc. Dosnt make any since to me.

 

[MrDig]

Until recently I too was of the variety that CCW was an unncecessary hassle for me. I am not allowed to carry at work, it is a Mental Health Facility. I am Uncertain I could even secure the weapon in my car and be Kosher. There for I have never bothered to get the Training and the Card.
I will get the certification ASAP and find a work around for the workplace issue.

 

[Zundfolge]

I've long been an advocate of 24/7/365 carry ... this only reinforces that notion for me.

I can think of a dozen THR members that live in the SLC area that CCW 24/7 that weren't there

 

[DogBonz]

short and sweet

There is nothing more useless in this world than an unload gun.

Having one, but not having it with you when you need it runs a close second.

 

[armoredman]

The what if game...what if I had been there, armed, what if a few THR's had been there, armed...what if CCW were universal...
God rest the souls of the slain, and roast the soul of the shooter. Heartfelt thanks to the off duty officer, and the on duty officers, who ended this violent confrontation. My sympathies to the families and survivors.
I CCW every time I can, because I also believe it will happen when you are least prepared, or expecting it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Need vs Perception of Need

"Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

Wise words that can relate to many things...including a defensive sidearm. Most of us who carry as a matter of choice rather than as part of a LEO occupation, and don't have a true need to carry...but a pistol is a lot like an ambulance. You don't often need one...but when you do, you need it badly and you need it like right now.

We carry for that rare one in a million chance that we'll actually have a brief need of a pistol or revolver. We wear seatbelts, not because we expect to be involved in an accident...but because the chances are that we might. If we fully expect to be in a crash or if we fully expect to have to shoot for blood on a given day...the wiser amongst us will opt to stay home in most instances.

The main advantage of the pistol lies in its portability. Unlike a rifle or shotgun, you don't have to lug it around and you don't have to go get it if the flag flies. It's right there on your belt everywhere you go...or would be if you had put it there before you left.

 

[Tried'nTrue]

You can also look at this, those several months you didn't carry the fact is you also didn't need a firearm. Though you carry for a precaution seldom is it ever needed in most people lives.

That is very true. In all likelyhood, most everyone who carries will not need their firearm for a life-or-death, self defense situation. The fact is, though, that there are no guarantees in life. As the saying goes, "It's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and be without".

Reasonably armed self defense has been a need for people throughout history and today is no exception.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

During the Viet Nam war, we had a military radio station, AF-VN (you may have seen the movie, "Good Morning, Viet Nam!) Aside from music, news and a few talk shows, there were "commercials" of a military nature ("Don't forget to take your chloroquine-primaquine pill.")

Some of the best, most creative "commercials" were for the in-country Rest and Recreation Center at Vung Tau. They told the troops what was there, how to apply, how to get there, what to bring, and so on. And they always ended with the same three words -- "Bring your weapon."

Good advice. I've followed it ever since.