Changing the Guard.

[MutinousDoug]

I agree with Dr Rob's statement that Colo School of Trades has a great reputation. In fact the guy that built my High Power gun is an alumnus.
My point, which the good Dr made more succinctly than I was able to, is that CSoT is a great place to start a gunsmithing career and an important credential but insufficient in and of itself. HTH
Doug

 

[MistWolf]

Nushif said- The sad part is that well, there are folks out there like one of the above posters who believe the height of the proverbial pants on one's derriere makes a professional.

The sad part is the majority of the folks who wear their pants below their butts are involved in criminal activity. Dressing that way will tend to attract that kind of customer base. Yo, homey! Can you gold plate my Hi-Point Niney?" Having that kind of customer base will drive away the legit guys. Unfair? Welcome to real world.

As for my personal opinion, I think a 30 caliber battle rifle equipped with a 20 round magazine and a self loading 45 caliber handgun are the perfect fashion statements. Unfortunately, my employer (customer) and those who hire our services (customer) feel they are very inappropriate for work. They also require that I wear personal protection- which are total fashion disasters- while on the job. However, to collect a regular paycheck, I abide by what the customer wants.

Easy

 

[MikeNice]

I mostly use a "Hey." or a "What's up?"
Sometimes I offer up a "How you doin'?"

It all depends on how you deliver these lines. There is a LGS I refuse to go to. They have two guys that use those greetings. Every time they say it like they're half dead or going through the motions.

I don't want you to do jumping jacks or back flips when you greet me. I just don't want to feel like an anoyance.

Being enthusiastic and polite will get you pretty far.

 

[DasFriek]

Have you tried wearing your pants around your waist where they belong?
As a gun shop owner most will carry a concealed weapon, With you pants half down reaching for your ankles will surely slow your draw down.
Do they even make AR15 print boxers?

Ok im out of jokes, But seriously i think once you start investing money and i mean lots of money into your business i think you will wake up and make ANY change necessary to make it work and profitable.

I rarely call anyone sir or miss or anything like that, I prefer "Hi, How are you?"

 

[Nushif]

Alright, two things that need to be addressed here are the word proverbial and a bit of clarification is needed.

Usage of this word means that the user, in this case, myself is indeed *not* stereotyping, but rather pointing out a stereotype. Thus this whole <expletive>-storm that's taken off is rather unfounded. From personal experience I am quite aware that the "whole gun community" (if such a thing exists)is not uniform in their opinions. I am asking for a consensus here.

Secondly, as to well, in this case my mode of dress when I say I don't wear my pants around my bellybutton I mean just that. I rest them on my hip bones to be exact, not at the "natural waist" I think it is called, where business standard puts it. This means actually I draw slightly faster than at my natural waist because the gun hangs lower, I find.

Listen guys... All I am saying here is that we do not get taken seriously at all when we walk into a gunstore that hasn't heard about us, we get regularly ignored or treated like dirt at gunshows, even*after* we buy a gun of theirs and one relatively old guy even did a stolen gun check (that of course came back clean) after I told him I just grew tired of my Glock 26.

My wife has the unfortnate circumstance of being similar myself and being female on top of this.

From what I am getting right now I really shouldn't bother because:

a) Until I've gained at least twelve championships and worked on five million guns nobody would entrust a new smith with a gun and
b) Unless I look old enough to be my own dad, I don't stand a chance.

Now, I know this isn't necessarily the case, but from what I gather these two factors are a very important thing in this diaspora we call "gun community."

 

[Mags]

Nushif, I am certain from your actions on this board it seems like you are a stand up guy so please don't take these comments as personal attacks but generalizations.

I often notice people who are "different" love to shove it down your face how different they are. Maybe covering up tattoos while conducting business isn't a bad idea. being a young man myself I find it hard sometimes to conduct business with the old guys at the gun shop/show.

I just started tucking my shirts in this year as in my mind a professional normally tucks their shirt in. I invested in tuckable ccw holsters and a nice ccw belt for shirt tucking. I figured we all need to grow up sometime and big whoop if I have to tuck my shirt to not look like a slob while I represent the RKBA community at an event or gun show.

Again no offense and I don't personally know you but from your posts in this thread it seems you are not all that serious about acting like a big boy and be taken seriously.

I can't believe I need to do this but here is an example of my idea dress for RKBA events. ( the drop leg is just for comps)



I actually think I would look more professional with some solid color bdu pants, but oh well.

 

[kaferhaus]

Listen guys... All I am saying here is that we do not get taken seriously at all when we walk into a gunstore that hasn't heard about us, we get regularly ignored or treated like dirt at gunshows, even*after* we buy a gun of theirs and one relatively old guy even did a stolen gun check (that of course came back clean) after I told him I just grew tired of my Glock 26.

Ok, you look "out of place" with your appearance, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder and seem to have authority issues... Add to that you're young.

No matter who you really are, people are people... and until you prove otherwise, many folks are going to be of the opinion that "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and acts like a duck..... it's a duck"

That is a obstacle that you and she placed in your own paths. Not one someone else has put before you. Only you can overcome that and I think a major adjustment in attitude would probably be required.

The old adage "kill them with kindness" works.... usually takes a little while but it does work. you should expect what happened at the gun show.... and suck it up with a smile and a "thank you very much" instead of a sneer or sour comment. That will work on people over time and they'll then realize that you're a "okay guy".

If you continue to carry a chip around on your shoulder you and she both are going to end up some very miserable folks. I'd hate to see that happen to anyone.

How YOU deal with people is going to determine you and your girls future in life. NOT how they deal with you. You go out of your way to be polite, courteous and respectful to everyone you meet and those attitudes towards you will change little by little.

Once you decide to move, plan on staying there a long time. Otherwise you'll be "earning" acceptance all over again everywhere you move.

 

[MikeNice]

Nushif,

Be respectful, be enthusiastic, and get involved in the local gun community. That will take you a long way.

I usually choose my stores based on how enthusiastic, respectful, and curteous the people are. It is a huge bonus if they are smart enough to give good advice without being pedantic. If a person would do those things, and try not to flaunt their non-conformity, I would shop in their store.
(What I mena by not flaunting your non conformity is, don't let it define who you are. Some people wear it naturally and it becomes invisible. Others are obviously doing it to prove a point, or fit a style, and it becomes a distraction.)

Getting involved in the local gun scene and doing some competitions will help your busisness. It is a form of marketing. People will get to know your name, and hopefully respect your work. It helps build a clientel even if you aren't winning.

I would recomend you work at somebody else's shop first. It will help you understand the complexities of running your own business. It will also help you build a reputation that can mean more business down the road.

There is a lot more to it than throwing up a shingle and buying inventory. I would recommend taking at least a few classes about small business operations. You should also expect to turn in eighty or ninety hours a week minimum.

 

[Joe Demko]

Being properly capitalized and having a sound knowledge of running a business are going to have a lot more to do with your success, or lack of it, than body art. The world is full of former gun shop owners who found, to their sadness, that they couldn't make a go of it by running a catalog store...and that was true even before there was an internet. You have to have desirable stuff on the shelves and ready to sell on the spot.
Also, I have to tell you that your attitude is such here at THR that you'd have to have a really fantastic stock of guns and at some remarkable prices for me to consider buying anything from you. You seem to be more about making some kind of personal statement than about running a successful business.

 

[KBintheSLC]

...err

 

[smallbore]

Good luck.

 

[monet61]

Changing the guard

With all respect; I think this is a silly post.
"Poor me, I'm different, so the mean old public won't like me".
Geez Dude, know your business, treat people fairly.
Get over it.
Again, with all respect...

 

[Sam1911]

Three more points:

1) No one is coming to your shop to see your tattoos. Your tattoos aren't your product/service, the guns are. Don't ask for or allow your body art to be an issue at all -- 90% of your clientele is going to ignore it, or at least overlook it if you have a service and/or products that people want and you treat people as a business owner and salesman should. The other 10% were lost to you the moment you put the needle in your skin, so there's no point to worrying about them now.

2) You are entering a service industry -- even if most of your profits come from sales, brick-and-mortar stores run on service these days. If you don't feel like a humble servant of anyone and everyone who enters your door, doing whatever it takes to get them to give you their money -- you'd better learn to act like you do. Life in small business is TOUGH. After not much time at all trying to keep the lights on, you'll find that all the individualist, "I-gotta-be-me," [SINATRA]"I did it MYYYYYY way!"[/SINATRA] stuff is a vague memory, lost in a flurry of "Yes, sir," and "No, ma'am," and "I'm sorry, sir," and "I'll stay late to fix your problem," and "what else can I do to make you a happy customer?" -- and so very on, and so very forth.

3) In the face of a zillion competitors on-line, and probably a dozen in any region of the "real" world, the biggest product/service you're selling is YOU. Trust in your skills. Faith in your recommendations. Approval of your artistic eye as a 'smith. And appreciation of your sales manner. ANYTHING that makes YOU less saleable, needs to be minimized. Whether or not your body art makes you less saleable depends a bit on what & how far out of the local "mainstream" it may be, and a lot on how self-consciously you deal with it.

 

[Erik M]

I've seen biker/tattoo types running gun stores, ex-military/cop, southern family mom & pop operations and one that tries to emulate the big box stores (and by result has the worst employee knowledge base and service). In my area of the mid-south I've came across a lot of minorities and political beliefs but I can not say that a persons ancestry or voting habits ever influenced me spending money in their store. Discreet, intelligent, and friendly customer service is all that mattered.

 

[oldbear]

Simple, you want to be treated like a professional look and act like one. Pull your pants up, tuck in your shirt, take a shower daily, unless you have a beard shave daily. Same goes for your wife. Believe me the words sir and madam will work wonders for you.

 

[CoastieShep]

I'm only in my early thirties. I don't care how you look, or how you're dressed when I come into your store. But if I'm greeted with a "hey buddy or hey pal" and I don't know you, you just lost my business. The only people I'm doing business with that gets to call me anything but sir (or Mr. or anything else along those lines) is someone at least in their 70's. I'm not saying this because I have some sort of complex, but because I treat customers with the same respect.
So my opinion, if you want to do good business, raise your standards, get over your "i'm not really a sir kinda guy" and maybe even pull your pants up a little.

 

[InkEd]

Look. Here's the deal. I am HEAVILY tattoo (hence the name) and you're asking a dumb question. You already know how most people react to tattoos. The majority do not care for them. You knew (or should have known) that people would be judgemental about your appearance. Invest in some longsleeve shirts and pants, if you want to be successful in the mainstream. I wear suit to work everyday. If you want to be a professional then you must dress professionally.

Not to be a cynic but your business plans are vague and I think you need to gain somemore experience in the sales and business world. College is great (I was a marketing major) but if you think you're fully prepared to make it in the real world, your kidding yourself.

Take some gunsmith classes and try to work at a store for awhile. You need to learn the operations of a small business. I wish you good luck. Too many people with tattoos are afraid/can't make it in the professional business world. Usually, it's because they're too hard-headed about expressing themselves. If you got your tattoos for the right reasons (because YOU wanted them) then it should be a big deal to cover them up a work. You know they are there, you know who you are, it's just that simple.

Lastly, 14 months isn't that long a time to establish a business. Best wishes.

 

[InkEd]

There is nothing wrong with saying "buddy or friend" instead of "sir," it's more casual. It feels more "welcoming." Proper manners are important! Your vernacular are a little less. The tone of your voice and most of all the sincerity in your greeting is what matters most. A good first impression is crucial. Look decent and be courteous.

 

[Corporal K]

All right, I'm going to be the hard-case:

We'd most likely open a store in a mildy rural (read: near a small city) and highly blue aligned area, since red areas don't like our political views.
My question here is, as to whether we even stand a chance with the current "average" gun owner in attracting business?

I've lived in Colorado for a long time in conservative areas and liberal ones. You don't stand a chance.

Open a tattoo shop or a dispensary.

 

[danprkr]

Quality work will sell, but first you have to get them in the door, and to trust you with their firearms. I would suggest some marketing and salesmanship classes thrown in with the gunsmithing stuff. Heck, they may help your wife's shyness some. And sales IS a skill that CAN be learned. So don't knock it. Good luck either way.

 

[bikerdoc]

Do good work and give great, friendly, honest, customer service.

 

[hso]

how much does one have to behave like the proverbial white conservative male to actually be successful

Wow, I'm not sure exactly what that actually means. Around here the biggest gun shop owner has guys working for him with shaved heads, pierced eyebrows and stretched lobes as well as button down guys. I've been in shops with several middle aged guys working there that looked like they stepped out of a Norman Rockwell illustration and I've been in shops with folks that would be characterized as "button down", "cowboy", "biker", "hippy" and "alt". Just depends upon the community. Perhaps a college town in a moderately conservative state is a better fit so a broader more varied cross section of people are more familiar.

Being courteous to customers is a requirement for any retailer. No one who doesn't want to be bothered being courteous can succeed, but what form that courtesy takes varies from place to place. "Hello Sir", "How Y'uns Doin?", or just "Howdy", "Mornin/Afternoon" could be equally courteous depending upon the community.

How you look will matter a lot less than how you behave towards your customers, but you already know that your appearance is an issue generally. InkEd has given you some excellent advice about minimizing negative reactions to your appearance. You'll need to let people get to know you before they'll accept every aspect of your appearance.

Remember that each and every one of your customers is providing money they worked hard to earn and you should expect to work equally hard to earn it from them.

Graduates of gunsmithing schools will be told that graduation is just the beginning of their education. A few years working under a well recognized gunsmith doing an apprenticeship is expected. If they're good they'll get to be recognized locally. Opening your own shop means needing enough capital to survive the first 3 years with little coming in. It means having enough capital to purchase enough equipment and inventory. Under-capitalized businesses do not survive very well.

You should plan on working at a shop to learn the business. If possible, you should work into managing a shop before trying to open your own and you should make certain that you can secure the capital to make a realistic business plan work.

 

[jeepguy]

my first recomendation would be start small. maybe get a c&r license buy and sell at gun shows. much lower overhead you can work during the week to pay your bills and do the gunsmithing/selling on off hours. unless your lucky enough to get hired on by a existing gunsmith shop. buying & selling could be a fun hobby and bring in some extra cash. working on some c&r guns, guns you take in on trade, & maybe some good deals you find at the show on guns that are not working properly might gain you some good experience. i would also recommend talking to some gunsmiths who have been in business for a while, you could probably gleen alot of information from them.
now for the other stuff, i personally don't like it when i walk in a store for the first time and someone says hey budddy, or hey dude they are not my frind becuse they don't even know me. it is different when im in a store where they do know me, then it doesn't seem fake or shallow. if i think someone is not professional i might buy a new firearm from them or any new item, but i would not buy a used firearm or ask them to work on my firearms. if for the sake of their own business, they can't man up, dress up & act like a professional then why should i trust them to work on my firearms? you are not just selling a service your selling yourself. becuse your asking your costomers for their trust. best of luck to you and your wife.

 

[Hatterasguy]

First you have to separate running a business from your personal life. Since I'm in my mid 20's and own a real estate development company I might be able to offer some pointers to you.

1. Decide what kind of gun store you are going to be. IE geared towards hunting, milsurps, general, modern tactical, etc.

2. You are working dress and act like it. Tattoo's are a negative in the work place, sorry that's just the way it is. Cover them up, wear a collared shirt, wear jeans. Everyone in your store should be in "uniform" to a point. Simple polo/T shirts with your stores name and logo on it would work fine. Also piercings have to go as well as any crazy hair styles. Your their to make money and run a company, not make a statement. You need to look like and dress to the demographic your going to do business with. Ie I drive a Silverado and wear Carhartt shirts because the guys that work for me drive Silverado's and wear Carhartt's. Showing up in a Mercedes dressed in a Italian suite with gelled hair would be totally inappropriate. However when I was selling real estate such attire was standard fair.

3. Study your market, I'm not even sure how to do this for a firearms store. Maybe find an area with a shortage of stores.

4. Front a profitable niche and exploit the heck out of it.

5. Keep politics out of business unless it makes you money. Your customers don't care what you believe in, if you talk about it you might offend them and lose sales. Most gun store owners are very poor in this regard and tend to express far right wing views, assuming their clientele cares and agrees with them which is not always the case.

6. You are running a business, you are not their to put on a show and make a statement. Your statement is made by how you treat your clients and how much money you make.

 

[Japman]

Nushif said- The sad part is that well, there are folks out there like one of the above posters who believe the height of the proverbial pants on one's derriere makes a professional.

The sad part is the majority of the folks who wear their pants below their butts are involved in criminal activity. Dressing that way will tend to attract that kind of customer base. Yo, homey! Can you gold plate my Hi-Point Niney?" Having that kind of customer base will drive away the legit guys. Unfair? Welcome to real world.

Give me a break. Wearing your pants below our waist = " probably involved in criminal activity?" That is quite a stretch.