Charles Whitman / U of Texas shooter

[feedthehogs]

The history channel had a story on about Charles Whitman, the ex Marine who went nuts on Aug 1, 1966 and started shooting from the University of Texas Tower killing 14 people and wounding more.

The chief of police made a very profound statement after the shootings.

"With the condition of the world today, this could have happened anywhere".

He clearly recognized this as a social/mental issue and not a gun issue.

To bad they don’t have the same insight today.

 

[Dave R]

Amen. It has happened in other countries, too. Terribly sad.

 

[El Tejon]

I checked out the tower earlier this spring. Could not go up to the top, but I stood where most of the victims were hit. Fine shooting especially after the first shot.

The airport in Austin sells the tower as a postcard!!!

 

[Holly76201]

Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys {their name, not mine for them} had a most excellent song about Whitman.
I also remember a line from Full Metal Jacket. Lee Ermy is informing his recruits that "Charles Whitman and Lee Harvey Oswald, possibly two of the most infamous and accurate snipers of this century, were Marine Riflemen"
Just my ramblings for today,
Holly

 

[critter]

DO NOT forget the civilians who, that day, went home, retreived their hunting rifles and returned EFFECTIVE fire and thereby saved MANY lives. The police did not have rifles that were effective at that range. Nobody seems to talk much about the civilian heroes that day.

 

[Chupacabra]

Caught the show during my lunch break today. It was a great documentary up until the part where the narration tried to make it a gun issue instead of a crazy guy issue. I'm glad the Police Chief back then didn't see it that way.

 

[Madmardig0n]

I met Ray Martinez, one of the men who went up in to the tower and shot Whitman. He's a really cool guy.

I hope they show the program again, because I didn't get to see it.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

The ROTC Commander on the University of Texas campus offered the ROTC battalion and their field piece as a means to blow Whitman from the tower.

The top of the tower is still intact because cooler heads prevailed, but it was discussed at the time. The ROTC is no longer at UT from my information.

No wonder I root for Texas A&M.

Gig'em.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Guy L Johnson]

He Was Well Armed

Here is the inital inventory report of what he had in his car and person

 

[jar]

There were many, many heros that day. In particular, all the unnamed folk who ran out under fire and helped the wounded to safety.

Those that weren't alive during the period from 1950 -1980 can not imagine just how crazy things really were.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

El Tejon said, "Fine shooting especially after the first shot.


I assume that statement was in regard to the fact that people on the ground radically changed their normal behavior and fled in all directions. Actually, many people were shot before it was determined as to what was going on and where the shots originated. Additionally, Whitman fired in several directions. People off in the distance and on opposite sides of the tower were still surprised well into the rampage. Distance from the tower and the tower and administrative building served to block information flow to side as to what was happening on the other side.

I am not sure how effective the hunter's (with hunting rifles) shooting was on the situation. Given the wall around the tower's catwalk and the angle of the shots being made from the ground, Whitman presented only a minimal target to hit and he apparently knew it. The folks on the ground would shoot toward the top of the tower whenever they saw his rifle over the catwalk wall. They were not so much able to shoot at him, just toward his immediate vicinity. Whitman managed to coninue hitting victims on the ground long after the hunters tried to do their part to stop him.

Not only did the wall help protect him, but when fire was directed toward him, he switched to shooting out through the rain gutter channels in the wall. This made him virtually impossible to hit as the gutters were only a few inches in size.

To be able to hit Whitman, the shooters one the ground would have needed to exceed Whitman's abilities, which they did not. Whitman hit folks who were only slightly exposed (between 2 pillars six inches apart, as head peeked around corners, and even those way off in the distance [furthest hit was 500 yards and that was after his location was under heavy fire.

For more information, see http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/whitman/

 

[BluesBear]

For those who weren't around at that time, the shock of "The Tower" was equaled only by the murder of John Kennedy and the Attack of 9-11.

I recall the general feeling afterwards was something like "How could a MAN do such a thing?"

Nowadays it would be blamed on the gun.



Society, how the mighty have fallen.

 

[Travis McGee]

I always read that the Texas Tower incident was the trigger for the creation of the modern SWAT team. I think the LAPD SWAT was first. They realised that this type of situation would requre more than just beat cops with riot shotguns.

 

[LeonCarr]

To this day, if you look at the tower, just under the observation deck, with a pair of binoculars, you can see the pock marks from the bullets that were being shot at Whitman.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I think the LAPD SWAT was first.

The Whitman shooting occured in 1966. In LA, the department began specialized training of officers in the late 60s. They remained patrol officers and used only when needed. SWAT officially began in 1971 when LEOs were assigned to SWAT as their primary duty.

There was a 1975 movie about the incident called The Deadly Tower starring Kurt Russell which, in true Hollywood fashion, had to get an anti-gun message inserted. In one scene, local civilians are shooting at Whitman with their hunting rifles. The cops on the scene didn't have long guns in their patrol cars that could reach the top of the tower (the same thing bit LAPD decades later in the North Hollywood Shootout). This did occur and saved lives by keeping Whitman's head down or forcing him to the other side of the tower so the wounded could be rescued. One of the cops states the RKBA is a good thing, otherwise, these civilians wouldn't have guns and be able to help out. A news reporter responds with the comment it is also the reason Whitman had guns in the first place.

 

[Futo Inu]

I wonder if Whitman killed anyone AFTER the contemplation of the field artillery piece from the ROTC, and how long it would have taken to deploy and fire it. Because it's not a bad idea at all - the tower can be rebuilt. On second thought, there's the danger of a miss, in which case, what goes up must come down - not good.

 

[Joe Demko]

Blowing the top of the tower off would also have raised the concern about where the bits of the tower would land.
I remember reading somewhere about an armed whackjob in New Orleans going on a similar rampage that was ended by having an armed military chopper hose him down with M-60 fire. Wonder how they got around the whole posse commitatus thing for that?

 

[cordex]

I remember reading somewhere about an armed whackjob in New Orleans going on a similar rampage that was ended by having an armed military chopper hose him down with M-60 fire. Wonder how they got around the whole posse commitatus thing for that?

Just say he was carrying or manufacturing drugs. Then they'll give 'em just about anything short of a tactical nuclear strike without having to worry about posse commitatus.

 

[rock jock]

Wasn't our own Art of THR at the scene when it happened?

 

[El Tejon]

00, yes, hitting people between concrete posts at hundreds of yards is very fine shooting indeed. As you say, he continued to connect even after people realized what was transpiring.

Hitting at those ranges and his clever use of the tower's design is fine shooting to me. Of course, I am the worst shot on the Internet and have never been a countersniper assigned to SEEL Team 37.5 so my comments may be without merit.

 

[Balog]

Good Lord. I've heard the incident referred to, but I had no idea it was so bad. That was one sick puppy. I suppose it's good he didn't have an M1-C or D Garand.

 

[sw442642]

There is a good book on the incident:

A Sniper in the Tower by Lavergne

About the civilian response. Some of the shots did come close. It was also reported that after the civilians responded, Whitman didn't shoot anyone else.

The most chilling shooting in the book was an idiot who told his girlfriend to come out and look. He said they were too far away to get hit. He peeked through a concrete fence and Whitman shot him in the mouth.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aw, yeah, I wuz there.

About the longest hit I know of was an Austin City Electric Department guy, who was standing out in a street, gawking. Roughly 420 yards; right shirt pocket. I ran and got an ambulance, but he was DOA.

Civilian rifle fire was alleged by Col. Garrison, head of DPS, to have been the reason for Whitman's "retreat" to the NW corner of the observation deck. This left the only access door (on the south face) available to the "men of the moment" who got Whitman.

I've posted at length at TFL and I think maybe here but earlier in the year. Do a search on my name + Charles Whitman...

Art

 

[Travis McGee]

Art Eatman: WOW! I'll bet that's not a day you easily forget!

 

[synoptic]

quote:
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I remember reading somewhere about an armed whackjob in New Orleans going on a similar rampage that was ended by having an armed military chopper hose him down with M-60 fire. Wonder how they got around the whole posse commitatus thing for that?
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Just say he was carrying or manufacturing drugs. Then they'll give 'em just about anything short of a tactical nuclear strike without having to worry about posse commitatus.

I believe National Guard can still operate within the U.S.

Secondly, after the Marines shot that 12 year old on the Texas border, counter drug operations were not allowed to be conducted by the military inside the U.S. prior to that most of the operations were observation and such, when someone needed arresting they called in the border patrol. They carried live ammo because the drugrunners did and only used it when threatened. I believe helicopter observation missions are still allowed.