The Ballad of Charles Whitman

[Al Thompson]

Six year old thread. I'll let Art decide if he wants to re-open it.

 

[Art Eatman]

My recollection is that is was either an ROTC guy or maybe NG who went home, got dressed in fatigues and brought his M1 Carbine to the Tower. In the lobby, the first arriving policeman confiscated it.

Save the URL or cut and paste, whatever. Here's what to take away from this episode:

Whitman would have passed any background check I've ever seen proposed. Ex-Marine, married, average student, no known history of violence and a Boy Scout troop leader.

Two murders with a knife. Three murdered, two wounded with his hacksawed single-shot shotgun-"pistol".

Few hit with the M1 Carbine "assault" weapon. A large number of hits at fairly long distances with what was then considered mostly as a bolt-action "varmint rifle" with a low-power scope.

And all that is for discussion in the Legal forum.

 

[Art Eatman]

Re-opened for some questions. Remain germane.

 

[starviego]

Art,

My recollection is that is was either an ROTC guy or maybe NG who went home, got dressed in fatigues and brought his M1 Carbine to the Tower. In the lobby, the first arriving policeman confiscated it.

What is your source for that? Do you have the names of the either of the two individuals?

--------------

LBJ's daughters were in school, so the Secret Service guys had gotten on the horn.

Do you know which of his two girls was a student there? Was she on campus at the time? How many SSAs responded? Do you have any of their names? I filed a FOIA request with the Secret Service about their response but they claimed they had no documents pertaining to the incident.



/

 

[carlson1]

Art my dad's family is from Austin. I have heard them tell this story over and over. I have also read the history.

Thank you for posting this. Thank you also for your help. You never know how much something that seems little is.

 

[Art Eatman]

starviego, newspaper for the ROTC/NG kid.

I vaguely recall that both of LBJ's daughters were there. One, as I (again) vaguely recall, was in her room in some residence up around 26th St.

Gossip had it that he was ready to scramble Bergstrom AFB and get the Guard from Camp Mabry. Quien sabe?

I don't recall any names. What little I recall of names have pretty much faded from memory.

 

[AlexanderA]

Lynda Bird was a student there. I even had a class with her. It was a political science class called "The American Presidency" [!] She used to take notes on White House stationery. The Secret Service guys would file in and sit in the back of the room. I met her mother, Lady Bird, at a reception for Phi Beta Kappa selectees.

Luci Baines didn't go to the University of Texas, AFAIK. She had the reputation of being the bimbo in the family. Married young.

 

[starviego]

It was the impression among many of the first responders that there was more than just one sniper up in that tower. I wonder if another suspect didn't get away after the first twenty minutes, when most of the victims were shot--on all sides of the tower.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-07-29/news/mn-21186_1_charles-whitman/2
He was firing so fast and so often, with so many puffs of smoke coming from different angles on the observation deck, that many on the ground believed there were two or three snipers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1B5mfzCBA
22:35 mark
PO Houston McCoy: I looked up there on the north end there's the one shot, then right in the middle there's a shot, then on the south end there was a shot.
Voice Over: .... (The sniper was)shooting from east, west, north, and south. He(the gunman) gave the impression that there was more than one sniper.
McCoy: I thought there was at least three of them right there, you know.

Article from Austin-American Statesman, Aug 2, 1966
It was so deadly and efficient police officers were not convinced until the moment of Whitman's death there were not two snipers firing at human targets below.

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1728
At first it wasn't obvious to police, bystanders or the media if there was more than one person shooting from the Tower.

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-story.html
Houston McCoy: "On remaining at the northeast corner, I had drawn and cocked my .38 revolver, being leery of another possible sniper."

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-Waco-Tribune-Herald.html
Waco Tribune-Herald April 23, 1967
From the volume of fire, police believed several people were up there....

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-Chief.html
Austin Police Chief Bob Miles:
"The first report didn't really strike a note; it just said something about invetigating someone shooting from the tower. But the next report, when I started paying attention, said there appeared to be two of them shooting from the tower."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A8hgoACMpM
PO Jerry Day: 2:12 mark
"There were shots coming from everywhere. ... It looked like a gang of people up there."


Any thoughts from anybody who has lingering doubts?



/

 

[r1derbike]

It was the impression among many of the first responders that there was more than just one sniper up in that tower. I wonder if another suspect didn't get away after the first twenty minutes, when most of the victims were shot--on all sides of the tower.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-07-29/news/mn-21186_1_charles-whitman/2
He was firing so fast and so often, with so many puffs of smoke coming from different angles on the observation deck, that many on the ground believed there were two or three snipers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1B5mfzCBA
22:35 mark
PO Houston McCoy: I looked up there on the north end there's the one shot, then right in the middle there's a shot, then on the south end there was a shot.
Voice Over: .... (The sniper was)shooting from east, west, north, and south. He(the gunman) gave the impression that there was more than one sniper.
McCoy: I thought there was at least three of them right there, you know.

Article from Austin-American Statesman, Aug 2, 1966
It was so deadly and efficient police officers were not convinced until the moment of Whitman's death there were not two snipers firing at human targets below.

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1728
At first it wasn't obvious to police, bystanders or the media if there was more than one person shooting from the Tower.

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-story.html
Houston McCoy: "On remaining at the northeast corner, I had drawn and cocked my .38 revolver, being leery of another possible sniper."

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-Waco-Tribune-Herald.html
Waco Tribune-Herald April 23, 1967
From the volume of fire, police believed several people were up there....

http://www.westtexasscoutinghistory.net/McCoy-Chief.html
Austin Police Chief Bob Miles:
"The first report didn't really strike a note; it just said something about invetigating someone shooting from the tower. But the next report, when I started paying attention, said there appeared to be two of them shooting from the tower."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A8hgoACMpM
PO Jerry Day: 2:12 mark
"There were shots coming from everywhere. ... It looked like a gang of people up there."


Any thoughts from anybody who has lingering doubts?



/

I was also hatched in '55, witnessed footage from every side of the tower, and there appeared to be only one shooter. That was a long time ago for my memory to retain anything, so I may be mistaken.

Art, way to go with your yelling and warnings. You saved some lives that day.

 

[starviego]

"Lynda Bird was a student there. I even had a class with her. It was a political science class called "The American Presidency" [!] She used to take notes on White House stationery. The Secret Service guys would file in and sit in the back of the room. I met her mother, Lady Bird, at a reception for Phi Beta Kappa selectees."

AlexanderA,

Do you remember when this was? I am unable to find out WHEN Lynda Bird graduated. One source says 1966, which presumably means she would no longer have been a student when the fall semester rolled around. Or maybe the classes on Aug 1 were for summer courses.

 

[AlexanderA]

I went back and checked my records. "The American Presidency" class that I referred to was in the fall semester of 1965. Lynda Bird did in fact graduate (with honors) in the spring of 1966. (I found her name in the commencement program.) So she wouldn't have been on campus in August. The classes in session were for summer courses. I got a jump start in law school by beginning in the summer, right after I got my BA.

 

[starviego]

Yet most accounts say the Secret Service was there to assist:

http://www.tvwiki.tv/wiki/Charles_Whitman
"Local Secret Service agents from the Johnson administration, sheriff's deputies, and Department of Public Safety officers arrived on campus to help the Austin police... "

If they weren't Lynda Bird's guards, why would they have been there? Was LBJ in town?

 

[Trent]

This thread pre-dates my time here on THR, so this is the first I've read of it. Kind of shocking to know someone on here was actually at the event! Thank you for sharing your experiences Art (even though, now, it's been 6 years ago since the thread was opened).

Also, thanks for re-opening the thread for questions; I never would have known of it had it not suddenly popped up on the first page.

Art - I have a relevant question (I think, anyway).

Did being involved in that event and witnessing what you did that day, shape your views of firearms ownership or self-defense in any way?

 

[AlexanderA]

If they weren't Lynda Bird's guards, why would they have been there? Was LBJ in town?

I think the detail that guarded the LBJ Ranch was based in Austin.