Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR)

[Magwa45]

Charter Arms is coming out with a revolver chambered for semi-automatic pistols in April. The first will be in 40 S&W, then .45 ACP, and later 9 mm. It has a special system so no half moon clips are needed. Generally, I am a Smith & Wesson guy, with Models 66 and 25 bought new back in the '80s. But I am thinking about a Charter Arms revolver, have heard a few good things about them. S&W prices seem to have skyrocketed and a more reasonable price in these days is appreciated. Can any Charter Arms owners comment about quality or satisfaction issues? Thanks for your consideration!

 

[Monster Zero]

I'm interested in it too. One thing though... They're all going to have short (2.2" ?) barrels... What's that gonna do to the expansion of 9mm, .40 and .45 ammo that's designed for terminal performance out of 4" barrels? Makes me think the .45 might be the best of the three, loaded with hardcast SWC bullets.

It'll be interesting to hear what results folks are getting. I've always been kinda interested in the bulldog .44spc too, with the 2.5" barrel. That might turn out to be the way to go anyway.

Now to see how this deal with ammo prices goes.

 

[Animal Mother]

Those look really neat, I'd like the idea of having a .45 ACP or 9mm/.380 revolver. HP expansion shouldn't be a problem with the right ammo selection. IIRC, the short barrel version of Speer Gold Dots are designed to reach full expansion even out of a 2.5 inch barrel using some proprietary type of powder/bullet combo.

I'm interested.

 

[tekarra]

I heard the introduction was delayed because of possible patent problems. Has that been resolved? I sure would like to see the 9mm and the .45.

 

[Gunner4h1r3]

I currently own a bulldog with the 2.5" barrel. Good gun in my opinion. I keep mine loaded with Gold Dots or Silvertips. Haven't much to complain about the gun but the ammo isn't the cheapest things these days, that and a rather limited choice at the gun shop (i.e. hollow points or the "cowboy" lead flat points). Most online stores have ammo on backorder, but if you are a handloader, then there are some good recipes online.

Anyways, back to the CARR. I heard quite a bit about it and am pretty excited myself. I would probably go with the .45 option seeing as I have 3 other .45's in my safe. I look forward to this one and will have my order in when they come out, whenever that may be.

 

[panzer426]

Didn't find (or search for) this until this morning and realize you guys are already talking about them. Yesterday I emailed Charter Arms though, and asked if they had any plans to ever produce a 45acp revolver.

This morning I had a reply from Charter customer service rep. PJ who attached this information.

Charter Arms’ New Revolutionary Rimless Revolver

Charter Arms, Dayton, OH, December, 2008 – Charter Arms announces the Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) a revolutionary new rimless revolver for popular semi-auto cartridges.


Problem: The major drawback to rimless semi-auto cartridges in revolvers is they require specially made revolvers. These low production, somewhat scarce and highly specialized revolvers are limited to sometimes fragile and expensive moon/half moon ammunition clips. Generally, only revolver aficionados and collectors bother with (.45 ACP and 9mm Parabellum) rimless revolvers. While they may sometimes be fired without the specialized moon clips, generally the ejector rod will not eject the free floating fired cases (got a pencil?).

Solution: Charter Arms has come up with an affordable revolver that chambers rimless semi-auto rounds in the same manner as a standard rimmed-cartridge revolver.

Available Calibers: Charter Arms will first offer the .40 S&W chambering (see availability below) followed by the .45 ACP and 9x19 mm Parabellum (the 9mm Parabellum revolver will also chamber factory .380 ACP). All three of Charter Arms’ Rimless Revolvers (9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP) are rated for higher velocity +P loadings.

The advantage is now the average gun owner can own an affordable, trouble free revolver chambered in these popular semi-auto rounds without the need for specialized ammunition clips and a specialized gun.

Back up and self defense: For law enforcement work the always ready-to-fire, fiddle-factor-free revolver is the back up to have; especially if is the same caliber as the officer’s carry gun. As a primary self defense carry gun, these three calibers mean reliable protection in popular semi-auto self defense-calibers.

If more power is needed, step up to +P ammo. The advantage with Charter Arms Rimless Revolvers is they will fire any mix of cartridges while maintaining 100% reliability. For plinking with .45 ACP or 9mm surplus and discounted military type ammo, the affordable Charter Arms Rimless Revolver will prove to be very economical and it’s also a .380 ACP revolver. Now that is fun!

The secret is the patent pending Charter Arms Rimless Revolver Round System. Basically, when a round is loaded into the chamber a specialized spring engages the cartridge’s ejector groove. When the cylinder is opened and the ejector rod operated, it extracts and ejects the fired cases.

Models: Initially snub barrels (2” 9mm and 2.2” .40 S&W and .45 ACP) as these revolvers are designed for self defense and back up. The 9mm is built on Charter Arms’ compact and lightweight undercover platform featuring an aluminum frame and weighing only 12 ounces. The .40 S&W and .45 ACP built on the popular and robust Bulldog frame due to the larger diameter of these cartridges while maintaining a compact profile.

Availability: The anticipated production start date for the .40 S&W is the end of April 2009, about 90-120 days later the .45 ACP and 90-120 days after the .45 ACP will come the 9mm. Please see above models for more information.

Warranty: Charter Arms has an industry exclusive lifetime warranty on its revolvers.

MSRP Prices: 9mm $399.00, .40 S&W $449.00, .45 ACP $449.00

 

[SomeDude]

I eagerly await......

 

[Ron James]

I have found a lifetime warranty is a nice thing, but only if the company is still alive. They failed once, if they fail again would the lifetime warranty still be in effect. Just curious.

 

[cane]

The secret is the patent pending Charter Arms Rimless Revolver Round System. Basically, when a round is loaded into the chamber a specialized spring engages the cartridge’s ejector groove. When the cylinder is opened and the ejector rod operated, it extracts and ejects the fired cases.


Sure sounds like the one Ruger developed for the "six" series 20 yrs ago.

 

[MCgunner]

So, no moon clips, what are ya supposed to do for speedloaders. I'm not impressed. I had a Charter and I consider Rossi a better made gun, Taurus, Smith, and Ruger are way better. JMHO, though.

If I wanted a small .40, I'd get a Kahr. At least it won't take a week to reload if you need to. The only way an auto pistol caliber revolver makes any sense at all to me is with moon clips. Still, I'd rather just get the auto pistol. .38 and .357 are hard to beat in a defensive revolver IMHO. If you want a bigger diameter bullet, there's .44 special and .45 Colt.

I did have a Smith 1917 for a while. I found clipping ammo in the moon clips at least easier than loading my Ruger Old Army. I mean, I like BP, so moon clips ain't that big a pain to me.

 

[Dimis]

im all for it i may never buy one but at least they are trying to do something different its kind of funny that any time someone does something different like this people all say "it wont work" or "why the heck they doing that"
its just like the Taurus Judge and now the Ruger LCR


Remember kids its only inovative if Colt or S&W do it any one else and its blasphamy

 

[Eightball]

These designs never seem to do well commercially, from what I've seen.

If they're doing a 9mm version.....why not go full bore and rip off the Medusa 9xanything revolver? IIRC, that thing could take .357, .38, 9mm, 9x18, and 9x17. If Charter Arms does that, and it turns out to be durable and reliable, in a full-size revolver, that could well make the ultimate SHTF gun for it's ammo selection options.

 

[rdrancher]

Remember kids its only inovative if Colt or S&W do it any one else and its blasphamy

Not to me. I'd just be happy if they would make a quality revolver. Great ideas aren't that great if quality is lacking - even if they are made in the USA. That's been Charter's problem for a very long time. Sure, they fill a price point, but my gosh - their guns are just plain cheesy.

rd

 

[Phydeaux642]

I hope Charter Arms gets this right. I'd like to have a snubbie in 9mm. Heck, I may even consider one in .45 if they work.

 

[MCgunner]

and it turns out to be durable and reliable, in a full-size revolver, that could well make the ultimate SHTF gun for it's ammo selection options.

Well, your average mall ninja worried about SHTF stuff, seems to me, wants autos, full autos are preferable to him. Me, I still don't get how your're going to reload that thing in six weeks with no speed loader, no speed strip, no moon clips, just loose ammo in a pocket. Even Jerry Miculek would be slow.

Rimless rounds are for auto pistols. I'll keep my .38s and .357s thanks.

 

[Dimis]

i dont think the idea is so much speed reloads as a last ditch effort as a backup piece and at that point its hit your target with the 5 you got left or just lay down and die
im all for the idea of the firearm as i stated before but then again im all for anyone trying something new and different in the hopes that it takes off and we see more manufacturers relying on inovation rather than just legecy
but realisticly think about those of use that ccw (depending on state laws of course) most of us carry an auto loader with one full magazine in the firearm with at least one full magazine on your person somewhere now add in the CARR your looking at anywhere between 19-25 rounds in .45ACP and the numbers just grow for .40 and 9mm if SHTF that bad and you miss 24 times just use the last to make it a bit more humane on yourself
but...
there are those out there that truely believe the only way to feel safe is overkill and they carry a mag in the firearm two or more in a belt holster and a backup piece like these
its literaly a last stand piece

 

[hardluk1]

Someone wants a speed loader?? Thats easy pull a 380 8 or 9 oz semi auto backup for the primary ccw. If you shot 5 times and don't bring the problem to a stop I will be look'n for a way out not standing around to shot 18 more out of a high cap auto. I have not in 25 years of carry pulled a gun yet and never carryed a extra mag or speed loader I have carried a back up gun.Just keep it simple. If you don't have and interest in a 5 shot remless revolver Buy or carry something else. I am waiting for a 9mm of theres.

 

[jjohnson]

CA Owner Here

I've owned a CA Bulldog in .44 Special for 25 years or so. I bought it secondhand.

While it's NOT as pretty or well finished as a S&W (let alone a Colt), I've found the CA of high quality construction. It's durable, dependable, and well designed.

I know that CA's have problems over the years. It seems quality and finish have gone up and down on the rollercoaster as they've changed ownership. I would look closely at buying another - not with prejudice, just with a sharp eye since I don't know whether they're "up or down" these days.

I like revolvers chambered for auto cartridges. I have a couple M1917 (Colt and S&W) as well as a couple of Ruger Blackhawk Convertibles. They're handy - some of the auto cartridges work pretty well with good SWCs in a revolver. Sometimes I load auto pistol cartridges that aren't compatible with the intended auto - usually ornery feeding problems - so I relegate them for revolver use instead of letting a batch of iffy auto reloads bother me.

I'd be interested in a CA for rimless auto cartridges. I'd rather have something with maybe a 4" barrel and adjustable sights, as a "kit gun" sort of thing, but if this works, maybe that will be available later.

 

[kd7nqb]

I have been looking for a small revolver and the CARR has been interesting to me, the tough question for me is do I go with the .40 so I can share ammo with my regular carry gun or do I go with 9mm so I can afford to shoot it. Either way it seems cool but I am going to wait a bit, the last few guns I have wanted as soon as they came out had some issues so I am going to sit back on this one.

 

[Monster Zero]

10mm?

When do they show the 10mm with the 5-inch barrel and adjustable sights?

 

[MCgunner]

Hell, I carry reloads for a back up. Gun won't fire if it has no ammo and, yeah, I've carried for 35 years, mostly illegally until the law was changed in 96, and I've only had to draw the gun once and didn't have to fire it, but ya know, when I was in the boy scouts, we had a motto.

 

[sthomper]

Sure sounds like the one Ruger developed for the "six" series 20 yrs ago. true??


i was wondering this. has any similar feature occurred in revolvers before??

is the charter arms device better?? is charter arms an existing company??

 

[sthomper]

I've carried for 35 years, mostly illegally......

illeagal accoridng to what??

 

[sthomper]

i dont think the idea is so much speed reloads as a last ditch effort as a backup piece and at that point its hit your target with the 5 you got left or just lay down and die.........

i guess if a primary weapon malfunctioned or was taken but you still had a extra magazine
the additional ammo going to a same-cartridge back up gun could be a lifesaver....unlikely occurrence but it couldnt hurt.

 

[451 Detonics]

mmmm....my steel full moon clips are fragile? Never knew that. This has been done before by S&W in 9mm, Taurus, and others. The 40 and 45 chamberings would be new but I fail to see the advantage of not using those "expensive" moon clips (I paid 50 cents apiece for the last lot of 100 I bought). The moon clips and their speed for reloads is the entire reason to use a rimless cartridge in a revolver.