Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR)

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is the carr a real weapon?

with a back up gun what distance are they likely to be fired??? do the charter arms (real company?) revolvers fail??? are they that inaccurate or have that bad of a trigger that as back up gun they would be a bad choice??

can a speedloader be developed for rimless 45acp?? is there one already??
 
Holy thread necromancy batman!

sthomper, To answer your questions to the best of my abilty;

Back up guns, (BUG's) are meant to be fired in self defence ranges of inside 20 feet or so, and the point of a BUG is if you are a cop and your primary weapon fails. Your average person would probably just carry one weapon. Accuracy is going to be dependent on the particular gun, the ammunition used and the shooter although many can be proficient at a decent range with a snubnose.

Charter arms is a real, currently existing company and the current generation of the company having existed for the last decade or so. Reputation varies with reports of thousands of rounds fired without fault, to cant fire a cylinder without locking up. triggers can be improved, most easily by dry firing, allowing the internals to smooth each other out.

The CARR, is an actual weapon, it has been in development the last few years but if memory serves, it made its debut at this years SHOT show. I do not remember availability dates or a price point though.

.45 ACP speedloaders have been around since at least WWII for the S&W M1917 revolver. they are called "moonclips" and are a thin piece of metal which holds rounds together.
 
thanks

i know about moon clips. i was asking about a speedloader similar to what exists for rimmed cartridges now. so when the cases are ejected a moon clip wouldnt be needed and the cases wouldnt have to be individually poked out. (thats what i read anyway with rimless 45acp. the ejection was slow without a moonclip...i guess this gun takes care of that.)
 
do you mean like a HKS speedloader, or a speed strip? I doubt a speed strip would work but you might be able to get a HKS 547 to work for the 9mm CARR. might being the operative word there.
 
if charter has really created or redone a cylinder that can eject rimless cartridges i was wondering if a 'speedloader' sort of like an hks exists and works on a similar principal.

someone mentioned a ruger revolver that did this years ago...i dont know if its true or not...if true, was there a speedloader then that worked and is such still around somewhere???

or if existing speedloaders can reliably or crudely or accomodate rimless cartridges now to work on the carr revolver.
 
01-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Brian Dover Brian Dover is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,681
I was recently reminded on another forum that HKS has made speedloaders for the K-frame S&W revolver of long ago (Model 547, designation of both the firearm and speedloader. So, rimless cartridges in speedloaders is a do-able concept.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com

i dont know if the above info from another board is true or not. but they seem to be saying that a speedloader from hks was a done-able product that is not easy to find now.

if this was done before it shouldnt be a mystery to anyone knowledable about guns that the moonclips arent a problem for this type of revolver becasue a revolver speedloader existed before for rimless cartridges. if the linked post is true that is.
 
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"The moon clips and their speed for reloads is the entire reason to use a rimless cartridge in a revolver."

entire reason?? i would think that same cartridge in differing firing platforms would be the main reason.

is the speedloader the preferred way of loading rimmed cartridges in to revolvers now?? is there a moon clip like device for rimmed cartridgess now??

i guess if one was with out moon clip or speedloader the carr would still be easier to use.

from what i have read (if true) this was done before and there was a speedloader (a device used on all rimmed revolvers) to load the revolver....so i dont know about teh innovation claims that were made.

but as far as the weapon goes....it can be speedloaded with acp cartridges and ejected quickly....and without speedloaders or moonclips it can still be ejected quickly.

seems good for crisis or target/rec. shooting.
 
While they may sometimes be fired without the specialized moon clips,.............

what does this mean?? did or does a moonclip place the cartridge where the hammer strikes it better?? or can the cartridges be fired jsut as well without a moonclip in the previous revolvers that fired acp cartridges???
 
The moon clip is for extraction. S&W and Ruger 9 mm revolvers headspace on the case mouth. If you look inside the cylinder you will see the rim. Therefore, you can fire rounds without using a moon clip, but you will have to extract the cases with a fingernail or poke them out from the front of the cylinder. The S&W 547 has a set of extractors that open out to engage the case groove when the ejector rod is pushed. Ruger made a 9 mm revolver based on the Six line that had a spring in the extractor star that engaged the case groove. I believe the Charter used or uses a similar system and a legal issue over the extractor delayed the CARR introduction.
 
i am not sure about the headspace issue. wiki says its a distance or some kind or interference between cartridge and chamber. i dont know if thats true or not. it sounds like a lie.


it seems odd that a company would produce a gun and do r and d with out patent clearance first from ruger.
 
Gun companies copy each other frequently, The Ruger LCP is basically a Kel-Tec.

Moonclips Pull double duty for extraction and rapid reload.

differences in cartridge design effect where a case headspaces. Rimless and semi rimmed cartridges like the 9mm will headspace on the case mouth, rimmed, like .38 spec will headspace off the case rim, and belted magnum rounds for big game rifles headspace off the belt.

until your weapon is out of spec, or you handload some oddly long rounds, you shouldn't have to worry about headspace issues.
 
Have you priced a Charter gun lately? It seems that Charter and even Taurus/Rossi are beginning to try and compete with S&W in price as well as the revolver market.
 
This thread is 2 years old. Just looked at Charter Arms web site and still don't see anything in an auto caliber.
 
you might be able to get a HKS 547 to work for the 9mm CARR............. is the carr 5 shot or six shot???

http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Revolvers&action=display&thread=7397

the above link shows a photo of something claiming to be a 547 hks speedloader.

i dont know if its fake or not???

is the hks 547 speedloader of different design than other speedloaders (not moon clips or speed strips) so as to make rimless cartridges speedload properly???

is there an additional mechanism in the 547 speedloader (if its a real product) to somehow hold the catch the groove in the rimless case and then feed it into the cylinder
all the way??

if thats the case wouldnt it be rather old hat to make a speedloader to handle rimless cartridges if it has already been done???
 
sthomper,
That is my photo of the HKS 547 speed loaders. They indeed do exist. As the model number indicates, the speedloader was made for the S&W 547. I do not know if they are still being made as I have not seen them for some time. A call to HKS will answer that question.

There is a nub in the speedloader that, when the knob is turned, moves in or out of the body to engage or disengage the groove in the cartriige case.

I have read that the HKS 547 will load Ruger Speed Six 9 mms, but have not tried it myself as I use moon clips in my Speed Sixes. The S&W 547 has a finger to engage the case groove for extraction and the cylinder is not machined for a moon clip. On the other hand, the Ruger Speed Six extractor is a star that lifts moon clip from the cylinder. One can shoot the Ruger without the moon clip, but extraction is slow and may be difficult is the cylinder bore is rough or dirty.
 
Smoovbiscuit,

My dad's owned a 610-no dash with a 6.5" barrel since the early nineties, and I've put quite a few rounds through it. It's a 50oz. gun, so even full-house 10mm loads feel pretty tame, and .40's feel like 22's. It's very accurate, and a blast for shooting pin matches.

I would love to see a smaller-framed steel revolver chambered for .40.
 
S&W also had a PC gun - the 646 - in their L-frame SS line - with a Ti cylinder. The last run was closeout priced several years back ~$449 locally - a deal that escaped me. While the 610 handles 10mm and .40 S&W, the 646 was .40 only. The utility of that caliber offering was best demonstrated after the last Presidential election in a visit to a WallyWorld or a gunstore. The only handgun ammo they both had on the shelves, at least around here, was .40 S&W!

Stainz
 
i emailed charter arms from www.charterarms.com

someone named dee ecker responded....i assume they are an employee at charter arms and are being truthful.



On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Scott Thompson <[email protected]> wrote:

do you know if a 9mm will be one of those???

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Dee Ecker <[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you for your recent interest in Charter Arms 40 S&W Rimless Revolver. We are excited to provide you with an update on this much awaited product.



The Charter Arms 40 S&W Rimless Revolver is in the final stages of production and range testing with various manufactures ammunition. The new Pit Bull is entirely self-contained and requires no moon clips or additional support equipment. The Pit Bull is made from 416 stainless steel, built on the Charter Arms large frame revolver, with a 2.2” barrel and 5-shot capacity. The Pit Bull will feature a stainless steel matte finish and regular spurred hammer.



By the end of the year, Charter Arms anticipates to follow the Pit Bull up with a 9mm version built on the Charter Arms 416 stainless small frame revolver with a 2” barrel and 5-shot capacity, requiring no moon clips for chambering. Like all Charter Arms products, it will be rugged reliable and affordable.



Sincerely,



Dee Ecker

Customer Service Manager



From: Scott Thompson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: carr revolver???

hello....i have seen links online saying that a carr revolver will be released....soon???


do you know if a 9mm will be one of those???


thanks


scott thompson



Feb 25 (3 days ago)
Dee EckerLoading...
Feb 25 (3 days ago)
Dee Ecker
to me

show details Feb 25 (3 days ago)

We hope the 9mm will be available by the end of the year. I don't know about speedloaders at this time.

From: Scott Thompson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 2:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: carr revolver???
 
if the speedloaders for the 547 worked properly without any more motion needed that speedloaders for rimmed cartridges then i would hope after the weapon is released that speedloaders would soon follow.

but at least you can singly load rounds (perhaps of different makes - same caliber) and extract them quickly too.

savings on loading/extraction time (when speedloading may not be available) and ammunition across gun platforms seems a good idea.
 
While I have never owned a Charter Arms revolver; I was interested in the promise of a revolver that could fire rimless auto pistol cartridges without moon clips. After the promise of the 'Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR)' years ago I thought about getting one.

But they never made it confused.gif

I stopped at a local shop in my area and I saw the charter arms pitpull in .40 S&W. I asked to see it and looked at the star; yup its the CARR!!! Its hard to see from the cell pic but look at the star. It has a little finger widget in it to grap the rimless cartridge.

I didn't buy it because I want one in 9mm or 45 acp, or both. I asked, and they are expecting a 9mm one soon! It'll be mine in short order.

http://charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Pitbull_74020.html
photobucket-1078-1315947750810.gif
photobucket-4598-1315947951936.gif
 
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Thanks for the update mesinge2. I tend towards the 9 mm as well. Would I been dreaming if Charter brought out a lefty as well?
 
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