Cheap bolt-action rifle for the 7.62X39?

[fpgt72]

I have nothing in the commie cartridge, but I do have a CZ 527 in 223 and it is just a fantastic little rifle. I have also read that it would not have issue with steel cased ammo, but mine shoots it for garbage. We are talking with even the most cheap walmart brass 223 I get sub inch groups at 100....with wolf I get minute of paper plate.....and there is really little point in shooting it.

All that said it is an amazing rifle and I hear the x39 is great as well.

 

[eastbank]

ruger 77,s are out there, but you will have to hunt for them. i don,t shoot this one to much as i bought a rem aac 300 bk md. 7 thats 80-85 as fast as the 7.62x39 and lighter than the ruger. eastbank.

 

[Newtosavage]

Eastbank anytime you want to rid yourself of that filthy ruger 77 - just let me know. It would go nicely with my other two stainless 77's

 

[zaitcev]

I would guess the Mosin was made to use steel cased ammo.

The steel case technology didn't exist when Mosin was still manufactured. Even early 7.62x39 was brass-cased. We still had that stuff issued deep into 1980s, with headstamps from 1960s. I think the steel-case ammo was first phased in for the 5.45x39. That one never was made in brass, at least in USSR. After the success of AK-74, other types of ammunition were switched over to steel cases. I would put the time at about mid-to-late 1970s.

 

[peacebutready]

@zaitcev: Thanks

 

[cpt-t]

I have had a CZ 527 Carbine bolt gun in 7.62 X 39, for several years now and it is just a great little rifle. This rifle makes a great walk around rifle. It is very accurate, and very easy to carry for long periods of time. CZ in KC told me that the rifle was designed to shoot the cheap Military Steel Cased Ammo. And mine shoots it so well ((( inch or less at a 100 yds ))) that I have yet to start reloading for it. I just buy the Wolf Brand Ammo it likes by the case at the Gun Shows and go from there. I carry and shoot my rifle a lot, when I'm out just walking around some strange place because it is so easy to carry and so accurate and cheap to shoot and really pretty darn powerful. And because of this I have killed several Coyotes, Deer, and Pigs with my little rifle. And I have also killed a bunch of others smaller Varmints with it like Jackrabbits, Prairie Dogs, Ground Hogs, Badgers, and Foxes just because I carry it so often.
ken

 

[Corn-Picker]

How well does steel cased ammo extract in bolt actions? It almost requires a mallet with my Mosin, but how much better is a new rifle?

I shoot a lot of steel cased ammo through my CZ 527, and I've never had an issue. I replaced the font blade sight (on the barrel) with a peep sight on the rear of the receiver, and I replaced the hooded front bead with a Patridge post.

It's 36.5" long, weighs less than 5.5 pounds, and I can hit anything I can see out to 125-150 yards. That's about as far as I'd want to shoot a deer with a 7.62x39 (it has ~1100 ft-lbs and is going ~2000 fps at 125 yards with a 123 grain bullet). It's about the perfect open-sighted deer rifle for where I hunt. If the cartridge were any more powerful, I'd feel like I would want to scope the rifle, and at that point I'd rather use my 308.

My CZ 527 provides the most fun of anything I shoot.

 

[Jackal]

When Ruger makes an American Predator rifle with a threaded muzzle chambered in 7.62x39, I WILL BUY IT!

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Not all of us can reload.

Not true
Anyone who can shoot can reload
In fact if someone really wants to they can build a nice reloading setup fairly cheap. So customers isn't an issue.
If space is limited, portable setups can be created.
The only excuse is not wanting to and not wanting to learn.

Now I'm not saying wveryone SHOULD. That's a whole different issue and I'd argue the opposite, not everyone should!

 

[chicharrones]

Not true
Anyone who can shoot can reload

The only excuse is not wanting to and not wanting to learn.

Excuse #3. Don't have the time. When all my kids are grown and fully self supporting, I will probably have the time.

 

[Swampman]

I'm sure that if someone thought that they could make decent money manufacturing and selling a low price point 7.62x39 bolt action rifle, they'd do it.

Unfortunately, as others have already pointed out, the 7.62x39 requires an oddball bolt face and different magazine geometry than most existing bolt guns. Designing and tooling up is likely to be expensive and the market isn't going to be very big.

Zastava tried to do it and failed. Gun buyers like a low price point, but they truly HATE weapons that break, especially when they can't get them repaired under warranty. It's considerably worse when they can't even BUY the parts needed for repairs.

I think a lot of people decided that paying a bit more was worth it and bought CZ's offering.

Or maybe they just went with other calibers. Spending $700+ so you can shoot really cheap ammo of indifferent quality isn't likely to appeal to a mass market.

Accurate as any rifle I own (MOA or better all day long with even the cheapest steel case ammo)

That's absolutely incredible!

Not true
Anyone who can shoot can reload
In fact if someone really wants to they can build a nice reloading setup fairly cheap. So customers isn't an issue.
If space is limited, portable setups can be created.
The only excuse is not wanting to and not wanting to learn.

I don't agree with that.

I used to reload in my college dorm room, but even 40 years ago there would have been hell to pay if I'd gotten caught doing it, and that was at a semi-rural Texas cow college.

Can you imagine what would happen to some poor slob that got caught with a pound or two of powder in his U.C. Berkeley dorm room in this day and age?

There are times and places that reloading just isn't feasible.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I'm sure that if someone thought that they could make decent money manufacturing and selling a low price point 7.62x39 bolt action rifle, they'd do it.

Unfortunately, as others have already pointed out, the 7.62x39 requires an oddball bolt face and different magazine geometry than most existing bolt guns. Designing and tooling up is likely to be expensive and the market isn't going to be very big.

Zastava tried to do it and failed. Gun buyers like a low price point, but they truly HATE weapons that break, especially when they can't get them repaired under warranty. It's considerably worse when they can't even BUY the parts needed for repairs.

I think a lot of people decided that paying a bit more was worth it and bought CZ's offering.

Or maybe they just went with other calibers. Spending $700+ so you can shoot really cheap ammo of indifferent quality isn't likely to appeal to a mass market.

That's absolutely incredible!

I don't agree with that.

I used to reload in my college dorm room, but even 40 years ago there would have been hell to pay if I'd gotten caught doing it, and that was at a semi-rural Texas cow college.

Can you imagine what would happen to some poor slob that got caught with a pound or two of powder in his U.C. Berkeley dorm room in this day and age?

There are times and places that reloading just isn't feasible.

Oh yes I forgot about the infamous "gun free zone". And I don't advocate breaking the law. But there are ways around this that are legal and won't get you in trouble. Self storage places, friends houses, etc. Afterall keeping a gun on campus is illegal in most states.

In other words if we get past the excuses someone who wants to reload can if they're creative. A portable setup kept in your trunk, setup at the range and n the parking lot? It would not be the most fun but it's possible!!$!

 

[eastbank]

a older lee loader would allow you to load your hunting ammo and would store in a shoe box, 2-3 boxes a year would do. i used one to load a .222 for a 340 savage to hunt groundhogs in my youth. i see older C presses(some with a shell holder) at flea markets for 10-15 dollars, used dies 10-15 dollars and cheaper, a set of lee powder dippers for 2-6 dollars. a tin of impearial case lube and you are ready to go. mount the press on a square wood board and use C-clamps to hold the board on a table and have at it. to load 100 .308 shells would cost you, 3.00-primers, bullets 22.00, powder 25.00 a pound, loading 50gr loads you would get 140 loads to a pound of powder, making the cost for powder per-100 shells 18.00 dollars. bringing the total cost to about 43.00 dollars for 100 rounds and if you shop around the cost could be lower. five boxes of normal factory ammo would cost you over 100.00 dollars. i don,t save any money, i just shoot more for my money. eastbank.

 

[Tirod]

Not many want or need that application. Put x39 into a magazine fed receiver and then the economy of bullet cost comes into it's own. Bolt actions can't and won't exercise it.

It's really not about the engineering at all, it's about how we perceive and choose our working combinations.

Just to illustrate the point in another way - would you buy a Colt Single Action in 9mm Makarov?

 

[stoky]

undone

 

[Newtosavage]

It's 36.5" long, weighs less than 5.5 pounds, and I can hit anything I can see out to 125-150 yards. That's about as far as I'd want to shoot a deer with a 7.62x39 (it has ~1100 ft-lbs and is going ~2000 fps at 125 yards with a 123 grain bullet). It's about the perfect open-sighted deer rifle for where I hunt. If the cartridge were any more powerful, I'd feel like I would want to scope the rifle, and at that point I'd rather use my 308.

My CZ 527 provides the most fun of anything I shoot.

That pretty much sums up my experience with my bolt action 7.62x39 - great short range hunting rifle that is easy to carry and has good energy out to practical ranges for open sights. I topped my Savage model 10 with a lightweight 2-7 Leupold, but a CZ 527 just yearns for open sights and IMO is on par with my Win. 94 30-30 for ease of carry and quick pointing. And that's saying something right there.

 

[adcoch1]

That pretty much sums up my experience with my bolt action 7.62x39 - great short range hunting rifle that is easy to carry and has good energy out to practical ranges for open sights. I topped my Savage model 10 with a lightweight 2-7 Leupold, but a CZ 527 just yearns for open sights and IMO is on par with my Win. 94 30-30 for ease of carry and quick pointing. And that's saying something right there.

So true, the 527 is a pleasure to carry on a walk in the woods. Mine will wear iron sights until i can't see them. And with a light load and 100grn 30 carbine bullets it doesn't recoil hardly at all, the perfect rabbit and varmint/camp gun.

 

[Swampman]

The steel case technology didn't exist when Mosin was still manufactured. Even early 7.62x39 was brass-cased. We still had that stuff issued deep into 1980s, with headstamps from 1960s. I think the steel-case ammo was first phased in for the 5.45x39. That one never was made in brass, at least in USSR. After the success of AK-74, other types of ammunition were switched over to steel cases. I would put the time at about mid-to-late 1970s.

The 7.62x39 cases below were made at the Soviet Lugansk arsenal (270) way back in 1951. Although they look a lot like brass, they're actually copper washed/brass plated steel cases. The only way to tell for sure is by using a magnet.





According to 7.62x54r.net, the Soviets started making steel cased 7.62x54R in 1936.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm