7.62x39 bolt action finally getting some legs

[LoonWulf]

while do able, i dont really see any reason to do it. Id much rather have a tailored load.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I experimented with restuffing Russian steel cased ammo and quickly came to the conclusion it was far easier just to load brass from the get go.

As a side note you can fireform steel cases in a “improved” 7.62x39 wildcat

 

[R.W.Dale]

 

[CoalTrain49]

iv heard you can take the bullet out of a Russian steel wolf /tul 7.62x39, pop those in reset it in the neck and be good to go.
View attachment 775584

Why would anyone want to tear down ammo just to have a bullet to reload? That's a lot of work for a bullet. I rather just shoot the Russian junk.

 

[Newtosavage]

Wow. Some real misleading information now on this thread...

Allow me to set the record straight, as I own, load for, shoot and kill things with both the 30-30 Win and 7.62x39.

First, most if not all 30-30 factory loads approach NOWHERE NEAR the velocities printed on their boxes. For instance, both Winchester and Federal factory 150 grain 30-30 loads show 2390 fps.. I happen to have chrono'd both of those and out of my pre-64 model 94, I get a whopping 2175-2200 fps! That combined with the terrible BC's of round and flat-nosed conventional 30-30 ammo gives the shooter less than 1K ft. lbs. of energy at just 200 yards.

Now, the LeverEvolution ammo by Hornady - while expensive - is a game changer for the 30-30. I have chrono'd that factory ammo at 2350 fps., and combined with the decent BC of the 160-grain FTX bullet, it delivers very respectable energy (over 1K ft. lbs. IIRC) out to 300 yards.

So, what can the 7.62x39 in a BOLT ACTION (the topic of this thread, might I reminds some here...) do by comparison? Well, sure, the so-called "standard" 123-grain bullet will be pulling about 2400-2500 fps. out of my bolt gun. I have chrono'd Academy steel case Monarch ammo at 2540 (just like the box says) and Hornady SST steel case factory ammo at 2450 fps. I've also chrono'd the factory steel case Tula 154-grain soft points at 2250 fps. What's that you say? 2250 with 154 grains reminds you of something? Why, sure it does. It's just about the same as the factory 30-30 ammo I mentioned above. EXCEPT, it's a spire point with a lot better BC. So if we're just comparing "cheap" ($15/box) factory 30-30 ammo to "really cheap" ($6/box) factory 7.62x39 ammo, then it's a wash in the performance arena, but a near 3x advantage in the budget arena.

But let's talk hand loads for a minute...

What if someone were to take a higher BC bullet like the 125-grain Nosler Ballistic tip that I have loaded in my Lapua 7.62x39 brass, and shoot it over 27 grains of RL-7. Well, they would get - in a good bolt action rifle - about 2500 fps. (sound familiar?) at the muzzle, and because of the good BC, continue to enjoy more downrange energy beyond 200 yards than just about any 30-30 load except the $24/box Hornady LeverEvolution.

What if one were to load that 160-grain FTX bullet in their 7.62x39? What then? Well I've done it and I get 2300 fps. out of my 20" barrel with 25 grains of RL-7, which is only about 50 fps. behind the 30-30 but a whole lot less expensive.

Now, this is coming from a lifetime 30-30 shooter that killed 1) his first rifle-shot deer with a 30-30 (and the next dozen or so) and 2) about 300-400 feral pigs with that same 30-30. My 30-30 is my very first deer rifle. I love that gun. But I also have a degree in science and numbers don't lie. So, believe what you want, but I know what I see from my own guns.

 

[Newtosavage]

What if you want to reload for it? Wouldn't you have to use .310 bullets. Those can't be cheap. Hornady only lists one .310 bullet. Hornady says the most accurate bullet for .311 bore is .310. I have no personal experience, just reading their 9th edition.

No. You don't. .308 bullets work JUST FINE. People need to get over this.

And yes, .311 bullets can be cheap too, if someone were so worried about that 0.003" (or less, depending on the specific bullet).

 

[armoredman]

And I buck every trend and use CAST bullets sized to .311 in my 527M/CSR, and get respectable results as target loads. Heckuva lot cheaper than buying bullets.

 

[adcoch1]

I've been loading 100 grn half jacket .308 bullets designed for the 30 carbine in my brass with a light charge for a small game load. Shoots just as accurately in my cz 527 as anything else I've run in it so far, and it has a .310 bore. I read somewhere that the ruger is also running a .310 bore, I'll try to find the link...

 

[R.W.Dale]

Your optimal 7.62x39 powder case combo is going to be SMALL PRIMED RP cases and AA1680 powder. Nothing else approaches what you can do with that combination.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar15-gets-bloodied-278yds-with-a-7-62x39.405210/

 

[R.W.Dale]

This depicts varying charges of aa1680 and show the CHE of lapua large primed brass vs Remington small.

99% of the time lapua is the best brass made but not for 7.62x39mm

 

[HankC]

SMALL PRIMED

Any specific reason for small primed? Majority of brass cased 7.62x39s have large primers.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Strength and consistency.

There’s a reason the bleeding edge of cartridge accuracy always relies on small primers.

 

[someguy2800]

Back in the day when a. 660 round tin of 7.62x39 fmj Russian surplus was $60 my father in law bought 5 tins for his $80 SKS. Him and his buddy both bought one and a bunch of ammo and decided they were going to give them a try deer hunting. They bought a 500 ct box of American made soft point hunting bullets in .310" on sale somewhere and pulled the fmj bullets from the surplus ammo with an impact puller, poured the powder back in and seated a soft point on top of it. He said they shot quite well and he took one deer with it before giving it all to his brother who was in need of a deer rifle.

 

[LoonWulf]

No. You don't. .308 bullets work JUST FINE. People need to get over this.

And yes, .311 bullets can be cheap too, if someone were so worried about that 0.003" (or less, depending on the specific bullet).

One note, if your dies come with a .311 expanding ball/stem etc, you may want to replace it with a .308 version sized expanding stem.
I loaded a pile of 180grn ssts into a x54 and got good accuracy, cant remember velocity, wasnt quite "book" for the loads but pretty close. The only problem i had was the .311 sized stem the lee dies came with didnt provide good enough neck tension. Easily fixed by going to a .308

 

[adcoch1]

Very good point Loonwulf.

 

[M1key]

My RCBS 7.62x39 dies come with a .308 expander as well as a .311

Haven't needed the .308 one yet. I do use a Lee factory crimp die though and am getting sub-inch with .312 Sierras and .310 Speers out of my RAR.

M

 

[bannockburn]

I'm thinking a bolt action in 7.62x39 would complement my FEG SA85M very nicely and help me make use of some of the ammo I have stockpiled over the years!

 

[Newtosavage]

One note, if your dies come with a .311 expanding ball/stem etc, you may want to replace it with a .308 version sized expanding stem.
I loaded a pile of 180grn ssts into a x54 and got good accuracy, cant remember velocity, wasnt quite "book" for the loads but pretty close. The only problem i had was the .311 sized stem the lee dies came with didnt provide good enough neck tension. Easily fixed by going to a .308

Great point. My dies came with both and of course I use the .308 expander since I load only .308 bullets.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you are loading for a bolt action do yourself a favor and get a lee collet neck die. You will spend fewer steps loading far superior ammunition.

I would load cases to the max plus and even after over a dozen firings they would chamber with ease.

No expander hanky panky either

 

[mshootnit]

this model 7 rem aac in 300bk with 16 " barrel is 36" long and shoot a 125gr bullet at 2250fps with 18grs H-110 and more with little-gun. and a rem model 7 in 308 is available with a 16" barrel. I may rebarrel my mod 7 300bk in the future as I have a new rem 308 barrel and a new bolt with a 308 face. and the 308 will shoot a 125-130gr bullet at 2500 fps with 35.7 grs of H332 with ease and much more if wanted. eastbank.

The real draw here for the new X39 bolt guns is not their performance compactness etc. It is the price point of the cool little RAR and the price point of the ammo. Here is a neat, cheap, thoroughly modern rifle which you can feed for $250/1000 rounds. Now THAT is cool. And you can't do that with a 308.

 

[eastbank]

yes your right, but a 308 will shoot a 150gr bullet 2800 fps and the 130gr bullet 3000fps if and when you need to. if you reload the cost is only the difference in powder cost and a 308 will shoot a 130gr bullet at 2500fps with 32 grs N-130 and a 7.62x39 will do that with 26grs H-4198. so the cost is what the difference in the 6-7 grains of powder cost. I have four 7.62x39,s and one 3000bk and shoot them and have killed deer with them, but they are 200 yards or less rifles to me. we are lucky to be able to own many firearms in this country, so buy and use what you want. eastbank.

 

[mgmorden]

I'm tempted by one of these too. My hunting lately has been typically from a small ground blind, and sometimes manuevering the rifle from one shooting window to another is difficult. A super-short barrel would help a lot with that problem, so this gun seems pretty optimally setup for that.

 

[Newtosavage]

What is neat to me is that people are starting to understand just what an ACCURATE round that 7.62x39 really is, now that they have good bolt action platforms to run them in.

An AR fan with a 7.62x39 upper had a chance to shoot my Savage 7.62x39 bolt gun at the range yesterday. His first three shots on a cold barrel with $5.99/box steel case ammo measured well under an inch. He had never shot a group like that with any 7.62x39 in his life, including his >$1K AR. When people see the kind of accuracy and performance ( we're talking 2500 fps with most cheap steel case 123-grain ammo) they achieve with a modern bolt action rifle, it is going to make them reconsider this round.

Yes, the .308 pushes the bullets faster. We all know that. But at more than 2x the recoil, and the 7.62x39 in a good bolt gun will outperform even the venerable 30-30 in the deer woods unless the 30-30 shooter springs for the pricey ammo. And even then their lever gun will still not be as accurate.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Deleted.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Maybe a Remington 722 chambered for the 300 Savage would be a better comparison. I don't know of any bolt guns in 30-30.

To my way of thinking this isn't as much about the cartridge as it is the cheap imported ammo. In reality 300 Savage is about the same cost (0.20/rd) as steel cased 7.62 x 39 these days with the benefit of brass cases.

A hand loader can go just about anywhere so that's off the table.

Do what? Where are you buying 300 Savage ammo much under $30 a box much less for <$5