Cheap Bulletproof Wall idea

[mountaindrew]

Okay, here is an idea I have been thinking of for a while. The problem is builing bullet resistant interior walls withour breaking the bank or lookin weird. here is my idea.
Basically standard wall construction, with a few modifications. Two by four studs, 16 in apart. 1/4 in hardwood paneling over studs. 5/8 drywall over hardwood. Fill in the space beteen studs with white driveway gravel.(poured in from the top)
I will soon test this theory with scraps from a building projent I am doing, but I think it would work. the gravel would distort, deflect and break up must pistol bullets, and absorb alot of energy. The hardwood panel would prevent the drywall from busting outward. Thaey would look like normal walls, and you could even hang pictues on them. Thaey would only cost the price of a load of grave and sheets of paneling. What do you think, guys, would it help?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Here's my solution...

Just line all interior walls with books. Also provides good soundproofing from outside noises.

 

[sm]

In new construction one can just place bricks. Up to 3' from the floor is safe height, in b/t studs.

Exisitng constructions
The old houses with better framing and all we just drilled a hole from attic and used fine gravel like used in aquariums. Again stop at about 3' from floor. I recall helping do this some almost 40 yrs ago. Real fun tho when a flood, small fire or torado hits...don't even ask about updating the wiring, or anything - a nightmare.

Insurance companies , fire codes,building codes have to be considered. Sucks to find out they ain't gonna pay. "cause of damage..."

Newer constructions and "framing"...well it depends on the framer. Old school / new school framing techniques and the money- how much you want to spend?

Businessnes are easy...new construction, scrap from scrap yard - done. I jsu tused scraps in /under show cases...spray painted to prevented rust... girls get bored ...dust them and re-arrange all the junk in there.

If you get too wild and crazy the wall will buckle, studs shift, nails pull out...and if you ever need to have electrical/phone/cable/security work done...problems.

HK is right.

Books and heavy furniture. Zones of fire and cover.
Kitchens are great place for cover...appliances and all those can,pot and pans.

Besides wouldn't you rather read , and eat than do all that work?

See some old businesses were in the bottom and the folks lived up top.

I also have known folks in certain businesses , that Pro's - now Columbian Gangs- like to target. New construction is a bunch easier to deal with.

I depended on heavy furniture...and Awareness this was THE key for me.

Yes I still assist with some 'stuff', new construction "ideas". Now -a days not the bullets but ...well.

I used bricks in a house I built new. I also planned on being in it for awhile, and intergrated other updates for future stuff, phones, extra cabling for 'puters, routers...etc. In two bedrooms. Ours and the one kid, hug the floor and use the heavy furniture. Never met the Columbian Pro's - I had enough fun keeping tabs / being safe from the ones with US citizenships.

Ex I understand sold the house...oh well...it was a good idea at the time. More than one idea that is...

 

[Quartus]

Two words:


Floor loading.


Not a problem on a slab foundation, of course.

 

[jhisaac1]

In new construction one can just place bricks. Up to 3' from the floor is safe height, in b/t studs.

Again stop at about 3' from floor.

Ummm. Probably most of us are taller than 3'. Unless I mis-understood what you were saying.

 

[strambo]

You hit the deck when the bullets start flying. If someone is gonna hit you with the 1st shot they need line of sight, so 10ft high wall protection won't help.

 

[Quartus]

If someone is gonna hit you with the 1st shot they need line of sight

Only to do it on purpose.


To get you by accident doesn't require seeing you at all. To STOP being hit by accident you need something that will stop a bullet.

 

[strambo]

To get you by accident doesn't require seeing you at all.

True, odds are way longer on that though, I was just giving a possible reason for the 3ft idea espoused by another member. Me, I got completely perferateable drywall from floor to ceiling.

 

[Baba Louie]

Question is... How bulletproof?
mountaindrew, similar to your idea, I've done some design work for places that deal with lotsa money on hand. 8" x 20 ga steel studs at 24" o.c. w/ 1-layer 1/2" OSB (particle bd.) and then sheet rock o/ the OSB - fill the wall cavity with 3/8" pea gravel in 4' lifts up to 8'. Will stop a single .357 round but not a .30 cal rifle round. Once the bullet penetrates one side of the wall and enters the pea gravel the impact is dispersed and it stays inside the cavity... but the pea gravel begins to leak out the hole. Wait long enough and you can then place a second round through an empty cavity through and through.

Problem with wood studs is a .45 auto round can and will penetrate the 3 1/2" of a 2x4.

Oh yeah, wiring in such a wall is almost a forever fixed in place thing. And moisture content... in the desert it's not a problem. If you live where humidity IS a problem, this'll be a place for that black mold to grow. If you throw in some "Boraxo" with the gravel, it'll keep most bugs out for awhile. (Always a good thing).

Then the question is... which bullet do you design for? Drive by shootings which might occur, or a serious attack on your abode by seriously armed miscreants?

Build a mock up or three out at the range some day using 2x4, 2x6 and 2x8 single cavity panels. Fill the void with pea gravel, making sure to have something like old phone books or newspapers for backstop traps and then use various rounds to test.

 

[mfree]

Sounds like $$$$ but it seems to me that if you could loosely place sheets of a ballistic fabric down through the stud space you'd have an effective barrier.

By "ballistic fabric" I mean fabric that's tough enough not to be imemdiately pierced by a bullet in flight. Kevlar matches this but it's pricey.

The key here is dissipation of the bullet's energy. That'll either be by absorption (dense materials or lots of softer material like wood, books) or by dissipation. The bullet would hit the fabric, and since it's loose the entire sheet would bow along, hit the inside sheetrock, and deform the materials without passing through. You'd have a *really* wierd looking hole in your sheetrock with a pinch of kevlar sticking through it, but no bullet *in* you.

At least, I *think* It'd work Substitute fabrics would be nice though, but they'd have to be fire resistant.... treated heavy denim?

 

[mountaindrew]

mfree, I thought of that, but it would just be two expensive. also, the bill of lading (sp) would look really wierd on a construction site ( I don't wnt to attract two much attention) Gravel and paneling are present at most job sites and are cheap. I would probably only do one or two safe rooms. If I was building a house from scatch, I could adan extra rafter or two under the walls to help with the weight.
Baba, I was thinking of the white limestone gravel that we use here for driveways, it pack toghether and doesn't flow at all under a cars wheels and I dont think much would come out of a hole smaller than an inch. Most of the little rocks are 1in-1/2in across and iregularly shaped. I dont know waht do do about the fact that bullets could penetrate the two by fours. would steel studs be any better? Iv'e never used 'em.
By the way I am concerend about stray bullets as well as aimed ones, so the barier woul probably be about six feet high.

 

[Smoke]

Something else to consider...

Many walls are prefilled with insulation. Kinda hard to stack bricks or pour gravel in an area already filled with fiberglass strands.

In thinking out strategies in my new house the thought occured to me to reinforce the walls in a large walkin closet. Gun safe was already in there, cell phone reside there when not on me.

One wall is an exterior wall covered in rock. One wall is to the garage (insulated) one wall is to the office (insulated for sound proofing reasons)
other wall opens to bathroom, effectively alread there as the safe takes up most of one side, cabinets and vanity cover the other. I COuldn't over come the insulation aspect for filling the walls so aborted that idea.

Another thought. How effective are the books? Somebody test that...It would seem the books would go flying. Yes they will deflect bullets...but deflect them where? I would rather stop the bullet.

Smoke

 

[Quartus]

I've a mind to test some OSB one day. OSB is also known as waferboard. That is TOUGH stuff! I think in the thicker varieties (like 7/8" or more) it just might stop most handgun rounds.


Especially if you have a couple of layers of it.

 

[mrming]

Why not just go with cement walls?


If you use some form of conduiting for the wires you could still have a snowball's chance of running new electrical when needed.

That much gravel won't be cheap.. and eventually the wall will bow out at the base. However, unless you live next door to a very active gun range or an extremely high crime area... the odds of a accidental bullet even striking your home is probably only slightly better than being struck by lightening.

 

[Navy joe]

One day I hope to have enough loot to build my house my way. That would be from the basement to the top of the second story poured reinforced concrete. Face the exterior and basement with brick and frame out the insides of the upstairs. For the interior walls I'd probably want some of them to be bullet porous. Have one room each level that was armored, and the rest with a strategic panel or two at likely cover locations such as a door or hall corner. I'm thinking the cover would be maybe 3/8" AR500 plate or something similar. Wallboard everything over, and only you know where you can hide and where you can shoot through to hit those that don't belong.

 

[Baba Louie]

mountaindrew,
Steel studs are "[" shaped in cross section so any rock you use for cavity infill will flow into the negative space. But steel stud framing for residential construction is unique and presents other design challenges (thermal breaks, point loading for floor or roof framing, etc)
7/8" OSB stop a bullet? nah. BTDT. Multiple layers... maybe.
3/8" steel plate is good for most handgun rounds, tho' not high power rifle rounds.
I just decided to go back and re-read your intitial post. INTERIOR Walls Baba (doh!) Use a layer of 1/2" plywood over the studs attaching it with #8 screws at 4" o.c. (better than nails) make sure your gravel is dry. Go for it. Do run a field test tho' using 2x4, 2x6 and 2x8 panels just to see what it will (and won't) stop. Spread those wood studs at 24" o.c. and you've got a 1 in 16 chance of anything coming through at stud points. Studs at 16" o.c. leave you with a 1 in 10.67 chance.
Large gravel (up to 1" sieve) doesn't do as well as pea gravel for dispersing energy, in fact it can become quite active if hit obliquely (think pool ball energy transfer).

Generally speaking on the subject (should you have deep pockets lined with gold)...
If exterior walls, Stone or brick veneer should be 3"- 4" thick minimum, more is better. Against repeated strikes it won't last long.
6" concrete wall panels are good and expensive and have a horrible "R" value (as does a pea-gravel filled wall) but will work as a vault as well.

Think about a half buried semi-basement (called an English Basement for some odd reason) or bermed wall up to 4' in hgt, a log wall (again, handgun rounds only) or stone veneer wainscot up to 3' - 4' which does give you room to drop to the floor within the space should need arise.
Should you feel the need to "return fire" do this near windows and doors which will allow you (and them... whoever "they" are) your window of opportunity.

Raised planters using stone, CMU or brick outside the wall of your choice will do much the same with the combination of hard intitial surface followed by a few feet of soil and another hard surface taking 99% of the energy dump. But they also block line of sight.

Everything is a trade off of one type or another. A few combinations of this and that should give you some degree of comfort from happenstance. It goes without saying that a professional will find a way to penetrate anything and bring harm to you if he feels compelled. It's nice to have surprises ready built for such things should necessity dictate.

 

[scotjute]

Has anyone tried shooting thru those reinforced concrete panels? They ought to cause JHP bullet to fully expand before punching thru. I'd be tempted to try 3/4" plywood on both sides with possibly these concrete panels on outside of plywood. At least your wall would be stout as all get out.

Don't think there will be any cheap methods that don't have some drawbacks to them.

 

[Quartus]

One day I hope to have enough loot to build my house my way. That would be from the basement to the top of the second story poured reinforced concrete.

Nah. Go with concrete tilt-up. Cheaper and just as good. Faster, too.

 

[DragonRider]

what about a Kelvar blanket?? Put up say floor to 3 feet. Put a piece of wood over it, Chair Molding at the top to make it look seemless. Just wondering.

John

 

[mountaindrew]

Rider. where to you get kevlar blankets, and how much do they cost? Iv'e never heard of that.

 

[Kevlarman]

Check these out:
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic-Blankets.shtml

 

[DragonRider]

Ouch, well, I guess 2 four by six blankets in a corner would be the best compromise in my situation if I were to do it. Just thinking is all.

Thanks for the link.

John

 

[Blue Line]

Didn't Jeff Cooper write a book about designing your house with gunports and defensive positions in mind. His own home I remember an article in the NRA mag had places he could cover the front door and other places around his house. I bet if someone did a google search about him they'd hit on his article or book.

 

[Denko]

I drove by Jeff Coopers home.It does have a fort like look to it.