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Material to put in walls to reduce penetration

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Fryerpower, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    When the FBI built their offices in Peoria, the floor they're on in the Technology Plaza building was shared with an Internet company I worked with; knew several of the guys there.

    When building their office, the FBI hung bullet resistant ballistic panels, in place of sheet rock. Literally every wall in that office (exterior hallway and interior office walls) would stop a 44 magnum round.

    Oh if only I had that sort of money to blow.

    Oh wait, I did!

    Then they took it from me in the form of taxes.

    :(
     
  2. desidog

    desidog Member

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    As an architect; I have to say this would be a huge waste of time and money. It is a science to design a hardened facility, and to try to retrofit an existing house will lead to an unsuitable result, and a lot of consternation in the meanwhile.

    For instance, your houses' foundation and footings were designed to hold up the house, not walls full of sand. Likewise, if you put a bunch of stuff in there you'll likely have moisture issues.

    Your time will probably be better spent looking at entry points to the building, and making it harder for people who aren't welcome.
     
  3. Arp32

    Arp32 Member

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    Oh come on, we passed 'reasonable' a long time ago!
     
  4. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    how about good old fashioed bricks? theyre still used to build houses (not the fake vanier facing but real brick and mortar.
     
  5. hueyville

    hueyville Member

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    Half a dozen companies make a fiberglass composite material that is NIJ rated like bullet proof vests. The front of my house has it. When I remodeled my house built post WWII, we pulled the sheet rock, purchased panels pre-slit to width to fit between studs. We also had the studs sprayed with a material that made them rot and fire resistant. Them put insulation and used fire resistant sheet rock to finish out the walls. Then we bricked up to the bottom of the window sills. I purchased doors rated for hurricanes and forced entry with an level 2a NIJ rating. I took out my storm windows and overlay-ed them with this: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...ucts/Commercial/Safety-Security_Window_Films/ It brings your windows to hurricane debris rating and then we added a center storm window made from UV stabilized 1/4" lexan. Our windows will stop a standard velocity 38 secial and our doors a standard velocity 9mm. The walls stop up to 357 mag above the window sills and 44 mag below. The basement had 10 thick poured concrete walls with rebar so we layed a layer of 4" red brick over them so there is now 14" of masonry to compromise. on all visible portions (1.5 sides) of basement that are like this. The rest is protected with dirt. We did a NIJ level 3 door down there and the windows same as upstairs on used 1/2" lexan between storm windows and the regular double pained insulated glass. Our major concern was tornadoes but being bullet proof to a degree was an extra bonus. We built a panic room in the basement for the wife with NBC air filtration and two security doors at 90 degree angle to each other. Actually all this added about 10,000 dollars to the total remodel but I do have a relationship with the vendor it all came from. Remember to build in some firing ports so that you can shoot out if necessary. Other tricks to the way we did it but would take quite the post to describe it all.
     
  6. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Shouldn't be any moisture problems adding wood and Lexan (no shift in relative humidity between adjoining rooms) to interior walls and it's not an unbearable weight to the structure itself.

    Having remodeled several rooms of my house including a bathroom to include new floor, walls and ceiling, the lathe and plaster removed resided on materials similar to those used in modern construction and had survived 80+ years without cracking or problematic settling/cracking of the foundation walls (basement block walls). 2Xs are cheap and Lexan, even for 1/4" will probably see an investment of around $1,500 for two walls in a typical home. That being the case, it may pay dividends to invest additional funds in finishing off the remaining wall, adding a secure door and lock set and specialty windows for a safe room of sorts. I don't know if Lexan qualifies as a compliant product but it insulates far better than glass and might qualify for tax credit if you itemize.

    I would be interested in how well flooring might hold up, things like solid strip vs. Pergo or similar laminates. Too bad the walls can't be filled with government bureaucracy though, I hear nothing gets through the red tape.
     
  7. leeggen

    leeggen Member.

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    bullet proof

    In all it would be better to find a safer neighbor hood. A 223 inside the house
    is not a good thing, even it it was coming from me pulling the trigger.Almost everything suggested would add enorum weight to your floor joist. Drywall is not going to stopp 223. Just try and see how many layers of 1/2 it will take to stop the round,"come on country boys hold my beer and watch this " It would take alot of money and remodeling to do such a job, not a DIY peoject.
     
  8. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Nope, he was ratted out
    no amount of fortification would have protected him, it it would have, he would have stayed in on of his bunkers (very well built BTW, brought in Yugoslav specialist firms)
     
  9. Isaac-1

    Isaac-1 Member

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    My thought on a budget is scraps of heavy fiberglass cloth of the type used for boat building, etc.soaked in epoxy. I know in years past it was possible to buy left over remnant bits of fiberglass cloth for a fraction of the price of new, and since your not worried about overall structural strength just wetting and gluing theses together in place draped in the voids would provide some ballistic protection. You might need to do some testing to determine how much is enough. There are online sources for low end bulk 2 part epoxies that should work for this sort of application.
     
  10. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    It will also do wonders for your cell phone reception and your Wi-Fi.
     
  11. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    The resin used is beyond toxic with fumes that could choke a skunk, not a good choice for inside work. I glassed a cedar strip canoe I built at age 16 and didn't know any better but I do recall that smell. It would be difficult to pre-form pieces elsewhere to install later, especially with scrap. Good for noise control, bad for health.
     
  12. unlimited4x4

    unlimited4x4 Member

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    Mythbusters episode 112 "coffin punch"

    Check out this episode. Very interesting. Used two 12x12 sheets of small bathroom tiles and a fiber reinforced gypsum grout/cement. It stopped 9mm, 45 acp, and buckshot. Did not stop .223 or slug, however it would be where I start if I wanted to use household items to make a bullet proof wall. Search the survivalist forums, there are threads on this topic too. Do some testing, I bet you can come up with something. You want materials that absorb energy, so rigid is not always best, look for some sort of mesh material, like a thin steel mesh that might cause the bullet to fragment before it hits the tile layers. Good luck, and if you figure something out report back!
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  13. jbkebert

    jbkebert Member

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    I have used armortex in commercial construction. heck I still have about three sheets of the stuff. It went inside the judges bench the witness bench, and the walls to the judges chambers. A pain in the tail to cut needs to be abrasive wheel or diamond blade. It will jamb a nail gun. The only good means of installing is pre-drill than use screws.

    My little testing showed that it would stop a .44 mag from 10 feet. A .223 drills a little hole right through it. A .300 win mag blows a baseball sized hole through it. This was with level two.
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Not sure why .223 continues to be mentioned. I watched an episode of TacTV? with The LV shooting numerous calibers into mock walls of traditional construction spaced 12' apart. 9mm FMJ went through the 3 or 4 walls they had constructed (2X4 sandwiched with drywall), through the aluminum siding of the far wall and was lost. Buckshot IIRC penetrated 4 layers (through first wall, across the "room", into back of second wall) and .223 FMJ broke up between the first and second layer of wall #1 leaving 3 small fragments in the far wall of second wall. My guess is that fewer than 20% of the 55gr. bullet crossed the room to the far wall. I'd bet it would not make it past 1 layer of Sheetrock and 1 3/4" of stud.

    As the OP mentioned, the intruder's choice of ammo is the primary concern. As for me, rooms are arranged such that I should not have to fire in the direction of another bedroom or have a perpetrator shooting toward my children either but that is only the idea. I hope to never test such a plan. Centered around Rule #1.
     
  15. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Bookcases make good cover. :)
     
  16. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

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    Bookcases or bookshelves

    Yes they do...

    Do them as built in book shelves so that you have an excuse to pull the drywall, fill the void with something to soak up the energy, build the book cases with 3/4 inch plywood at the back bolted directly to the studs.

    Perfect excuse to go in there in the first place, great looking addition to the room, plus all of the books on the shelves can help if anything gets through.

    Jim
     
  17. brboyer

    brboyer Member

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    Low-tech: A couple strategically placed book shelves - Problem solved.





    ETA: Al beat me to it. :(
     
  18. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Anybody know how well Hardibacker works? (fiber-reinforced cement board) Use that instead of gypsum.
     
  19. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    Shreeded denim jeans. Do not compact them, but should work as well as kevlar. You want sufficient air space within the material to break up the path of the bullet.

    Jim
     
  20. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    Question, why are you shooting the walls in your place? chris3
     
  21. Arp32

    Arp32 Member

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    These are just the kinds of silly questions that derail a good thread!
     
  22. Isaac-1

    Isaac-1 Member

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    The resin used is beyond toxic with fumes that could choke a skunk, not a good choice for inside work. I glassed a cedar strip canoe I built at age 16 and didn't know any better but I do recall that smell. It would be difficult to pre-form pieces elsewhere to install later, especially with scrap. Good for noise control, bad for health.

    Your probably thinking of the old style polyester resin, not epoxy resin which is mostly odorless
     
  23. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    He is not, he wants it to go with the tin foil hat he is wearing (LOL).

    Remember that no matter what you put in the walls, it will not stop a 300 Win Mag, 338 mag or a 50 BMG.

    Jim
     
  24. JonnyGringo

    JonnyGringo Member

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    Hardibacker won't stop a pellet gun, however it is an excellent fireproofing material. I have done extensive testing with this material with excellent results

    The O.P. I have hands on experience with your situation. I made a mock-up wall panel 2x4 construction with 1/2' ply on each side and filled it with DRY 3/4 crushed gravel. It stopped close to 100 .223 rounds, three clips of .308, and finally succumbed to repeated blows from my 338 win mag. The gravel inside was pulverized a bit with each successive shot and eventually settled to the point that it had insufficient mass to stop the assault, however that was after major punishment. I would sit behind that with confidence under direct fire from a wide range of weapons for quite some time. Build one of your own and conduct your own testing, I think you will be amazed by the results. Crushed gravel is much lighter than just about anything else with sufficient density to stop penetration and is much cheaper than anything else you could think of. Make sure it's DRY. Also make sure you provide some additional support at all necessary bearing points.
     
  25. r1derbike

    r1derbike Member

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    I like the bookcases idea! Brilliant!
     
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