Cheapest handgun you would trust for defense...

[Hokie_PhD]

But since I don't really trust a combo of gun and ammo to work together reliably until firing many hundreds of rounds, and I'm not really satisfied with MY abilities with a gun until thousands of rounds of training,

Please explain
I ask to learn so no insult intended
I'm curious why you feel a need to run many hundreds of rounds through a gun?

Does it really take you that long? Does each gun feel that different to you? Or are you striving for a very high level of accuracy?

After years of carrying a PF 9 I got an XDS 45 for Christmas. I cleaned it. Then took it to the range with a couple of boxes of ammo. It felt very comfortable and I was sure there were no issues with it. I was also confident it was accurate And I could hit where I was aiming.

Fired some defensive ammo and all was good. Comfortable and accurate so I feel safe and secure carrying it.

Since we're all different I'm curious why the large round count and what you're doing. Again not to insult but to learn as your approach seems very different than my experience.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Please explain
I ask to learn so no insult intended
I'm curious why you feel a need to run many hundreds of rounds through a gun?

I want to know the failure rate of a gun/ammo combination. Without getting too deeply into the stats of it, if you only shoot 100 rounds of a gun/ammo combo without any failures, you really only know with confidence that the failure rate is near or below 1%. To be confident of a failure rate closer to 0.1%, you need to shoot closer to 1000 rounds.

As an engineer, I've done a lot of work in reliability testing and failure analysis. My motto is, "If it hasn't been tested, it doesn't work." I've seen a lot of mechanical systems fail when changing one component that other engineers (theoretically) predicted would not cause a failure.

Most shooters with quality handguns and quality ammo are themselves the weakest link in the system after testing a gun/ammo combination with 100 rounds or so. But for me, the stakes of a system failure are more important than the odds. I prefer continuous improvement of all aspects of the system.

If a shooter has a gun/ammo combination that has been validated through 1000 rounds and has a high level of proficiency with that system, their failure rate will most likely be much lower than switching to a new system which may have only been validated with 100 rounds.

I recommend going to some action pistol (IDPA, ISPC, Steel Challenge, 3 Gun, etc.) events near you. The higher finishers usually have all the bugs worked out and have very few failures. But pay attention to most of the less experienced shooters. Most of them have gun/ammo failure rates above 1%, some a lot higher.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Thank you for your reply. As an engineer myself I appreciate the detail of your answer and your logic.

It would be nice to know the problem rate of a particular gun. I say that as I remember breaking in new cars vs now manufacturers say a breakin isn't needed. I still don't drive them hard the first 500 miles and do a first oil change early.

I guess with a quality gun and ammo I don't see failure as something that will show after a magic number of rounds. But rather as either at first or after repeated use due to a defect. As you know the later us harder to predict.

I guess I just feel that my XDS is well made and it's fired great after the initial cleaning. So I'm comfortable carrying it. Granted it's not a cheap gun. And maybe I'd fell different if I was going to carry something cheap. I fired the ammo I carry through it but I'm not going to do 1000 rounds of defense ammo to confirm.

That said my PF 9 is clearly a cheaper gun in fit and finish. And the more I've shot it at the range the more it's seemed to have broken in.
I shoot mostly cheaper FMJ at the range than a magazine or two of the JHP I carry.

I'm with you 100% percent on being proficient via more use aka more range time. I know the more I shoot the better I get the more it becomes automatic and the less chance of failure due to my error.

I'm also with you on competition, I'm hoping to try some matches this year. For the reasons you cited.

 

[Gun Master]

I have a Norinco 213. People tend to put them down but check them out. Very reliable, easy to handle. Thin. Will handle any +p or +p+ ammo. They feel good in the hand and are accurate. Down side is they are a bit big. Pretty heavy, and people will ridicule you if you pull one out.

My Norinco says Model 213, but I found that it is the same gun as the Model 54.
I do like the Browning design ergonomics. Reliability, natural feeling grip in the hand, thin (as you said), and usually a low price.
You have a good gun.

My belt holster carries it conveniently tucked in my right hip pants pocket.

What I hate is the "required" import safety. But I just ignore it and leave it on "fire", and use the half- cock on the hammer, if chambered.
You be the judge. Don't carry chambered, if you can't do it safely.

If it's heavy, get some Perry Suspenders or a shoulder holster.

I don't get the "people will ridicule you" part. No one should be "flashing a gun", unless you are threatened or at the range.

Take care now.

 

[bubbatime]

I've bought two Smith SD9VE hand guns for $269 shipped each. You would be hard pressed to find a better self defense pistol for less money. They go on sale 3 to 4 times a year for that much. While they are similar to the older Sigma pistols, they have a redesigned trigger that is decent enough, and they are 100% reliable.

In the used market, I've bought a 92FS for $275, two G17's for $299 each, and a Glock 22 for $299 as well.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I HAVE trusted my life many times to my Ruger RST-6, way back when it was the only handgun I owned. Never mind I could then empty the mag on target in a couple blazing seconds, I would still be generally lambasted today for using a .22 for HD. But it was certainly better than nothing. it was $92 when new, and was in essence the cheapest gun I've ever trusted my life with. Right now, my "everything" gun, my $200 KT P32 BUG is always on me, so that is the cheapest, and it's only when the primary is not on me for whatever reason.

 

[Paladin7]

Personally, I don't trust cheaper handguns to defend my life or the lives of the people I love. There are certain brands I will never own, because of their spotty reliability records. Just search the forums on a few brands and that will tell the tale.
If I was on a limited budget, I would buy a Makarov, because they are very well made simple designs that are reliable and with the right loads effective. I would also consider a used S&W or Ruger Revolver. They are high quality, very reliable if maintained, and yes, revolvers can fail too, so maintenance is key. A used quality revolver can be had for much less than a new one in certain markets. Used gun prices vary widely by region.

 

[Don357]

$125 Cobra Derringer (Remington style) .38 SPL. Or my TZ99 that I paid $250 for. Tried, tested, and proven.

 

[agent89]

There are a few good options around the $300 mark. Ruger 9E and the Walther Creed, Smith SDVE. I have a SCCY 9 CPX-2, no safety. Use it as a truck gun, it shoots fine. Never had a problem with it. I think they are going for $225 these days. The smith shields are going for under 300 also. I have looked at a few tests on the creed and it looks to be a real nice pistol for that price.

 

[Hokkmike]

Let me start by saying I'm not looking for a super cheap pistol or anything, I'm fine dishing out the bills for a modern high capacity auto from a reputable maker.

BUT, I thought this may make an interesting discussion. If you were (or are) pinching every penny, and want/need a handgun to defend self and family if such a sittuation should arise, what would it be?

For me, I think it would be the good ole Makarov or one of its cousins/clones. They seem to still be available for a little over 200 so I suppose around 250-275 once shipped and transferred. They are reliable, smallish, and fire a relatively useful round.

So.. what's the cheapest handgun you would trust?

SCCY - but then, If I needed a doctor I definitely would not look for the cheapest one, or pilot, or wife, or tire...........

 

[FLNT4EVR]

ARMSCOR M206 2 INCH .38 Special .

 

[SonofGilnockie89]

A pal got a Norinco (Chinese Makarov clone) chambered in 9x19 that he paid $75 for. I don't know why but I swear to god that was one of the most unreasonably accurate handguns I've ever used. I was bouncing a 2 liter bottle around at well over 100 meters. I'd have carried it without worry if nothing else was around.

 

[Tcruse]

P Series Rugers usually fall on the high side of the $200-300 range.

Yes, but since they stopped making them the prices have gotten higher.

Some of the Tias (Turkey) guns are real good deals and good guns.
Canik PT9SA would be another.

 

[Tcruse]

For cheap, with great quality, shoots forever, with no hick-ups and sends out a screaming, put you down round, look no further than a quality Tokarev 7.62 x 25 - I have a few and prefer the Polish Version. Can be had in the $225 range and usually comes with two 8 round mags. Ammo is not too crazy, at about $20 / 24 for a box of 50.

Yes, these guns are good. However, when you consider the cost of ownership, they become more expensive than standard 9mm guns. If you do not practice or take training then one box of ammo may be all you would ever need, but if you are interested in self protection, you probably will go thru "lots" of ammo every month.

 

[theboyscout]

Sccy 9mm is a daytona company and made well no haste life of the gun warrenty. The warranty follows the gun no matter how any owners. At florida gun exchange $250.

 

[1911 guy]

Ruger P series, Makarov, Hi Point (even though they are as ugly as homemade sin) or RIA M200. All can be had new or used for under 300 bucks.

 

[Gun Master]

A pal got a Norinco (Chinese Makarov clone) chambered in 9x19 that he paid $75 for. I don't know why but I swear to god that was one of the most unreasonably accurate handguns I've ever used. I was bouncing a 2 liter bottle around at well over 100 meters. I'd have carried it without worry if nothing else was around.

I really like mine. Basically, the good old Browning design.

 

[Bobson]

An LCP for $199. I trust it.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ Yep. On sale for that now at Bass Pro. Might pick me up one (or even two.)

 

[Mark 40]

Never really thought of it in those terms; but it so happens my two EDC choices are lower cost brands. But I chose them because they work for me, not based on cost. I carry a Taurus 85 and a Kel-Tec P-32. My fun guns, a Ruger Single-Ten and LCR 22LR are considerably more expensive.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I trust for defense a gun that has proven itself reliable.

I do not trust an unproven gun regardless of its reputation or price tag.

 

[MedWheeler]

Mark 40 writes:

Never really thought of it in those terms; but it so happens my two EDC choices are lower cost brands. But I chose them because they work for me, not based on cost. I carry a Taurus 85 and a Kel-Tec P-32.

I have a 3-inch stainless Model 85, made in 1995. A pretty rare bird, from what I can tell. It's a very impressively-made and tightly-fit piece, and a good shooter at that. I don't carry it that often, though, because of the barrel length's adding to concealment issues.

My P32, though, can go just about anywhere. It gets pocket-carried, with its ten-round magazine in place, when traveling to and from my uniformed, no-carry job site, and frequently does second-gun duty at other times (with the seven-round magazine then.)

 

[phil dirt]

Like you said ......... get a Makarov. They are built like a tank.

 

[35 Whelen]

Let me start by saying I'm not looking for a super cheap pistol or anything, I'm fine dishing out the bills for a modern high capacity auto from a reputable maker.

BUT, I thought this may make an interesting discussion. If you were (or are) pinching every penny, and want/need a handgun to defend self and family if such a sittuation should arise, what would it be?

For me, I think it would be the good ole Makarov or one of its cousins/clones. They seem to still be available for a little over 200 so I suppose around 250-275 once shipped and transferred. They are reliable, smallish, and fire a relatively useful round.

So.. what's the cheapest handgun you would trust?

I bought an SAR B6P a month or so ago because I didn't have a full size 9mm. From Classic Arms it was $249.99. Shipping, transfer fee and all totaled $285. As of right now I'm approaching 1000 rounds and I have deliberately refrained from cleaning it to see if it'll quit, which it hasn't yet. It's also remarkable accurate and takes CZ75 magazines with very minor modification.





A couple of weeks ago I found a used one for <$190. This thing has been through the mill and apparently never, ever cleaned. I disassembled it, cleaned it up, did a little work on the trigger pull and now it's every bit as good as my "new" one.

35W

 

[Hokkmike]

A local gun shop has a Taurus 9mm priced "out the door" at $205. He has another Taurus (double stack) 9mm out the door for $235. Some of my friends shoot these. I guess they are ok.; people seem to have a lot of opinions about them.