Chipperman
Member
Ouch.
Well obviously those weren't REAL Black Talons, because that would have ripped his whole arm off.
Well obviously those weren't REAL Black Talons, because that would have ripped his whole arm off.
check this out
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MachIVshooter
Member
This example clearly illustrates one of the flaws in the Glock design. Granted, following the rules would have prevented this, but I am thouroughly uncomfortable dropping a hammer with any living thing in front of the muzzle (except when hunting
).
That said, some of us at some time will pull the trigger without thinking about it (ido-second, I guess). I did it once years ago with my G-3, and it scared the crap out of me. Fortunately, my rifles are kept chamber empty, because if it had had one in the pipe, I'd have sent a .308 cal. 150 gr. FMJ round out into the world I have never failed to triple-check a chamber since.
Most of us who handle firearms frequently will eventually discharge a round unintentionally, be it an AD or ND. But by making muzzle control paramount, only our confidence (and ear drums) will suffer for it.
). That said, some of us at some time will pull the trigger without thinking about it (ido-second, I guess). I did it once years ago with my G-3, and it scared the crap out of me. Fortunately, my rifles are kept chamber empty, because if it had had one in the pipe, I'd have sent a .308 cal. 150 gr. FMJ round out into the world
I have never failed to triple-check a chamber since. Most of us who handle firearms frequently will eventually discharge a round unintentionally, be it an AD or ND. But by making muzzle control paramount, only our confidence (and ear drums) will suffer for it.
nyresq
Member
oooowwwwwww.... thats gotta be a whole new kind of pain. I'm glad to hear your going to retain use of your hand.
two questions though,
1. do you make a habit of picking up a gun and not press checking it after its been sitting out of your control? One habit I was taught by my older brother was to never trust that some one didn't mess with your weapon if it was out of your control. if it leaves your control, press check it, it could save your life if you mistakenly think its loaded and get the dreaded *CLICK* or worse when you think its safe and get the *BANG* OUCH!
2. did you give it the old homer simpson "DOH!" after you saw the hole?
Glad to hear your going to recover and that you can share this with other, but all I keep thinking of is the DEA guy..."I am the only one in this room professional enough to handle this gun *BANG*..."
two questions though,
1. do you make a habit of picking up a gun and not press checking it after its been sitting out of your control? One habit I was taught by my older brother was to never trust that some one didn't mess with your weapon if it was out of your control. if it leaves your control, press check it, it could save your life if you mistakenly think its loaded and get the dreaded *CLICK* or worse when you think its safe and get the *BANG* OUCH!
2. did you give it the old homer simpson "DOH!" after you saw the hole?
Glad to hear your going to recover and that you can share this with other, but all I keep thinking of is the DEA guy..."I am the only one in this room professional enough to handle this gun *BANG*..."
Stolly
Member
I think you all missed the real problem in this whole incident.
The problem was that the guy said that Crash was an "awesome" movie. That was really his first mistake.
The problem was that the guy said that Crash was an "awesome" movie. That was really his first mistake.
MachIVshooter said:This example clearly illustrates one of the flaws in the Glock design. Granted, following the rules would have prevented this, but I am thouroughly uncomfortable dropping a hammer with any living thing in front of the muzzle (except when hunting
What most folks overlook is that the Glock has a safety feature absent on other guns. If it is NOT cocked, the trigger satys in the rear position. Just taking it into your hand lets you easilly feel if it's cocked.
If the trigger is in the front position, it is plainly stupid NOT to check the chamber! I mean, if you 1911 folks see a 1911 has the hammer cocked, doesn't that get a bit of your attention? A trigger up front on a Glock is just like a cocked hammer, a sigh of a loaded gun.
Before disassembly is not the right time to pull the trigger on an empty chamber. Doing it after one has checked the chamber is the right time. This way you store the empty gun with trigger back, and can dissasemble it immediately if you want.
And last not least, the Glock is a striker fired gun. Almost every striker fired gun WILL go bang if you take it apart loaded. I learned it the hard way myself with an old Rhoem dome 30 years ago. I too have a stupid big scar in my left hand.
AStone
Member
triple checking
I'm thankful for threads like this, even though I lament the man's injury that led to it.
First, thanks again to Pax for reminding us of those 4 rules. (I've bookmarked this thread in 3 of my bookmark folders for frequent review: shotguns, rifles & pistols.)
Second, I want to offer a comment about fallability of human consciousness and a story about the importance of "triple checking" when it comes to activities that can lead to death.
Somewhere between Rene Descartes & Albert Einstein, humans in the western world came to believe that we are "machines". This is due in large part to a pervasive view that philosophers of science call "the mechanistic perspective": the world and everything in it are machines ("mechanisms").
As a biologist who has taught anatomy & physiology, I can attest to the large number of references in modern biology textbooks to "mechanisms" in our body: hearts are viewed as pumps; blood vessels as pipes; kidneys as filters; bones as levers, brains as computers, etc.
The view is egregiously incorrect. Neither we nor any other living thing is a machine. Living beings lack the precision of machines that can be precisely programmed to do a repetitive task over and over and over again without fail.
Human cognition, including perception, is fallable. That's why crimes are hard to convict based on eye witness accounts alone.
Rock climbers (I'm one, even though never got past novice stage) do a routine when rappeling: check the knot, double check the knot, then have your partner check your knot. You only get to make one mistake when rappeling.
Here's a story that I recently posted in another thread (pirates and guns) a couple of weeks ago that relates to my obsession with triple checking.
A few years ago, I walked into the Eddyline kayak store in Anacortes, WA to pick up my new kayak. I was greeted by somber faces all around.
When I asked why everyone was so somber, they told me that morning a man had been found in the harbor upside down in his kayak, drowned. Seems he was a novice, and when he put the tight-fitting neoprene spray skirt on the cockpit, he forgot to leave the pull strap out. He also had no knife to cut himself out.
He flipped over, couldn't get the neoprene skirt off, couldn't eskimo roll, and couldn't cut himself out.
All the way home (6 hour drive), with my kayak on my truck, I thought about the way he died, imagining the horror of what his last minutes must have been like.
Since then, I've always triple checked:
Pull strap out? Check.
Pull strap out? Check.
Pull strap out? Check.
Now, I do the same thing with my guns.
Nem
I'm thankful for threads like this, even though I lament the man's injury that led to it.
First, thanks again to Pax for reminding us of those 4 rules. (I've bookmarked this thread in 3 of my bookmark folders for frequent review: shotguns, rifles & pistols.)
Second, I want to offer a comment about fallability of human consciousness and a story about the importance of "triple checking" when it comes to activities that can lead to death.
Somewhere between Rene Descartes & Albert Einstein, humans in the western world came to believe that we are "machines". This is due in large part to a pervasive view that philosophers of science call "the mechanistic perspective": the world and everything in it are machines ("mechanisms").
As a biologist who has taught anatomy & physiology, I can attest to the large number of references in modern biology textbooks to "mechanisms" in our body: hearts are viewed as pumps; blood vessels as pipes; kidneys as filters; bones as levers, brains as computers, etc.
The view is egregiously incorrect. Neither we nor any other living thing is a machine. Living beings lack the precision of machines that can be precisely programmed to do a repetitive task over and over and over again without fail.
Human cognition, including perception, is fallable. That's why crimes are hard to convict based on eye witness accounts alone.
Rock climbers (I'm one, even though never got past novice stage) do a routine when rappeling: check the knot, double check the knot, then have your partner check your knot. You only get to make one mistake when rappeling.
Here's a story that I recently posted in another thread (pirates and guns) a couple of weeks ago that relates to my obsession with triple checking.
A few years ago, I walked into the Eddyline kayak store in Anacortes, WA to pick up my new kayak. I was greeted by somber faces all around.
When I asked why everyone was so somber, they told me that morning a man had been found in the harbor upside down in his kayak, drowned. Seems he was a novice, and when he put the tight-fitting neoprene spray skirt on the cockpit, he forgot to leave the pull strap out. He also had no knife to cut himself out.
He flipped over, couldn't get the neoprene skirt off, couldn't eskimo roll, and couldn't cut himself out.
All the way home (6 hour drive), with my kayak on my truck, I thought about the way he died, imagining the horror of what his last minutes must have been like.
Since then, I've always triple checked:
Pull strap out? Check.
Pull strap out? Check.
Pull strap out? Check.
Now, I do the same thing with my guns.
Nem
If you ever cock a loaded revolver and decide not to shoot your only choice is to lower the hammer on a live chamber, people have successfully managed this manuever for about 150 years without anyone feeling the need to devise a different system. The glock system is fine as long as you dont actually point the gun at your hand and shoot yourself with it. No design in the world will save you from misfortune if you get in the habit of doing that.
More safety
I've been a shooter for 50 years, and always thought I was super safety concious. My Dad, a WWII Marine tought me well.
But the other day in one of the forums here someone made the point that they verbally say to themselves, "The gun is loaded" after they loaded their handgun. I have now added that out loud verbal reminder to the mental triple check I have done for 50 years since I was 6.
I have not had an AD yet, and guns are around all the time, with at least one always loaded for HD or on me. Nothing goes into my safe loaded. Ammunition is stored in a separate safe from my weapons.
Like I said, I thought I was pretty safe, but I want to thank however it was who got me started talking out loud to myself. I did it last night as I loaded my Centenial 640 at bedtime, and I have to tell you, I REALLY think it made a deeper impression on me. I will continue this habit when I handle, especially when I have cleaned or taken apart or used a firearm and am knowingly reloading it.
Whoever it was, thanks for the tip. Who says an old dog can't learn a new trick
I've been a shooter for 50 years, and always thought I was super safety concious. My Dad, a WWII Marine tought me well.
But the other day in one of the forums here someone made the point that they verbally say to themselves, "The gun is loaded" after they loaded their handgun. I have now added that out loud verbal reminder to the mental triple check I have done for 50 years since I was 6.
I have not had an AD yet, and guns are around all the time, with at least one always loaded for HD or on me. Nothing goes into my safe loaded. Ammunition is stored in a separate safe from my weapons.
Like I said, I thought I was pretty safe, but I want to thank however it was who got me started talking out loud to myself. I did it last night as I loaded my Centenial 640 at bedtime, and I have to tell you, I REALLY think it made a deeper impression on me. I will continue this habit when I handle, especially when I have cleaned or taken apart or used a firearm and am knowingly reloading it.
Whoever it was, thanks for the tip. Who says an old dog can't learn a new trick
280PLUS
Member
WOW,,,
It's amazing how many shooting accidents occur in the cleaning phase. Similar to meat slicers. If you're going to get cut on a meat slicer it's always during cleaning.
Mental note: ALWAYS CHECK FOR CLEAR BEFORE CLEANING, ALWAYS!!
It's amazing how many shooting accidents occur in the cleaning phase. Similar to meat slicers. If you're going to get cut on a meat slicer it's always during cleaning.
Mental note: ALWAYS CHECK FOR CLEAR BEFORE CLEANING, ALWAYS!!
entropy
Member
Glad he's OK and was willing to post pics and such. Betcha he never does that again!
*NOTE TO SELF* Review the Four Rules. Repeat daily. Add the Rifleman's Prayer for good measure.
*NOTE TO SELF* Review the Four Rules. Repeat daily. Add the Rifleman's Prayer for good measure.
Chipperman wrote:
Actually, I would also like to point out that real black talons would have gone through the tool box, the wall behind it, a school bus, and an orphanage. In addition to that, he should have immediately burst into flames and be instantly transported to the 4th Circle of Hell for the rest of eternity.
Perhaps they were Golden Sabres disguised as Black Talons.
Remember, machines largely dislike human beings. That is why you must never, ever trust a machine. Machines come into this world fully aware that no matter how well they are cared for, they could at any time be deemed obsolete and dismantled and destroyed. And while a great many of us take good care of our machines and would never allow it, machines are not a trusting sort, and sometimes turn on their owners when they least expect it. Just like circus animals and politicians.
Follow the Four Rules like your life depends on it, because it does.
Actually, I would also like to point out that real black talons would have gone through the tool box, the wall behind it, a school bus, and an orphanage. In addition to that, he should have immediately burst into flames and be instantly transported to the 4th Circle of Hell for the rest of eternity.
Perhaps they were Golden Sabres disguised as Black Talons.
Remember, machines largely dislike human beings. That is why you must never, ever trust a machine. Machines come into this world fully aware that no matter how well they are cared for, they could at any time be deemed obsolete and dismantled and destroyed. And while a great many of us take good care of our machines and would never allow it, machines are not a trusting sort, and sometimes turn on their owners when they least expect it. Just like circus animals and politicians.
Follow the Four Rules like your life depends on it, because it does.
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