China has come a long way in knife production (Enlan EL-01)

[Snowdog]

I'm not a collector of knives, though I do have a few.
I typically believe the knife you carry should be the best quality you can afford. So, I carry a Benchmade Strker 910 (D2 steel, G10 scales liner lock) and have for the past 10 years.

I've largely ignored knives made in China as some years ago they were garbage, IMO.

Recently, I decided to make a few "go bags" for family members who've expressed interest in the idea that include both a fixed bladed knife and a folder.
A coworker suggested I look into Enlan knives made in China if I wanted a decent quality folder on the cheap.

I went on Ebay and purchased an Enlan EL-10 with Khaki G10 scales and 8Cr5MoV Chinese steel blade from a vendor from who ships from China, $15 including shipping.

I have to say that once I did receive it (a lengthy 3 weeks ship time), I was pleasantly surprised. The knife is tight and looks to be tough enough for camp work. The fit seems good, though there was a spot on the blade (false edge) that exhibited some machine marks. For $15, I'm impressed.

I went ahead and purchased 7 more for the go-bags (black handles rather than khaki this time). The remainder had little if any machining marks and were just as tight and solid.

For the money, these seems to be a decent knife for a tool or tackle box. The only downside I can think of is the weight as they have some heft.

Here are a couple images of 2 of the EL-01 knives with my EDC 910.

 

[Sam Cade]

I'll have an EL-01A tomorrow for preliminary T&E.

Some of the Vendors on Amazon occasionally have Enlan, Sanrenmu and Ganzo knives in stock and free 2-day shipping.

 

[ugaarguy]

Snowdog, China is like any other industrialized country. They can make knives as good as anyone in the world. Quality is affected by what the designer specifies, and is willing to pay for production. Even Spyderco and Benchmade have some of their knives made in China now. And you're right - It really is amazing how much quality you can get for the dollar on knives made there. The Boker Plus Subcom Titan is a great example of what the Chinese can do when the designer bumps the street price up to the mid $30 range, and specs a titanium frame lock with a 440C blade.

 

[hso]

Years ago at the Blade Show I was with a group consisting of senior employees from Camillus and they commented about the rising quality of knives out of China. One comment mades was, "The Germans taught them to heat treat and now we've taught them quality control.".

As said, the factories in China can produce any quality level desired and we're seeing that in the U.S. marketplace.

 

[19-3Ben]

Agreed with the above. I had first heard about rising quality of Chinese knives right here in NFW about a year and a half ago
I went on FleaBay and bought two Boker Plus pocket knifes for about $10 or so for each.
I've had them and used them since. They've exceeded expectation. They are not and will never rival the equivalent models from Case, but they definitely waaaay outperform the price tag and the usual products from China.

 

[Sam Cade]

They are not and will never rival the equivalent models from Case

How so?

Case Tru-Sharp is just 420HC AFAIK so the better Chinese knives are using superior cutlery steels already.

 

[hso]

Sam,

I don't know that I'd call the Chinese steels in use "superior" to 420HC, just more modern (whenever they use recognized steels). When Camillus was still in business I knew they and Case were very happy with it when properly heat treated. The performance for Case and Camillus and Buck was good also due to the heat treat and their geometries. It takes a keen edge and is easy to sharpen without having to use anything other than simple stones or ceramics. Coupled with the lower expense from a raw material and production standpoint there's a lot of good to be said for 420HC (just the HC version, that is).

It isn't as wear resistant as 154CM and S30V, but it is a lot cheaper and easier to sharpen and we know what it is as opposed to having to become familiar with XCrYMoZV steels.

 

[JohnKSa]

Quality is affected by what the designer specifies, and is willing to pay for production.

And by how closely the production output is monitored. I spoke with one small business owner who was having some products manufactured in China and he indicated that he had to carefully test the products from each new batch to insure that they weren't cutting corners. He had found problems on several occasions and had to send a couple of entire batches back to the factory.

Chinese manufacturers have the capability to do anything they want. AND, they are used to getting away with anything they want. A company can get good products manufactured in China as long as they put in the time to make sure that what they're getting is what they specified.

 

[JERRY]

there are a lot of Chinese made "infidels" out there, if you don't know the real thing from experience its easy to be duped, they are that close.

 

[hso]

I personally know knife manufacturers who made a point of making almost monthly trips to their manufacturing "partners" in China to ensure they got the product they were contracting for. Those monthly trips became quarterly and then 2x a year as they established the level of trust in those factory owners and their operations staff.

With the introduction of ISO compliance at particular factories in China the need for visits to put eyes on the actual manufacture of an order has fallen off. What that means in China is that the factory will produce the actual quality of product specified consistently, not that they'll produce every price point product to the same high quality. The Chinese understand that if the customer wants them to produce the lowest price point possible they will adjust the quality accordingly and consistently deliver it just as they will for the customer that wants the highest quality possible and is willing to pay for it.

 

[Sam Cade]

I don't know that I'd call the Chinese steel superior to 420HC.

The Enlan is 8Cr13Mov so within a gnats hair of AUS-8.
http://www.agrussell.com/Steel_Guide/a/73/

Its going to be HT dependent of course, but I'd rather have have the tougher steel in a working knife.

We will beat on it tomorrow and see how it does.

 

[Yo Mama]

China has come a long way in knife production

Enlan, and many other Chineese companies have stolen patents including designs and locks. Their version of the Axis lock is a prime example. I can't bring myself to look at them. I work hard for what little money I have, I won't support counterfeiting.

I know they may have improved manufacturing, but I'm not going to carry a blade made in China.

 

[j1]

China now makes quite a lot of good knives. I know as I have bought quite a few.

 

[Sam Cade]

Their version of the Axis lock is a prime example.

Do you know for certain that Enlan/Sanremu haven't licensed the McHenry/Williams lock?
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/5737841.html

 

[Snowdog]

Sam Cade, do you plan on posting your impression of the EL-01A here on THR? I'm interested to see what others think of this inexpensive knife.

 

[Sam Cade]

Yup. That is the plan.

 

[Yo Mama]

Do you know for certain that Enlan/Sanremu haven't licensed the McHenry/Williams lock?
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/5737841.html

Benchmade has exclusive license and use of the McHenry/Williams Axis Lock. It will expire in 2015. I'm not expert in patent law, and I know that BM used the same factories that many Chinese companies also used, but BM never made an Axis lock model in China.

Paired with "borrowing" designs by many China made blades including Enlan, I'm just turned off by them. I know they may be getting better at making them, but that's not necessarily a good thing. I want them to be behind in US offerings. There is a sense of pride that's worth a bit more money.

I hope your testing goes well Sam, as always I'm still interested in you torturing steel!

 

[Double_J]

I have had a bunch of Chinese knives over the years. Some were cheap flea market throw away knives that I used for yard work/bait knives and others were very good quality. My daily carry right now and for the past 7 years is a kershaw vapor that was made in china. It held up to a lot of abuse when I was doing industrial maintenance. I was able to keep it sharp with nothing more than a few passes on a stone every day.

 

[Sam Cade]

It will expire in 2015. I'm not expert in patent law, and I know that BM used the same factories that many Chinese companies also used, but BM never made an Axis lock model in China.

See, therein lies the rub. An "exclusive" license doesn't necessarily mean "only one who can use the patent". BM might have an exclusive license on the McHenry/Williams lock for North America and Europe but not Asia.

*shrug*

OTOH the Chinese could just be unscrupulous pirates.

It's a shame Benchmade doesn't let me look at their internal documentation.

An exclusive license may be granted by the patent owner to a licensee. The exclusive license prevents the patent owner (or any other party to whom the patent owner might wish to sell a license) from competing with the exclusive licensee, as to the geographic region, the length of time, and/or the field of use, set forth in the license agreement.

A license is not an assignment of the patent. Even if the license is an exclusive license, it is not an assignment of patent rights in the patent or application.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s301.html

 

[hso]

Do you know for certain that Enlan/Sanremu haven't licensed the McHenry/Williams lock?

I do.

According the Les DeAsis of Benchmade they are exclusive world wide on it.

 

[Sam Cade]

I do.
According the Les DeAsis of Benchmade they are exclusive world wide on it.

Well, there you go.



...and that is why we keep hso around folks. He knows stuff.

 

[hso]

Naw, I talk to people that knows stuff. I just remembers some of it.

BTW, Sanrenmu is notorious for stealing designs. They make a Sebenza knockoff that you shouldn't mention around Chris Reeves unless you want to see fireworks. The scum have even ripped off Mantis's most successful design now that it has become a cult favorite.

I've made it clear on several occasions here and elsewhere that a company that doesn't pay the developer/inventor for their designs they use are companies I will do everything I can to discourage people from doing business with. I literally want them to go out of business and the people responsible to be ruined for the rest of their lives. As you might get the impression, I despise them.

 

[Sam Cade]

Ok guys, I've got my Enlan EL-01A here... F&F of lock liner and scales seems to be near perfect. I've snap-cycled the blade just over 1,200 times with no discernible change in lockup.

Edge grind as delivered is meh. Slightly irregular and asymmetrical. Initial edge is able to push cut notebook paper but will not shave.

I can't seem to find my smallest torx wrenches :banghead: so I can't break it open just yet.

Will do start some comparative tests once I re-edge it. Will probably start another thread for the sake of organization.

 

[zhyla]

Did some poking around on eBay to see what Enlan folders are available for cheap. The EL02 or EL02B look kind of nice. Almost without exception their designs seem to have a very vanilla flavor to them. I guess you need to have a certain level of reputation before you start cranking out oddball stuff.

 

[Sam Cade]

Almost without exception their designs seem to have a very vanilla flavor to them.

More of an imitation vanilla flavor.


The EL-01xx draws some styling cues from Rick Hinderer but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a copy.


Some quick pics: