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CHL carrier kills man

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by tnieto2004, Mar 30, 2007.

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  1. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Houston guy with CHL shoots and kills someone when he bumps into him .. incredible


    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4670424.html

    Houston & Texas News

    March 28, 2007, 11:22PM
    Man shot to death on Metro bus
    Preacher also shot in his home, bringing 5-day homicide toll to 11

    By ROBERT CROWE and MIKE GLENN
    Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

    Subscribe NOW

    At least 11 slayings have occurred in Houston since Saturday, and the latest came Wednesday when a Metro bus passenger shot another passenger who had bumped into him, police said.

    The victim and suspect apparently got into an argument while the suspect was trying to get off the bus in the 11700 block of Westheimer, Houston police said.

    The suspect, who had a license to carry a concealed handgun, shot the other man in front of about 30 passengers at about 11:30 a.m., police said.

    "Murder charges are pending, but we will present it to the district attorney, and it's likely that charges will be accepted," said Capt. Dale Brown of the Houston Police Department Homicide Division. "It's also possible it will be referred to a grand jury."

    In another slaying on Wednesday, police said armed robbers entered a preacher's home in the 14500 block of Ameece and killed him.

    Perry O'Neal, an itinerant preacher and carpenter who came to Houston after evacuating Beaumont during Hurricane Rita, was fatally shot at about 1:30 a.m.

    "He was a beautiful person," said O'Neal's brother-in-law, Randolph Simpson. "He really believed in the (Holy) Spirit."

    O'Neal and his wife, Annette, were sleeping when two men appeared in their bedroom, demanding cash and jewelry.

    The suspects, whose faces were covered by red bandannas, forced O'Neal and his wife into the bathroom as they continued ransacking the house, police said.

    O'Neal began struggling with the armed suspects when they forced him out of the bathroom. He was shot several times and pronounced dead at the scene, HPD investigators said.

    Spike not unusual
    HPD's Brown said the spike in homicides is "certainly an elevated rate and it's certainly higher" than the average of seven killings per week.

    "But it's not unusual to have spikes," he said. "Sometimes it fluctuates from week to week."

    The Harris County Medical Examiner's Office has confirmed 14 homicides — including six on Sunday — inside Houston city limits between Saturday and Wednesday, said spokeswoman Beverly Begay.

    "I would agree it's a spike to see that many in those number of days," she said.

    About four hours before O'Neal's death, Jose Saul Garcia, 26, was gunned down in his Nissan Sentra parked outside his apartment in the 6400 block of West Bellfort.

    Garcia's 2-year-old daughter was in the back seat at the time, but she was not injured, police said.

    One hour before Garcia's death, another 26-year-old man was fatally shot — in what police believe was an unrelated incident — nearby in the 10400 block of Sandpiper.

    The victim in the bus shooting, a 30-year-old black man, and the suspect, a white man in his 20s, had not been identified Wednesday.

    Houston police Capt. Dwayne Ready said there was no sign the shooting was racially motivated. "I don't know if they had an altercation prior to getting on the bus or whether the argument began on the bus."

    The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. The alleged gunman was arrested and at least one passenger was taken to a hospital complaining of chest pains after the incident, which occurred on the 82 Westheimer route on Westheimer between Wilcrest and Kirkwood.

    "This is a rare occurrence," said Metro Police Chief Tom Lambert.

    He noted that Metro carries 330,000 passengers daily on 1,300 buses.

    Metro crime statistics show there were no other killings on Metro vehicles in 2006 or 2007. There were 15 aggravated assaults between October 2005 and September 2006 on buses and at Metro facilities. There have been eight aggravated assaults reported between October and March.

    When police arrived, paramedics were already on the bus and had the suspect's gun, police said.

    The alleged shooter was "sitting in the back of the bus with his hands raised and was very compliant," Ready said. "He was then taken into custody without further incident."

    Fluctuating numbers
    Before the bus shooting, police had confirmed 81 slayings in 2007. The number is still down compared with the same period last year, when there were 90 slayings.

    "Year to date, the numbers are still looking pretty good," Brown said.

    Last year, the city averaged 35 slayings per month, but this year it has averaged less than 30 per month. Slayings were down in January and February compared with previous years. By Wednesday, however, slayings were on pace to meet or exceed the March 2006 numbers.

    "Does this recent five-day period indicate we will see that rate continue?" Brown said. "It's too early to say because it fluctuates week by week."

    Chronicle reporter Kevin Moran contributed to this report.

    robert.crowe@chron.com; mike.glenn@chron.com
     
  2. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

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    Not enough info about the CCW incident to make an informed decision.
     
  3. jlbraun

    jlbraun Member

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    It made the news because it happens so rarely. CHL carriers are still orders of magnitude more law-abiding than the average citizen.
     
  4. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    not from Aristotle

    The "anti's" will love it alright!

    It supports the disconnected thought process.

    -If he was not permitted to have a gun; he would not have had one to shoot with.
     
  5. EllisWyatt

    EllisWyatt Member

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    Why does the title of this thread have the word "murder" in it?
     
  6. Limeyfellow

    Limeyfellow Member

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    I don't know about that, the only people I hear making it an issue beyond an unfortante incident is the few people here who use it as a way to criticise antis.
     
  7. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/4672366.html

    March 29, 2007, 9:43PM
    Man charged in fatal shooting aboard Metro bus

    Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

    A 24-year-old man has been charged in Wednesday's fatal shooting of a man aboard a Metro bus in west Houston.

    Garrett William Mallot has been charged with murder in the shooting death of Otis James Francis, 31, in the 11700 block of Westheimer.

    Mallot is accused of shooting after Francis bumped into him while exiting the bus, police said.

    The victim and suspect apparently argued, and the suspect, who had a license to carry a concealed handgun, shot the other man in front of about 30 passengers at about 11:30 a.m., police said.
     
  8. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    The witnesses on the bus claimed it was a verbal argument after one man bumped into the other.. A horrible incident which happens all too much (Not the CHL but the murder in a vehicle)..





    EllisWyatt: murder n. # To kill (another human) unlawfully.
    # To kill brutally or inhumanly.
    # To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
    # To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
     
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Right, but the point is that we have guilty until proven innocent here in this thread.



    He has not been convicted of unlawfully killing anyone yet.

    Therefore, there has been no murder at this point.
     
  10. hagar

    hagar member

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    I think the newspaper is deliberately telling only part of the story. Here is my take on the story.

    CCW holder is on bus, minding his own business. Get's bumped by another passenger, who then loudly proclaims "get your honkey &**&^ out of my way". CCW holder goes "well excuse me for being in your way" and get's a "you want a &^^ whipping for dissing me? See this here knife? I'm gonna cut your &*&*".

    Don't come to a gunfight with a knife. I'll bet money that something similar to this happened. And I will bet more money that the ccw holder had no criminal record (kind of obvious, since he had a ccw), and the other guy had a lengthy one, including probably assault and battery. And then the newspapers play it out as a bumping that turned into a shooting, not a threat against his life that turned into a shooting.

    A friend of mine in AZ shot a drugged up young punk that jumped over his fence at 3am on a Sunday morning, kicked his rear patio door in, refused to leave, and even after he bashed him in the head with the shotgun butt, got up again and again, all the time threatening to kill him. When he saw that the guy was nuts and it was going to be a fight to the death, he shot and killed him. The police arrived one minute later, his wife was on the phone the whole time. The punk was evicted from a party one block over by the police, but instead of locking him up for the night, let him go even after he threatened that he was going back to "get them". He mistakenly picked my friend's house instead, and at age 22 he already had a lengthy record for drug dealing, car theft, burglary et al. Guess what the newspapers reported?

    Young man slain for inadvertently trespassing.
     
  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    The media gets everything wrong. I would bet that this report is incorrect by factual omission.
     
  12. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Completely different circumstance.. He killed a man on a public bus with at least 30 witnesses .. Your friend didn't have murder charges against him I assume ..The news in TX isn't as one sided as some states .. I hope this young man gets what he deserves ..

    I was asking myself "I wonder how long until the whole news bashing starts" :banghead:

    I find it bizarre that it seems everyone is sticking up for him because he was a CHL carrier ..


    John List was a law abiding handgun carrier (So it seemed) .. I suppose the media blew that out of proportion
     
  13. EllisWyatt

    EllisWyatt Member

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    Thank you. I also note that murderers do not typically hand their murder weapons over to EMTs and quietly wait for police to arrive to arrest them for murder.

    Murder means malice, and there is nothing in this newspaper article to imply malice, nor has the man been convicted, and I rather doubt the original poster has special inside knowledge that the rest of us lack.
     
  14. EllisWyatt

    EllisWyatt Member

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    Perhaps we're just pointing out that not all the facts are in, and the man's behavior is not that of your typical murderer.

    Have you ever been on a public bus when two passengers get into an argument? Everyone else on the bus does their best to look somewhere -- anywhere -- else. I find it highly unlikely anyone on the bus actually saw much of what happened, except for "OH MY GOD GUNSHOTS!"

    Ask Massad Ayoob his opinion on eye witnesses.

    Murder charges are not at all unusual in self defense shootings. It's easier for police to drop charges later than to explain to the news media why the shooter "was released to roam the streets with an itchy trigger finger."
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2007
  15. romma

    romma Member

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    Mods, I would suggest this title gets modified. Based on not having enough info..
     
  16. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Close enough .. I forgot about the whole "Thats not PC!!" crowed .. He is charged with murder.. 30 witnesses .. Weapon in custody .. Sitting in jail .. Good enough for me .. Hope he gets whats coming to him .. I wouldn't mind my streets being a little less full of hot-heads ..
     
  17. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Well thank God it was in Texas where that liberal mentality of never blaming the criminals isn't too prevalent.. I don't mean to sound rude but I cannot tell you how many times I have heard (In Houston) another man shot in road rage .. I have personally had friends harmed because of the insane drivers here in this city .. It is a horrible experience no matter what .. I hope he gets what he deserves .. I am tired of the mentality of never holding the criminals accountable ..
     
  18. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Maybe you need to pay more attention.

    You will find that we stick up for lots of people THAT HAVE NOT HAD A TRIAL OR BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING YET.

    And you certainly won't be shocked that we question whether or not the press is reporting all the facts accurately.

    But hey, just minor inconveniences to you apparantly.
     
  19. Rev. DeadCorpse

    Rev. DeadCorpse Member

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    Withholding judgment until we hear "the rest of the story".
     
  20. romma

    romma Member

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    Just because he's charged, doesn't mean he's guilty!
     
  21. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    I pm'd a mod and asked them to change the title .. See guys now he killed a man .. MUCH better!! But you know .. we didn't technically check his pulse so he really may not be dead (We may have to change the title again) .. It could be made up by the newspaper .. :scrutiny:
     
  22. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    First off, the Houston Chronicle is ANTI-GUN. Big time. So the news in Texas is just like the news everywhere else. Hagar was perfectly accurate in what he said.

    As far as the charges, the District attorney is a jerk. He files charges on everyone he can.

    Gets what he deserves??? You don't know what that is buddy. He may not be guilty at all. Questionable shoot, maybe. But guilty of "murder"? I dunno yet and neither do you. Having a clean record and a good reputation should mean something. Having a record full of priors and a bad reputation should also mean something.

    Everyone is. In this case, the criminal might very well have been the person that was shot.... You need to keep that in mind before you start screaming for someones head.
     
  23. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    The Texas ACLU and Texas State Rifle Association have learned that he continues to advise LE to arrest and ignore new legislation around handguns in cars (non CHL holders).

    More here if you care.....pdf file, not a webpage FYI

    http://tsra.com/docs/AboveTheLaw.pdf
     
  24. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Insufficient Data

    Need more facts.

    Media is not helping on this one.
     
  25. romma

    romma Member

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    I wouldn't put it past them... :rolleyes:
     
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