CHL Regrets?

[hobbeeman]

I took my CHL course yesterday. In the course, the instructor gave example after example of what I can only categorize as abuse (or at least borderline abuse) of CHL holders by LEO's.

I don't usually think of myself as naive, but I did not think that this was as common as I now believe, especially in the smaller city in which I live.

I don't wish to form an adversarial relationship with LEO's.

The other thing that was taught to us is that someone 21ft away can stab you before you can get your gun unholstered and fire a round in defense.

I am now wondering if I should get some knife training, and only use my firearms in my car, home and for sport? Use it where I don't have to have a CHL or identify myself as having a concealed weapon?

Have you ever had second thoughts about your CHL?

 

[nextjoe]

The only second thoughts I've had have been about the fingerprinting requirement in my state. I've never been printed, don't want to be printed, and hate the idea of my prints being on file. Criminals get fingerprinted, not law-abiding citizens.

That said... I'm re-taking the CCW course next month. I took it the first time two years ago, then ended up moving and never got the permit.

 

[nextjoe]

By the way, for more info on the "21 feet with a knife" situation, do a search for "Tueller drill."

 

[scubie02]

I didn't like being fingerprinted either. But then in NY you have to be fingerprinted to be a teacher too. With the way they fingerprint kids now, soon enough they'll have everyone's prints one way or another.

 

[Mixlesplick]

I have never had second thoughts about getting a concealed pistol license. I would have gotten one ten years ago if Michigan had been shall issue at the time. Even before the cpl I had "means" to defend myself. I have believed strongly in the right to self defense since I was a kid.

My one encounter with a police officer when I was armed came when I was in a minor traffic accident. It went welll. I handed him my driver's license and cpl and all I got was a sharp look as he asked if I had the pistol on me. He never disarmed me and he went on with the investigation of the accident. Then he game me a ticket. The accident was my fault. There was no way to paint that picture otherwise. The other driver was never aware that I was armed.

There are ways to deal with the situation if you feel you are being mistreated because you are armed. I would ask for a supervisor to be present. I would also be ready to file a complaint after the fact. Unfortunately, we have to let the situation unfold at the time and take it. Alone on the side of the road is not the place to get into a confrontation. It is the price some of us have to pay to exercise our rights.

 

[trickyasafox]

im in ny and i turned 21 this past may. i had to be fingerprinted for my internship, so i got both done the same day. one went back to my place of intern the other went with my permit info

i am very doubtful that keeping your fingerprints off file will keep you below the radar. everyone leaves a paper trail. i dont care who you are. if someone really wants to find someone, its not to hard

 

[nextjoe]

i am very doubtful that keeping your fingerprints off file will keep you below the radar. everyone leaves a paper trail. i dont care who you are. if someone really wants to find someone, its not to hard

I know it won't, especially since Michigan requires permits for handguns. It just sickens me to give up one more little shred of privacy :banghead:

 

[HighVelocity]

I don't wish to form an adversarial relationship with LEO's.

All my contacts with LEO's since getting my CHL have been uneventful.
I've been pulled over twice for speeding and after producing my DL and CHL, was simply told "Please slow it down a bit" and was on my way without even a written warning.
I believe that by showing your CHL, you're telling the officer that, I'm one of the good guys". After all, you had a state and fed background check, fingerprints and coughed up a pile of time and $ to get that CHL. A criminal isn't going to worry about a license.

 

[Working Man]

The little flack one may or may not get by being a CHL holder is
little to deter me from maintaining mine. The once in a lifetime
chance that I may need it makes any hassle more than worth it.
Besides it is well with in my rights to do so and I will not be chased
away from them. If things ever got more serious with the anti-gun
movement, that's even more reason to stand up and be counted.
I refuse to loose my right to carry.

The other thing that was taught to us is that someone 21ft away can stab you before you can get your gun unholstered and fire a round in defense.

The knife thing is more of an example to promote a person to be
aware of their surroundings. Being aware is you first line of defense.
You have to think about how you are going to carry and how you would
react in a certain situation. There is quite a lot to think about and a
plan of action should already be figured out. If it is going to hold up under
fire... who knows... your mind could go blank, you could freeze, but you
have a better chance if you have already given it some thought. Remember
hesitation kills.

 

[centuryhouse]

I'm in DFW area also. The only stop I've been involved in was for a registration sticker being expired, and I had the new one in the seat next to me ready to be put on the window when I got home.

The officer was courteous & did not disarm me. I think he said something jokingly like "as long as you don't take it out and wave it around then it doesn't bother me at all" before he walked back to his car to run my license.

 

[m39fan]

The only time that I wanted to know if you had a permit and were armed is if I was going to/could see it or if you were under arrest!!!! Indiana doesn't require that you announce the fact and truthfully, the ones that did announce it seemed a little to anxious to do so (i.e. Hi officer, I'm Rambo and I have a gun. I'M SPECIAL! ) If your state requires that you announce the fact, then do so. Otherwise you may have a cop that wanting to know exactly WHY you're so happy to announce the fact especially if it's during a traffic stop (the most dangerous duty a cop can do).

Just my .02,
Mike

 

[waterhouse]

My experience has been the opposite of what you mention. When I lived in Virginia there were a couple of times when I was pulled over where I said "Just for your safety and awareness, I have a CHL and I am carrying. It is on my right side right behind my hip in an inside the waistband holster. How would you like to proceed?" I said this right after they asked for my driver's license and with my hands still firmly attached to the wheel.

One of them told me to drive more slowly in the future and let me go without ever looking at my driver's license. The other asked me to slowly step out of the vehicle and he took the gun. He even asked me if I would "mind if he temporarily took possesion of the weapon while he ran a quick check." He then ran my driver's license and checked my CHL, and then gave me my gun back and sent me on my merry way with no ticket.

 

[boofus]

Your CHL does not permit you to carry knives for defense. Stick with the gun.

 

[neoncowboy]

Have you ever had second thoughts about your CHL?

Yes.

'Bearing arms' is what we are doing when we carry concealed, open or otherwise.

It's an innate, God given right protected by the 2A. How some idiots decided I have to have a permit to do it is beyond me.

Everytime I see my permit in my wallet it reminds me that the government made me ask permission, pay a fee and satisfy other requirements before it would let me exercise myright!

Sometimes I think it would be a lot more satisfying and fulfilling to carry without the permit...maybe I won't renew it when it expires.

 

[Gordon Fink]

I’ve been fingerprinted as part of background checks for various jobs, so the damage is done. My fear is that I may leave my prints at a future crime scene and become a suspect as a result, but I probably shouldn’t worry.

~G. Fink

 

[RRTX]

I've heard of very few cases here in TX of law enforcement harassing CHL holders. I have no regrets of getting mine and carry every time I leave the house unless I'm going somewhere that I can't carry. I would rather have it on me and not need it, than need it and not have it. The fingerprint deal doesn't bother me, the military has my DNA on file and I've been printed for security clearances before so I'm already in the "system."

 

[ny32182]

I've never had contact with LEO's while carrying, and I've already been fingerprinted (I remember them doing it at school when I was very young, and its probably happened at some time since then too), so no, no regrets.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The other thing that was taught to us is that someone 21ft away can stab you before you can get your gun unholstered and fire a round in defense.

You are referring to the Tueller Drill.

The point of the drill is to demonstrate how quickly an adversary armed with a knife can get "up close and personal." At the time Lt. Tueller came up with the drill, the basis was that it took a trained officer approximately 1-1/2 seconds to draw a duty weapon from a duty holster. And further experimenting showed that an armed attacker could cover 21 feet in that length of time.

21 feet was not the key number. The key number was 1-1/2 seconds, and 21 feet drived from that. For a typical CCW holder the critical time element will be greater than 1-1/2 seconds, and therefore the critical distance will be greater than 21 feet.

Fact: Newer retention holsters require more time to draw, hence 21 feet is no longer valid. The appropriate distance today is farther.

Fact: The average CCW (CHL) holder cannot draw from cover within 1-1/2 seconds, hence 21 feet is not a valid distance to "justify" deployment of a handgun for a "civilian." Again, the appropriate distance is farther.

And lastly, the BG can still cover the 21 feet in 1-1/2 seconds, regardless of what's hanging off your belt or in your pocket. If a police officer wearing an exposed holster needs 1-1/2 seconds (or more) to draw, how long do you realistically think it's going to take you to fumble around in your posket, find and withdraw your Cold Steel tactical folder, open it up and assume a defensive posture? My bet is the BG will have you for breakfast while your hand is still in your pocket.

21 feet is NOT far! Think shopping center parking lot. The average parking stall is typically between 19 and 21 feet deep, so when we're talking 21 feet, we're talking about a BG traveling from the front of your car to the back of your car. Think about it -- in that perspective, 21 feet doesn't seem like very far at all.

 

[Jhorn]

Chl

I have lived in San Antonio and DFW since I have gotten my permit and unfortunately I have had to give my CHL to a few LEO's (used to have a heavy foot!) but all of my experiences have been very good, none have ever wanted to even see the weapon.
I have renewed my permit a couple times and some of the instructors got 'side tracked' with many stories, just take in to account the individual, not everyone repeats a story exactly as it happened.
No regrets.

 

[JohnKSa]

Your CHL does not permit you to carry knives for defense.

There is no permit required to carry a knife for defense in TX as long as the knife is not an "illegal knife" as defined in the penal code.

A single edged folder with a blade 5" or less that doesn't open automatically is legal.

As far as the original question: I have never been hassled by an LEO over having a CHL.

Closest I ever came was at an accident scene where someone came over the center yellow line and hit my car. The DPS trooper who responded was in a nasty mood (it was late on a rainy night), and when I informed him (as required by law) that I was carrying a gun he told me curtly to leave it in the car, that the last thing he needed was someone waving a gun around.

 

[RavenVT100]

The only second thoughts I've had have been about the fingerprinting requirement in my state. I've never been printed, don't want to be printed, and hate the idea of my prints being on file. Criminals get fingerprinted, not law-abiding citizens.

I just have to laugh at this. In my state, you're required to be fingerprinted and wait for what could end up being six months to a year to even own a single handgun. I said own, not carry.

All I can say is that if you don't want to ever be fingerprinted (and release your private medical info to the police, release details of family members and refs to the police, et cetera), stay politically active and write your representatives. Because I can promise you that you will end up having to be fingerprinted in order to own any guns if the Democratic Party gets what it wants.

 

[M2 Carbine]

hobbeeman, I think your instructor has some kind of agenda or he's just full of poop.

Since I got my CHL I have been stopped by almost every kind of LEO there is, DPS, Sheriff, locals and and even four times in the speed trap at Lott, if you know where that is.

Not only was there no problem at all, but I didn't get one ticket. Even at the Lott and one other speed trap.

I've never heard of anyone that I know having the least bit of trouble from LEO's about their CHL.

I'll continue to renew my CHL as long as I can pick up a gun.

 

[Drizzt]

I've not found too many LEOs who've had any sort of issue with the CHL. In fact, most of the DPS troopers I've talked to think its a good thing. It seems to be the leadership, rather than the workers who complain about it.

 

[nfl1990]

One thing to consider about the 21', it assumes that the BG has the knife out and ready

 

[wdlsguy]

I think your instructor has some kind of agenda or he's just full of poop.

+1