Choosing a powder for use in rifle with pistol caliber

[jmorris]

So, if I decide I want to hunt, what is it about a powder that makes it a good hunting powder? If I want to plink, what makes a powder good for that? If I want quiet or more power, what parameters do I look for - etc...

Lots of powders are good for hunting, the projectile is more important than the powder pushing it anyway; however, if you are hunting, you probably are not going through a pound of powder in a decade, so charge weight/cost are not very important.

If you are wanting to plink away by the thousands (pretty much just throwing money away in the name of having fun) you might want a lower cost alternative so you can send the maximum number of bullets down range per dollar spent.

Quiet, is generally with the smallest charge weights and power with the heaviest. Small charge weights are generally with fast powders and go up as burn rate slows.

One other consideration that can be quite important is ensuring you don’t load a squib or double. Small charges of fast powder, while great for a number of reasons will allow one to double charge a round and mangle a firearm, themselves or both. If you are that guy, I would highly suggest a load where a double charge would overflow the case, making it less likely to hurt yourself.

 

[film495]

I use 3.5 grains of Win 231, with 158 grain SWC, or LRN. Kind of a mouse fart, but a good plinking round. I haven't shot them in a rifle yet, but I'm working on it. Eventually I'll do some .357 and I'm sure the load data will be similar, maybe a bit more powder, and possibly a plated bullet, but I'll use the same powder. Pistol rounds in a rifle or carbine seem to do fine, maybe not perfect efficiency - but, they'll work good. Doing it the other way, you're making a flame thrower and will have a ball of fire out the barrel. I've looked at the same question you have here and I expect I'll just use a common pistol powder and not worry about it until I've used up a pound, and then I'll review. Probably years from now ... lol

 

[gwpercle]

Just about every printed published Loading Manual has rifle data and handgun data .
I'm looking at Lyman 50th Anniversary Reloading Handbook , Hornady Handbook 8th edition and Speer Reloading Manual #14 . I'm sure there are others others .
Look in the rifle section and you can see what the loads do in longer barrel of a carbine / rifle .
Smaller charges of fast to medium burning powder are best for plinkers (bullseye to Unique ) . For hunting loads heavy charge of slow burners are best (H110 - 2400 - W296 ) .

If you don't have a printed loading manual ... it's not the worst thing to spend a few dollars on .
Good reloading Information is ... priceless !
Gary

 

[Ru4real]

Often, the best powder for rifle cartridges fills the case to the bottom of the bullet or maybe some compression. Not always, but often. Best loosely means groups, standard deviation, extreme velocity spreads, etc.

Same concept applies to pistol cartridges. Not always, but often. Shooting a 357? AA#9, 2400, CFEPistol, HS-6, etc tend to be most accurate for middle bullet weights.

Doing something special like punching holes in paper for score? Then other powders, like Bullseye are probably better, but it comes with a risk mentioned by @jmorris.

Think about making the best cartridge. It will often be best in pistol, rifle, short barrel, long barrel, etc. Not always, but often.

 

[trekker73]

OP, I only use pistol cartridges for hunting these days. Generally same loads work fine in pistol or lever action. I will add the caveat that at the extreme end of low loads for pistols you can get bullets stuck in the barrel of leveractions as the small charge and friction of the longer barrel can actually cause the bullet to stop. These are usually experimentally slow loads( like cowboy action shooters may use), not regular load manual loads. At the other end chasing the highest velocity with the heaviest/slowest powders, while folks say after 18-20" of barrel you dont get more velocity gains, fact is with some powders you can keep gaining until 24". We are talking the heaviest safe loads of stuff like 110 or 300MP in the strongest 92 actions. But those two extremes aside, just use any book load in pistol or lever action no probs.

I see there being 3-4 load levels in 357 and 44 mag

1. plinking or subsonic load levels. This is usually 3-5 grains of something( the fastest burning powders on the chart. Stuff like bullseye, win231, Clays, red dot, etc), often with lighter or cast bullets( heavy jacketed bullets will generate more pressure/need more powder due to the increased friction in the bore) These are fun plinking loads but in 44 in particular still have some thump at close range. I use light loads like this with 240 cast bullets for medium size pigs at night to 50 yards over baits where I need to keep noise down. The realities are you may get 80-150fps gain going from pistol barrel to lever actiion barrel length here as that light charge is burnt up pretty quickly, or no gain at all.

2. What I call my "9mm carbine or original 44-40 load" levels. I dont use these calibres its just a comparison to the equivalent speed in 357 or 44 mag lever actions. This is just into supersonic speeds, 1200-1350fps. (Roughly what 9mm carbine bullets do and the old 44-40 original velocities). This is fairly low blast, low recoil but suprisingly a good killer within its a range limitations. Powders for this can include the faster powders above with slightly heavier( load book safe) charges, and you can also start using loads with the slightly slower powders, what I call the mid-burners. These are the next level in slowness in the load chart, things like Unique, Universal, etc. Loads may be 6-8 grains or so( ballpark figure). You will find decentish gains going from pistol barrel to rifle barrel with these slower powders. Sometimes I have gotten 150fps, some powders the jump was a surpsinging 350fps.

3. Sub-magnum loads. These are basically a magnum load but just not top level. I dont use this often, but it is handy if you have certain powders on hand and want to use them up. This can include heavier charges of the mid burners above, or regular charges of powders slower on the chart like Blue Dot


4. Magnum loads. THese are your regular charges of magnum powders like 110, 2400, 300MP, lilgun.

Again just how I view it. The problem when you write a lengthy post on a subject you leave yourself open to context issues. Some fella will say waitaminit, you said Blue dot is sub magnum but dang thats my magnum powder, or why did you list Win 231 with bullseye when its probably closer to Universal(!). I'm just putting things down a beginner might find useful without bogging the post down with disclaimers and caveats. Hope it helps.

 

[Stefan A]

Thanks everyone!

 

[AJC1]

OP, I only use pistol cartridges for hunting these days. Generally same loads work fine in pistol or lever action. I will add the caveat that at the extreme end of low loads for pistols you can get bullets stuck in the barrel of leveractions as the small charge and friction of the longer barrel can actually cause the bullet to stop. These are usually experimentally slow loads( like cowboy action shooters may use), not regular load manual loads. At the other end chasing the highest velocity with the heaviest/slowest powders, while folks say after 18-20" of barrel you dont get more velocity gains, fact is with some powders you can keep gaining until 24". We are talking the heaviest safe loads of stuff like 110 or 300MP in the strongest 92 actions. But those two extremes aside, just use any book load in pistol or lever action no probs.

I see there being 3-4 load levels in 357 and 44 mag

1. plinking or subsonic load levels. This is usually 3-5 grains of something( the fastest burning powders on the chart. Stuff like bullseye, win231, Clays, red dot, etc), often with lighter or cast bullets( heavy jacketed bullets will generate more pressure/need more powder due to the increased friction in the bore) These are fun plinking loads but in 44 in particular still have some thump at close range. I use light loads like this with 240 cast bullets for medium size pigs at night to 50 yards over baits where I need to keep noise down. The realities are you may get 80-150fps gain going from pistol barrel to lever actiion barrel length here as that light charge is burnt up pretty quickly, or no gain at all.

2. What I call my "9mm carbine or original 44-40 load" levels. I dont use these calibres its just a comparison to the equivalent speed in 357 or 44 mag lever actions. This is just into supersonic speeds, 1200-1350fps. (Roughly what 9mm carbine bullets do and the old 44-40 original velocities). This is fairly low blast, low recoil but suprisingly a good killer within its a range limitations. Powders for this can include the faster powders above with slightly heavier( load book safe) charges, and you can also start using loads with the slightly slower powders, what I call the mid-burners. These are the next level in slowness in the load chart, things like Unique, Universal, etc. Loads may be 6-8 grains or so( ballpark figure). You will find decentish gains going from pistol barrel to rifle barrel with these slower powders. Sometimes I have gotten 150fps, some powders the jump was a surpsinging 350fps.

3. Sub-magnum loads. These are basically a magnum load but just not top level. I dont use this often, but it is handy if you have certain powders on hand and want to use them up. This can include heavier charges of the mid burners above, or regular charges of powders slower on the chart like Blue Dot


4. Magnum loads. THese are your regular charges of magnum powders like 110, 2400, 300MP, lilgun.

Again just how I view it. The problem when you write a lengthy post on a subject you leave yourself open to context issues. Some fella will say waitaminit, you said Blue dot is sub magnum but dang thats my magnum powder, or why did you list Win 231 with bullseye when its probably closer to Universal(!). I'm just putting things down a beginner might find useful without bogging the post down with disclaimers and caveats. Hope it helps.

I bet the easiest line to draw for real magnum loads are powders to slow for 38. That matches with your blue dot idea well. Then you get those weird loads that pop.up just to poke you in the eye. You matched a lot of what I use and expect, and anomalies always abound. Like what about......

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Usually takes me a full pound of a new powder loading my most favorite calibers and bullets to learn a powders personality. I burned up a quarter bottle of Competition just on failed experiments looking for a .38Spl 148gr HBWC load that was as good as the classic old 2.7gr of Bullseye. Finally settled on 2.5gr but it isn’t any better or worse than Bullseye. I guess it depends on how much you want to know about a powder and how willing you are to spend the time and money to know it.

 

[Random 8]

I shoot exactly this application..38 and. 357 loads used in a. 357 Taurus 3", a. 357 Taurus 6", a TC 10" and a Henry 20". Uses range from IHmsa silhouette to SD to casual plinker to deer loads. There is no easy answer here. I've found the Henry to eat almost anything with good accuracy. Obviously, a full house load of H110 will shine to optimize its performance, but it does fine with pick your fast burning powder and put a standard. 38 load with a cast bullet and a firm crimp out front and and have fun. Honestly, the rifle and the TC are the least of my worries. I optimize loads for the revolvers, and use the rifle to burn up random components. I do burn a lot of HP 38 for. 38 Spl level loads, and a lot of H6 for heavy. 38 and light. 357 cast loads. I've found both of these to work well across the revolvers and rifles with cast bullets. I'd look at those relative burn speeds for plinker ammo with cast bullets.

 

[N555]

My goal is to know which powder to choose among the choices. If there is data for 6 different powders, how do I know which one to choose? I figured that a cartridge used in a rifle vs. a pistol would play into the decision.

Kind of but not really.
For example my 44mag rifle and handgun full power ammo uses the same powder bit different weight bullets.
My plinking ammo uses the same bullet, but different powders for standard and quiet plinking.
I don't recommend wasting magnum cases on lower powerd plinking loads

 

[Walkalong]

Look at the same powders you would for your pistol, just understand that the "slowest" of them will take more advantage of the longer barrel than the "faster" of them.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Look at the same powders you would for your pistol, just understand that the "slowest" of them will take more advantage of the longer barrel than the "faster" of them.

I'll give you a recent example of the above that I ran into while developing a load to shot in competition...it just happens to have been in 9mm.

My 9mm load with a 124gr bullet usually uses N320, e3, or SportPistol...the latter two are supposed to be less expensive/more available versions of N320. I'm shooting them in either a SIG 320 or a S&W M&P9, both with barrels a bit shorter than 5". I was looking to load up for a Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) with a 16" barrel. Asking around, all the folks who normally loaded with Titegroup told me that they really had to increase their load to make Power Factor (125PF in pistols, 135PF in carbines).

Asking a non-Titegroup fanboi...and PCC builder...he told me that he was having good luck loading 115gr bullets over N320 (although he was in the process of switching over the Shooters World Clean Shot). It just happened that that his PCC load was the same as what I was using for my handgun...just loading different bullet weights.

Really the point was that slower powders are a better choice to use in both platforms and N320 is very versatile

 

[lordpaxman]

If there is data for 6 different powders, how do I know which one to choose?

Ask here! You’ll get at least that number plus about 4 times more you didn’t even know about. Sooner or later you’ll end up with a spreadsheet with hundreds of entries per caliber, organized by powder speed, bullet weight, gns loaded, COL and group size. Don’t ask how I know.
For pistol/PCC I try to choose a powder that’ll work across more than one caliber. Availability counts.
Faster powders for target loads, slower powders for hunting loads. Unless you shoot compensated.
The next level of metrics are subjective and only looked at once testing starts like smoke, recoil, cleanliness, etc. Best of luck.

 

[Bcwitt]

The best powder(s) to use is any in the bullet weight range that gives best velocity. W a 357 mag, you have quite a few options. Any listed data should work fine.