***CHP are NOT under orders to confiscate firearms

[artherd]

This is third party (message) but from a CHP OFFICER, good friend and shooting buddy of mine who is one of the 100 CA CHP officers in NO right now.


1) The CHP is under no orders to confiscate legally owned firearms, infact later that day they encountered houses full of guns and wished the residents well. They are not disarming people withought other extenuating circumstances.

2) The CHP is under orders to remove people from the area designated for MANDATORY evacuation. This is ostentiobly a legal act, authority to do so has been grated and the CHP is taking orders from the NO State Police who are under the Governor, who is under the direction of FEMA. They have been Federalized, and the feds may mandate an evac. It is not clear if they are infact FORCING people to leave, or entering and "STERNELY ADVISING" them that they are to leave.

3) Houses will be entered if the doorbell is answered or if the door is open. If the door is closed and knocks are not answered they are moving on

4) The issue of the old lady is still cloudy. However, HER DOOR WAS OPEN, so the CHP entered her house. We did see her sweep the cameraman with her revolver. It is not clear wether she pointed it at the cops or not, nor is it clear how in command of her faculties she was. In any event, she was NOT left defenseless, but evacuated. I do not know if she was arreasted or merely sent on her way, this is where the cell connection got spotty and dropped.




He was present and *IN* the videotaped incident with the old woman if you remember. To protect his identity I will not say more.

Hopefully more from him soon. Godspeed and stay safe buddy.

EDITs to clairify what is happening. MORE Edits, I do not know if they are forcing evictions or advising at this point.

 

[dasmi]

All the video I've seen seems to suggest otherwise, but I truly hope you are correct.

 

[Jim Diver]

I agree. From what video I saw, I do not buy it.

Unless there were there for a reason other than evacuating her, they could have defused the situation by just leaving.

So, why were they there? To evacuate her or something else? Not enough info is provided in your post to explain what we saw.

I would like your friend to come online here and explain what we saw.

 

[Derby FALs]

They'll get no sympathy from me. She repeatedly told them she didn't want them in her house.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

 

[artherd]

Unfortunately my friend is busy rescueing people. He has minimal cell phone battery and coverage only spotty at best in some areas. He's too busy saving lives to come on and placate a bunch of monday morning quarterbacks on the internet, let's get real here folks.

The CHP *are* under orders to evacuate people. They are knocking and if they answer, they are evacuated. They are also entering open doors (this lady had her door open.)

This lady grabed her revolver & knife when officers walked in her open door to evacuate her.

They are however NOT entering when the door is closed and goes unanswered. (remenber, this is just the 100person CHP team I have information on. We have video of others breaking down doors.)

That's all I have when his cell phoen went out.


Look, belive it or belive an edited jump-cut video that shows what appears to be an arreast. If you have ever been involved in an incident that was reported on the national level by media, you know how they can twist circumstances to look like almost anything.

EVACS and protective custody are one thing (I'm not thrilled with how it is being applied, but it is fully legal and may be an important disease control factor.) The CHP are doing this ONLY if your door is open or if you answer it.

Forced disarmament and abandonment is something completely different! This is NOT what the CHP are doing, nor are they under any orders to do so.

Again, I can only speak to what I have heard about this 100man contingient from someone who is part of it. NOPD, guard, etc. may be doing something completely different.

 

[Derby FALs]

My door can be wide open but it doesn't mean you're welcome across the threshold. I don't need the likes of them rescuing me.

 

[Coronach]

It hinges upon what brought them there, what got them through the threshold, and what they believe gave them the reason to take her into custody. The situation is further muddied by this 'state of emergency' order, and the question of what powers that grants the executive (if any).

The video I saw was edited, in that it started with the officers already in the house, and then there was some manner of edit, and then they are grappling with her. There's a lot left out.

I can think of multiple perfectly up-and-up scenarios that would lead to that encounter (most of them hinging upon decreased mental state). I can also think of a couple of not so nice ones as well.

It's worth nothing that everyone here is, as usual, going automatically with the worst-case scenarios.

Mike

 

[kbr80]

Video says otherwise. Old lady got thumped. She asked them, several times to leave if there were just doing welfare checks, why did they not leave. Their presence was the esclation needed that resluted in the above mentioned thumping of an old lady on national TV. Dont care if her door is open, knock, then asked permisson to enter, this is still america.

 

[Coronach]

My door can be wide open but it doesn't mean you're welcome across the threshold. I don't need the likes of them rescuing me.

Well, I'm guessing that they are being tasked with checking unsecured houses for sick and injured people. If so, they have an affirmative duty to proceed inside. Would this fly under normal circumstances? Probably not, absent other evidence of foul play/distress/wrongdoing. In this instance, however, it probably would.

Mike

 

[Publicola]

Artherd,
She was in her home. She told the officers to leave. They were talking to her for what seemed like more than a few seconds while she had the gun in view. (from my understanding they asked her to show them her guns when she told them she had one, but that's unsubstantiated). The only mistake the lady made was in not shooting the cop as he rushed her.

Let me be clear about this - a lady was attacked in her own home by cops who had been told to leave.

If a burglar broke in your grandmother's houe & she told him to leave, then he rushed her & hurt her in the process, then would you be wondering if maybe it was because she waved a gun at him?

It is no different that they were cops - foreign cops no less. (& yes; cali is foreign to La just as NY is foreign to Savannah) Every cop in that room acted horrendously even if by simply conding the others actions through inaction.

You're not really saying that an elderly lady deserved to be tackled by intruders are ya? I understand he's your buddy & all but c'mon Art - some things cannot & should not be justified. Disarming an elderly lady in her own home through force is one of them.

 

[kbr80]

Well, I'm guessing that they are being tasked with checking unsecured houses for sick and injured people. If so, they have an affirmative duty to proceed inside. Would this fly under normal circumstances? Probably not, absent other evidence of foul play/distress/wrongdoing. In this instance, however, it probably would.

I Agree, but its not right, IMO. Even if, in this situation, you can do this, once you are in a house, and the resident says get out, thats is, you leave.

 

[kbr80]

They were talking to her for what seemed like more than a few seconds while she had the gun in view.

And not holding it in a threatning manner. The cops had no business asking, if they did, if she had a gun. Her on the other hand should have said no if the asked to see it. An old women, tackled on national tv, does not bode well for the image of LEO's.

 

[artherd]

Once again, they are going house to house to house to enforce an MANDATORY evacuation order. I do not know if they are using force to do so, or simply asking people to come along.

Wether these guys are welcome in her home or not, they have statute authority to remove her. Persons who have failed to evacuate as of a week ago are all misdomenor offenders guys.

Right or wrong, that is the issue we need to be attacking.

And if there is an outbreak (or even a serious potential for one) of let's say WEST NILE VIRIUS, should we allow some dumb old lady to stay in her house, get infected and die, *AND* allow the rescureres to be exposed to her diseased remains?

It's a hell of a question, one I am not sure I have a good answer for. Especially when you remove the gun-grabbing aspect of it that is not occuring in this case.

All I can come up with is, vest the authority to COMPELL evacs with the CDC alone and exclusively. The slimey NO officals should not have that ability.

 

[Jim Diver]

They are knocking and if they answer, they are evacuated. .....

Wether these guys are welcome in her home or not, they have statute authority to remove her.

I disagree. Every lawyer type person I have seen interviewed says the police cannot for them to leave. Period.

Every news report I have read says there are no forced evacuations. So who's telling the truth?

Why evacuate her against her will? Her house appears to be intact. There is no flooding. She could defend herself against looters and criminals.

And if there is an outbreak (or even a serious potential for one) of let's say WEST NILE VIRIUS, should we allow some dumb old lady to stay in her house, get infected and die, *AND* allow the rescureres to be exposed to her diseased remains?

Yes. Cause it is her damned right to stay in her home. Your argument is a red herring. Cops and EMS/Fire deal with corpses all the time. They know how to protect themselves from disease. If she wants to die there then let her. It's her right.

 

[Coronach]

I disagree. Every lawyer type person I have seen interviewed says the police cannot force them to leave. Period.

That opinion seems to be at odds with the written law. Now, to be completely fair, there is a very valid question about whether or not that law will stand up in court. How does one find that out? By having a test case.

Well, oh goody. Looks like we have a whole mess of them, huh? On the plus side (and yes, I'm really digging for that silver lining), a lot of questions about what a government has the authority to do are going to be decided in court following the fallout from this mess.

The law seems poorly written, possibly (probably?) unconstitutional, the governor and the mayor don't seem to know what they have the authority to do, let alone what they want to do. This all adds up to a cluster.

Every news report I have read says there are no forced evacuations. So who's telling the truth?

I suspect that they were under the impression that she had diminished mental capacity upon contact with her, either due to senile dementia or, more likely, complications of dehydration. I'm not saying they were correct in that assessment, merely that this seems to be the angle they were pursuing. As such, I bet they were tasked with going door to door, talking and persuading people, and in this instance they thought they had one they would have to take into protective custody.

Truth be told? She didn't seem that with it, but I only watched the video once. Waving around a gun doesn't help that perception. Depending on what happened prior to the cameras rolling and in that unrecorded interval between talking and grappling (in my clip at least), they might be able to meet the burden of proof for protective custody due to compromised mental health. I dunno what that is in LA.

 

[swampsniper]

"And if there is an outbreak (or even a serious potential for one) of let's say WEST NILE VIRIUS, should we allow some dumb old lady to stay in her house, get infected and die".
=========================================

The alligators in my back yard test positive for west Nile. The point should be, if this dumb old man wants to die in his own house, leave me alone!
I've learned a lesson. If I get stuck in a NO situation, and hear jack boots on the porch, I will start pumping 12 guage slugs through the door. If you just want to talk, stand in the yard, and yell! :banghead:

 

[dustind]

ONLY if your door is open or if you answer it.

emphasis mine. I do not see how you can consider that a good thing, assuming I am interpreting your correctly.

I am curious how much if any gun grabbing is going on.

 

[50 Freak]

1) The CHP is under no orders to confiscate legally owned firearms, infact later that day they encountered houses full of guns and wished the residents well. They are not disarming people withought other extenuating circumstances.

2) The CHP is under orders to remove people from the area designated for MANDATORY evacuation. This is ostentiobly a legal act, authority to do so has been grated and the CHP is taking orders from the NO State Police who are under the Governor, who is under the direction of FEMA. They have been Federalized, and the feds may mandate an evac. It is not clear if they are infact FORCING people to leave, or entering and "STERNELY ADVISING" them that they are to leave.

3) Houses will be entered if the doorbell is answered or if the door is open. If the door is closed and knocks are not answered they are moving on

4) The issue of the old lady is still cloudy. However, HER DOOR WAS OPEN, so the CHP entered her house. We did see her sweep the cameraman with her revolver. It is not clear wether she pointed it at the cops or not, nor is it clear how in command of her faculties she was. In any event, she was NOT left defenseless, but evacuated. I do not know if she was arreasted or merely sent on her way, this is where the cell connection got spotty and dropped.

1) Since they were not under orders. Why did they take her gun away from her? Was it for fun?

2) Still no Marshal Law has been declared. And if forced evacuation had been declared, why have not the Army done so (they're federal). They still refuse to do so and say it is up to the local police to do so. I don't buy this. Didn't know FEMA can order a governor of a state to do anything.

Sounds like a very "gray" area the Gov and Mayor are doing. Wonder what the legal ramifications will be after all this is said and done. As to date, no official Marshal law has been announced. The NOPD are "STERNLY asking" people to evacuate. In my book, I'd "STERNLY" tell them to take a flying leap. If a legal marshal law was announced by the Gov. then that's a different story.

And if you remember. A day or two before this news report came out that bonehead Mayor had said it was okay to go home if you were in a "safe" area.

That old ladies neighborhood was dry as a whistle and if they were in her kitchen, obviously, her house wasn't destroyed. Not like she was sitting on a pile of rubble shooting her guns in the air.

3) Don't know about this rule, been watching TV and pretty much in all the news programs, I see the police kicking in doors, or using battering rams, or using chains tied to cars. They are doing a house to house search for "dead bodies".

4) Not clear if she was in command of her faculties???? She seemed perfectly fine when she said she didn't want to leave and told the police to leave her house. She was actually in the process of giving an interview to the news crew before getting tackled. Don't buy this excuse at all.

 

[kayak bum]

What, if anything, has the state done to actually provide these officers with law enforcement authority so far out of jurisdiction? A small point, but an important one. Has anyone bothered to swear these folks in as peace officers in Louisiana?

 

[Joejojoba111]

"kayak bum What, if anything, has the state done to actually provide these officers with law enforcement authority so far out of jurisdiction? A small point, but an important one. Has anyone bothered to swear these folks in as peace officers in Louisiana?"


Umm, FEMA is in complete control, have been from the very second the hurricane touched land/swamp. At that moment all conrol of every aspect was turned over to them, as determined at an earlier date.

AIUI they are accountable to Dept. Homeland Security, and so-on.


My gut tells me that you don't want to know what authority they're acting under, because it probably exists - now. 10 years ago probably not, but this is the new America.

 

[FPrice]

Mike,

It's worth nothing that everyone here is, as usual, going automatically with the worst-case scenarios.

If it wasn't for dwelling on "worst-case scenarios" many people on the internet would have nothing to do.

A small point, but an important one. Has anyone bothered to swear these folks in as peace officers in Louisiana?

Yes. Video from the same site that showed the old lady also showed the CHP being sworn in by (if I recall correctly) the chief of the LA HP in some sort of special status.

 

[farad]

The video I saw was edited, in that it started with the officers already in the house, and then there was some manner of edit, and then they are grappling with her. There's a lot left out.

It's worth nothing that everyone here is, as usual, going automatically with the worst-case scenarios.

I hope that mental security blanket is worth it.

 

[goalie]

Fact: It is a misdemeanor to refuse to obey the mandatory evacuation order.

Fact: Pointing a weapon at someone is using deadly force.

Fact: It is unlawful for the police and authorities to use deadly force because of a misdemeanor violation.

 

[50 Freak]

I wish I could find a site that had the full video. If you see the full thing, the old lady had the pistol and knife in one hand. She was holding the pistol on the top strap with a folded knife underneath. Her finger was not on the trigger. She was showing the camera (as at the time she was being interviewed) that she was armed and could take care of herself. The reason they were in the kitchen was she was showing them she had plenty of food and could take care of herself.

She was also telling the officers, "You're going to have to shoot me to get me out of here, I don't want you in here" You can hear the officers in the back ground saying. "We wouldn't shoot you. we don't want to hurt you". Then one officer tackles her.


"A police spokesman said Sunday that authorities will not forcibly remove the holdouts. Capt. Marlin Defillo said authorities will continue to go house-to-house informing residents that they are in violation of mandatory evacuation orders, "but we will not physically force them out of their homes."" http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/12/katrina.impact/index.html


"With up to 10,000 residents still refusing to leave, authorities were bracing for a showdown to enforce an order to clear the deluged city.

Sherry Landry, the city attorney, insisted that the evacuation would not come down to the use of force. "At this time force is not being used to evacuate those persons who are already in the city," she said.

"Rather, our officers and troops continue to strongly encourage, strongly encourage, those folks in the city that are not associated with the recovery effort to leave. We are not currently implementing forced evacuations.""
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050909/wl_afp/usweather_050909171820


I wish they would get their freaking stories straight.

 

[feedthehogs]

most of them hinging upon decreased mental state

But not in her circumstance.
While not a shrink, it was pretty clear from these common ears of what her wishes were. Get out and leave.

Yes the video was edited. But in whose favor?

The longer authority, in this case the CHP, irritates and antagonizes someone, the more likely something will happen.

The woman may have pointed the gun at them. But it was clear way before that that they were not welcomed in her home.


Sometimes I think irritation is a method to make something happen.
After all its much easier to justify shoulder tackling an old lady up against the wall if she pointed a knife or gun at you than if she didn't.

What ever happened to backing off and letting the situation cool down or just go away.

After all she wants to be on her own. If she dies then your clear of any wrong doing. End of story.

Forcing old people to leave their homes is traumatic.
When my grandfather died, my dad was selling the house and moving my grandmother in with us. She was still very mobile and did not want to leave and fought my dad.
My dad won and when the contract on her house was signed, she just gave up and died with no health problems at all.

I know the cops have a job to do. Sometimes its really miserable.
But somewhere along the line common sense has to prevail.