Church Security Advice?

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tuna

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Hi all, recently at our church we had a "non-incident" that still raised the question of security of our church in the case of disruptive people or possibly something more serious. I'm looking to see if anyone has any ideas to increase the security of the church during services.
A couple of caveats:
a) Small congregation
b) Not many involved in the shooting sports - increasing numbers but still not many real gunnies
c) CCW restrictive state - those that would carry have "hunting and target shooting" restrictions on the licenses
d) Many small children - hiding guns around not practical
e) Health issues of seniors - OC spray not practical but may be a good option.

I've been tasked to come up with some ideas and thought I'd ask here. The general direction I've been given to go in is to: Identify potential troublemakers, remove them quietly from the sanctuary, talk and see if they are or will be a problem in my opinion, remove them from the church if necessary.

I have been in the military for 15 years, I am not Rambo, SF, Delta Force, SEAL or any other super trooper. I'm looking for real advice on how to spot potential trouble, I'm not looking for ideas about sniper nests in the balcony. I'd also like the recommendations to be both non disruptive and simple for people with little or no real training.

I guess I'm asking for a lot of gain for a little work. But I'm trying to come up with a way for the ushers and others to be able to at least identify a threat without organizing a full scale Christian SWAT team.

Thanks in advance.
 
What sort of "threat" do you perceive needs to be addressed?

What is the potential for that threat actually being realized?
 
Check with other churches

I am a member of a so-called "Mega church" here in the Dallas area. Due to the size of our congregation, the high-profile, and the potential for random weirdos to materialize at any given service/event - we have an active (thought VERY quite and unobtrusive) security element at work.

I recomend you contact the various churches in your area and see what they are experincing and what measures they have taken.

Having a few cops in the congregation is about as effective a measure as you can have. PO's are generally well trainined in handling disturbances as well as various levels of violent behavior.
 
I think the main "threat" that we're focusing on is someone unstable that would want to disrupt the service. Violence level would probably be on the unarmed level, or at least a level less than a firearm.
Potential for actually seeing this threat? No actual threat, but we want to start being vigilant.

I was only asked about this last night. While I try to remain in at least condition yellow if not orange, I never really thought out what to do in church. Mainly I'm trying to brainstorm, and hoping for nuggets of info from members of the board.

Sorry if I'm not being specific, I'm not trying to be difficult. Once I come up with a half a plan, I'll repost and try to get you to shoot holes in it, I just need a starting point on thinking this out.
 
Whomever is pulling 'security' needs to have a vantage point over the rest of the congregation. I'd suggest electing very big deacons, and having them seated at the back of the church hall. Standing might not be a bad idea. Also, having someone outside or in the hall during service. Having a phone nearby for calling 911, and/or having all 'security' personnel armed with cellphones. Lastly, you might consider FRS radios to link your crew together.
 
I'm kind of in the same situation....although I do have a ccw and carry at church...small congregation of non-gunnies(although a bunch of hunters).I'd say talk to the Pastor first.Do you have ushers?Do they have a clue.I found the best ushers are ex-military or LEO's.LOts of times just having people paying attention can stop things before they start.As you're ex-military,they'll look to you for guidence(as they should)....
If the church is in a bad area,talk to local cops and see if they can increase patrols on service days...or if it's a real bad area,maybe they could actually post an officer in or outside the church.
If you look around the congregation you'll probably see a few people that will be good in an emergancy situation(vets,etc...)but probably alot more who will fold like a lawn chair once the crap starts to hit the fan.
Also be prepared for some poeple to be against the whole idea..these people are the ones who NEED protecting.
now I'm not an expert in any kind of tactics or anything like that,but I can and do have a clue about people and situations,and can listen to that"still small voice"......
my credeo is"you can't beat prayer......and a well placed 357 round.";)
 
Perhaps you could try radio communication with ear pieces. That would not disturb the congregation and would allow the ushers to effectively communicate. In our church we have about five percent of the congregation armed. If that's not an option for you then you may think about moving to less lethal technology. I wouldn't recommend attepting to apprehend (handcuff) a disruptive patron, however you might think about using a taser as a last resort rather than a firearm. Check one out here http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40252932

Finally, you can have periodic meetings with the ushers and review safety plans. Within these meetings you can go over removal of disruptive patrons, exit plans, and when to notify the authorities. Good luck and God bless.
 
Some of the churches in my area have armed retired LEO's who volunteer as deacons. During some high religious days they also hire off duty uniformed LEO's as additional security.

A nearby church had an EDP kill 2 worshipers with a candle holder. Another had the minister shot dead during a service.

Bad things can happen in chuch. Being prepared may help.
 
having persons with assigned security duties wear vests, or possibly corrections style penetration ressistant vests is a good idea, cut ressistant gloves are also a good idea as i am assuming that you want them to remove threats from the church without disruptive incidents, or dangerous gunplay in a "target rich environment". also considering designated persons as physical pointmen to initiate the contact, then have a couple of armed persons as a second echelon, keeping a distance until needed, if things are escalated, or an armed response is needed. this multilayered resopnse handles most edp's and non armed threats without introducing a firearm in the hands of a minimally trained person to a wrestling match where it's custody may be compromised.
most threats in this sort of group environment are going to be physical, ie hand to hand, and not gunfights. this approach also helps preserve the atmosphere of safety and worship, and avoid the armed camp feel that will upset many people.
the high speed low drag typs aren't always the folks that are best trained to handle a situation like this.
pat
 
A Greeting Staff is a great way to recognize a potential threat before it becomes a problem. I have seen this implemented in several churches and it works wonderfully. Find some regulars who enjoying chatting with others. Make some name tags for them (ex. Joe Smith – Greeting Staff) and station them near all entrances of the church and have them distribute bulletins/meet and greet everyone who walks through the door. After the initial greeting regular attendees and non-threats walk right in and find a seat. Anyone who is unknown to the person at the door or is seen as a possible threat is immediately introduced to another greeter who is there to talk to the person and give them a nice warm welcome to the church. Most people who are planning on committing some sort of a malicious act do not want to be greeted and they don’t want to talk to someone. Most likely they will either turn and leave immediately or act very weird and seriously uncomfortable (note: some people could just be nervous being in a new church). Each case will have to be handled individually and it is up to your church to decide where to go from this point. Hope it helps. Message me if you would like any clarification.
 
Lock the doors during the service, and have an usher or someone at the door to let in late arrivals? Have them look like a greeter, not "security" (this is church, after all, and you don't want to intimidate people into not coming). This would depend on what type locks you have, though. Or you could just have some sort of plan to be able to lock the interior doors quickly, if you have a large foyer.

Have someone watch the parking lot for vandals/etc., and maybe someone else wander around unused hallways in the back (walkie-talkies could be carried but might be overkill). You could do this on a rotating basis so nobody has to do it every week, just make sure that the people who do it aren't Secret Service wannabes. I can see it now, "Mall Ninja II: Spiritual SpecOps"...

Make sure you don't forget about the security of the people running the nursery/children's program, if your church has one. Have some sort of procedure in place to keep someone from walking in and walking out with somebody's kid...

If you have any law enforcement officers in your church, that would help in any sort of incident response, as long as they aren't stuck in the middle of a row somewhere.

Make sure there's a phone in the foyer or somewhere else that can be accessed quickly to call 911 if something happens.

Just some thoughts.
 
Lots of good ideas. The few cases I have read about recently involved people barging in the servive AFTER it started. Not even a moronic nut wants to get stuck in the middle of a church pew with 15 people on each side. Watch for people who insist on sitting on the end. Also don't forget your job is not to square off with him in the church, grab him and carry/drad him out. Spread your beefy types around if you have them. This type wants to be in control and also wants attention. Deny him both. It is sad we have to talk about this but these days......................

Kevin
 
Aren't churches one of the handful of places we CAN'T carry in MA? Even with an unrestricted license?
Click to expand...

There is only one state law I have been able to find which restricts where you may carry in Massachusetts and that is within schools and school property. There are some Federal restrictions also, but those relate to federal property.
 
Lots of great stuff here folks. Keep 'em coming! I'm jotting down all the stuff that sounds like it would work. The radios are a good thought, but not needed. We have a small congregation and a small building, so keeping an eye on the service covers pretty much all the entrances and allows keeping an eye on the children's area. The doors that I can't see from the main area do not have knobs on the outside, we'll just put into our checklist to check on the upstairs doors.

We have greeters that welcome people until the "meat" of the service starts, I like the idea of having the greeter hand off unknowns to me or my ushers. (like I said, we're a small congregation but I'm decent size, and my other usher looks like the guy from Braveheart) and we've a couple other good sized guys to recruit.

Thank you all so much for your help!
 
I am an usher at my church. Usually my post is "Greeter", I stand right by the door and shake paws as people come in. I AM one of the beefy types. Keep your eyes open, and your radar on. Every flock needs sheepdogs. Way to go for being proactive.
 
I agree that ushers are the first line of defense.

If you're concerned primarily about unstable guests, you basically need three things:

1. an usher who can identify the problem

2. a small group of people with martial arts or size advantages. (varsity wrestlers, Karate black belts, football players...)

Once the usher identifies the problem, he gets a message to the small group of prepared. Then, the small group of well prepared people can have an ambassador or two have a talk with the new guest. maybe the small group already includes a high-ranking member of the congregation who can do the talking, or maybe they need to have an untrained, but physically healthy, high-ranking adult who can do the talking while they do the glaring.

3. A working relationship with the local PD, and a small, secured, stash of pepper spray products and other less-lethal tools. If you begin to get the vibe that this could get REALLY ugly, you send a few members of the small group to the clerk's locked office, where they can place a phone call and grab some equipment.
 
It sounds like a bouncer at a high end club would be a good consultant.

Quiet, unobtrusive filtering and removal of disruptive "guests". I'm sure you could find a nice club and hire their "security specialist" for a quick consult and some training for your greeters/deacons.
 
I hope I'm not in violation of any THR rules here by linking to another forum, but this is a topic that gets a lot of discussion at Gabe Suarez's Warrior Talk Forums (yeah, I'm well aware of Gabe's history). If this is a violation, mods feel free to delete it.

Here are a couple of good threads to read over:

http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=5039

http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=1384

FWIW, I too am a greeter/usher at our church (as someone who bounced in bars for quite a few years, who can argue with my qualifications? :p ). When I was asked to do it, one of the questions I asked the elder in charge was "What kind of security detail do we have?" His blank look gave me my answer.
 
Your ushers need to be on board with this.

You need a core of ushers, greeters that are willing to be a part of this program. Sounds like your children's area is close to the service, I would have designated people break off and cover that area at the first sign of trouble. Condition yellow at all times. Greeters point out anyone they think may be a problem to the others. Perhaps some pepper spray for a couple designated ushers just in case. Being in Mass. if real trouble breaks out you can pretty much kiss your butts goodby as nobody will be armed but the BG. If there are any good courses on situational awareness available you should send the ushers to it.
 
At our church, we have sniper nests in the balcony and a full-scale Christian SWAT team.

Oh, wait...

-James
 
I would like to know more about the non-incident that inspired this.

Assuming a disruptive person (nut, malcontent, protestor), they are easy to spot. If you regularly watch the congregation, stuff that just doesn't look right will jump out at you. At the first sign of any disruption it is important to act quickly. The longer you let a person go, the bolder they get. Isolate the problem immediatly. This will usually involve physically removing them from the building. Take them outside, you want it to be clear that they are being ejected, not detained. If you cannot remove the problem, remove the congregation. You want space between the problem and the congregation.

The minister should be clear on the plan. His job is to retain the attention of the congregation and deny an audience to the actor. The sooner things return to normal, the better for all.

Call 911 early in the incident. One of the older ushers should be given this job.

Had an incident in the Catholic cathedral in Philly. A lady got up and started protesting for women priests. She was bodily picked up and removed by two of the largest seminarians I've ever seen. The problem was handled quickly and with minimum disruption.
 
MikeIsaj, the "Nonincident" was simply that. A person came in, and for whatever reason this person just raised everyone's hackles and created an uneasy feeling in several of the parishoners. This person did not really do anything to cause alarm, and if our full scale "Christian Commando" team was up and running, we wouldn't have really done anything excpet kept an eye out, which many of us did anyway.

The uneasy feeling, with the rise in attacks on churches, synagogues (sp) and the like just made us start talking about it. Talking about it has led to thinking of a way to make everyone safer, which leads me here looking for advice.

It is great that something that never occurred has given us pause to think of ways to prevent whatever could happen, and hopefully never does. It is also sort of scary that bringing up this topic leads to many posters saying "what we do is..." Too bad I'm not the first one to feel the need try to secure a house of worship, but I'm glad that others have been thinking of this first so that I can pick your brains, instead of relying on my own.:confused:
 
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