Church shooting in LA

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Lennyjoe

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196369,00.html

La. Church Shooting Leaves Four Dead
Sunday, May 21, 2006

BATON ROUGE, La. — Louisiana State Police were on the hunt for a man who fled the scene of a church shooting in Baton Rouge, La., that left four dead on Sunday, FOX News has learned.

The shooting occurred just before 11 a.m. EDT after a gunman entered the Ministries of Jesus Christ Church on Dallas Street in north Baton Rouge. The suspect, identified as 25-year-old Anthony Bell, reportedly abducted his wife and child in a tan Chevy Malibu, possibly a rental vehicle. Two of his other children were recovered at his wife's home.

Bell is considered armed and dangerous, police said.

State police confirmed that four people were killed in the shooting. At least one other may have been injured.

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I don't know what to say other than never let your guard down. Even in the fathers house!
 
He's been captured !... Does your state permit you to carry in a church ??
 
According to http://www.packing.org/state/louisiana/#stateoff_limits
Any church, synagogue, mosque or similar place
of worship; is off limits for carry.

Its tragic that things like this have to happen at all but perhaps things like this will help wake people up to the idea that just because you're in a school or church doesn't mean you're shielded from the misdeeds of the evil.
 
Gun-free zones don't work? Quick, alert the press... :rolleyes:

(sarcasm aimed purely at the anti's, not you guys)
 
We had churches as a no no here in Texas for a while.

Then we had one of these wack jobs shoot up a church and that all changed.

Nothing but a damn shame that it takes this to open peoples eyes.

Of all the places you'd think a wack job might decide to open fire, a church should be high on the list.

Prayers for the victims.
 
Incidents such as these are why I carry in church in Georgia despite the law. It is likely that nothing like that will ever happen in my church, but if it did I would feel awfully stupid having to stand there and watch people (maybe me!) die.

:cuss:
 
Incidents such as these are why I carry in [insert off-limits place here] in Georgia despite the law.

+1

I'd love to get the congress/senate members to spend one day on a little illustrative exercise:

For one day, the lawmakers would treat their cell-phones like my gun. They'd have to go through figuring out where they could and couldn't take their cellphone...and what to do with it when they had to go somewhere 'off-limits'. It'd be great to be able to issue constant little reminders of the threat of prosecution hanging around every corner...along with the vague language of our law which doesn't even really make clear exactly *where* is off-limits in a lot of cases.
 
It reminds me a bit of the St James Church massacre in Kenilworth, Cape Town, South Africa (I lived a few miles away at the time) - with one slight difference.

From Wikipedia: "During the Sunday evening service on 25 July 1993, a group of APLA cadres attacked the St James Church in Kenilworth. Using grenades and AK-47s, they killed 11 members of the congregation and wounded 58. A single churchgoer, Charl van Wyk, managed to return fire, wounding one of the attackers, and the attackers fled."

Crimes that occur in gun-free zones are a mere preview of what our entire society could be like if we ever lose the right to bear arms.
 
AndyC,

Larry Pratt of GOA has interviewed Charl Van Wyk several times on "Live Fire".
His first interview was on the SA church shooting. You should be able to find them in the archives.

Another church shooting with divine intervention and legions of angels preventing same conspicuously missing.

In Glock We Trust.
 
I can't locate the article right now, but IIRC, the St. Stephen's AME church in Toldeo, OH had an incident, sometime in Jan. 2005.

Couple of armed Bad Guys came in, and held 2 CHILDREN hostage while demanding money and valuables from the Congregation. I don't recall how much money/jewelry/etc the Bad Guys took, but that has really stuck in my mind...No one was killed, but an ARMED ROBBERY IN CHURCH!

Evil is everywhere. You are not safe even in God's House.
 
In recent years, it has become apparant that "God's House" is only safe if the occupants possess superior firepower to those who would attack those within.

Biker
 
Biker said:
In recent years, it has become apparant that "God's House" is only safe if the occupants possess superior firepower to those who would attack those within.

I asked my preacher once if he thought it was OK that I carried in church.

His response was "It's only OK if you will sit in the back where you can see the door"......
 
Let's see:


Gun free zone (i.e. "victim rich environment") didn't work.

Restraining Order (i.e. "worthless piece of paper") didn't work.

Hmmmmmmm.

Guess that I am right in packing.
 
Man kills five in attack in chruch

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2843551.html

By MARK F. BONNER AND DAMIANE RICKS
Advocate staff writer
Published: May 22, 2006

Police Chief Jeff LeDuff carries an infant Sunday at the Ardenwood Park Apartments, where the child was taken after a man opened fire at The Ministry of Jesus Christ church, fatally wounding four people before abducting the boy’s mother, whom the assailant shot to death at the apartment complex, authorities said.

Five relatives are dead after a 25-year-old gunman burst into a Sunday morning church service in north Baton Rouge, shooting several people before abducting his estranged wife and three children.

More than two hours later, the man drove to a nearby apartment complex and executed his wife, who was riding in the passenger seat of a getaway car, by shooting her in the head, a police affidavit says.

Baton Rouge Police found the assailant standing outside the vehicle and took him into custody without incident.

None of the children abducted with the woman were injured, police said.

Those killed, all of whom were related, were Leonard Howard, 78; his wife, 72-year-old Gloria Howard, both of 3133 Elgin St.; Dolores McGrew, 68, 3575 Donaldson Drive; Darlene Mills, 47, 6515 Hanks Drive; and the suspect’s wife, Erica Bell, 24, 2950 Elgin St., police said.

Police did not indicate how the victims were related.

The pastor of the church, 53-year-old Claudia Brown, who is the mother of Erica Bell, was in critical condition and was still in the hospital late Sunday after undergoing surgery.

Brown identified her attacker as her son-in-law Anthony Bell, 6840 Lacey Drive, who was later booked into Parish Prison on five counts of first-degree murder, one count attempted first-degree murder and one count second-degree kidnapping.

“This man, for whatever reason, woke up this morning and decided he was going to go on a rampage,” Police Chief Jeff LeDuff said.

“This will become one of the worst days in our city’s history. We will reel from this for a long time.”

The shooting spree began about 10 a.m. as morning service at The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church, located at 1935 Dallas Drive in a commercial business park, was wrapping up, said police spokesman Sgt. Charles Armstrong.

As worshippers faced the altar, Bell allegedly barreled into the small sanctuary and sprayed it with gunfire — shooting five, three of whom died at the church — before grabbing his wife and three children.

Two of the victims — Darlene Mills and Claudia Brown — were taken to area hospitals. Mills died at Baton Rouge General Medical Center-Mid City, Armstrong said.

At 10:30 a.m., police announced that two of Erica Bell’s older children had been recovered without injury from an Elgin Street residence about a mile away from the church.

For more than two hours Sunday, police had no idea where Anthony Bell was or the conditions of his hostages and asked the public for assistance in locating him as they scoured his last known addresses.

Housed in a multibusiness warehouse, the church shares wall space with a guitar workshop, but by noon the scene of the slayings was quiet, with only police and reporters milling about.

All that changed about 12:30 p.m., when police cruisers, reacting to a 911 phone call about shots fired from the nearby Ardenwood Park Apartments, peeled out of the warehouse district toward the complex.

Arriving at 650 N. Ardenwood Drive, about 1 mile from the church, LeDuff could be seen cradling an uninjured infant child, who was later identified as the last of the abducted children.

As dozens of residents looked on and rushed toward the front of the complex, police quickly cordoned off the scene with yellow police tape.

It was later revealed that police had arrested Anthony Bell and recovered the infant before discovering the body of Erica Bell inside a champagne-colored Nissan Maxima.

As the East Baton Rouge Parish Coroner’s Office prepared to remove Erica Bell’s body from the vehicle, LeDuff held an impromptu news conference in the heart of the apartment complex.

“This guy does not realize what he’s done — not only to a family, but to an entire community,” LeDuff said.

Detectives were working two murder scenes as LeDuff explained how police apprehended Bell in the sweltering parking lot.

When police arrived at the apartment complex, Anthony Bell was standing unarmed in the parking lot, crying as he held the infant boy, police said.

Officers were able to recover the child from Bell before arresting him without struggle.

Police later revealed that Anthony Bell had made the 911 call to police, reporting his wife committed suicide.

According to the affidavit, detectives found the crime scene was inconsistent with Bell’s statements and arrested and booked him for killing his wife.

Hours after his arrest, police detectives escorted a shirtless and handcuffed Bell out of the First District Headquarters annex on Plank Road to an awaiting car bound for Parish Prison. Bell said nothing to reporters and photographers, but stared defiantly at them before climbing into the car.

At press time, police were still investigating the incident but could not establish a motive for the shootings.

According to Clerk of Court records, Erica Bell filed for a temporary restraining order against Anthony Bell on Dec. 16, 2005, citing family violence. On Jan. 3, 2006, however, the restraining order was dismissed at Erica Bell’s request.

Many family members of Leonard and Gloria Howard gathered Sunday evening at their residence on Elgin Street. Irwin Howard, one of the victims’ sons, declined to comment on the shooting.

LeDuff said Bell’s children are now in the custody of child services.

Armstrong said detectives do not have any idea why Anthony Bell chose to come to the apartment complex because the suspect had never lived there.

Police do not have evidence that Anthony Bell had an address at the apartments.

Sunday’s incident is an eerie echo of another church shooting seven years ago in Ascension Parish.

In that case, Shon Miller Sr. shot and killed his mother-in-law, Mildred Vessel, 53, as she sat in her van in front of her Coon Trap Road home. He then burst into the New St. John Fellowship Church in Gonzales during Wednesday evening services on March 10, 1999. Opening fire on the congregants, he killed his wife, Carla Vessel Miller, 25; their son, Shon Jr., 2; and Vanario “Bubba” Jackson, 19, and wounded four other people. Carla Miller had earlier told her husband she intended to seek a divorce because he beat her, punctured the tires on her car and burned her mobile home, according to news accounts.

Shon Miller Sr., who was paralyzed from the waist down when he was accidentally shot by a sheriff’s deputy during his capture, was later sentenced to death after a jury convicted him on four counts of first-degree murder.
 
Wow... just another nutcase that belongs in prison. Good thing they got him.

I have to comment on one thing though; "Bell allegedly barreled into the small sanctuary and sprayed it with gunfire". Funny how he "sprayed" "gunfire" in a "small sanctuary" and only hit relatives. Something tells me he did NOT "spray" and this is just another case of the news making a sensation out of a tradgedy.

I don't even want to get into how cases like this affect all gun owners.

Terrible thing that happened, all the way around.

-Dev
 
This waste of humity is a pathetic human being to do this inside a house of worship. Many law abiding CCW holders (myself included) leave their gun in the car when they enter church out of respect for the location. This just goes to show you that criminals who want to do people harm don't care about rules or laws, they don't respect the rights of others, and they don't even care about the generally accepted social values. All they care about is how their actions will best serve themselves. It is rediculous to think that newly enacting laws and bans would be respected and followed by someone that doesn't respect a house of worship.
 
If this had happened in Virginia, the congregation would have been sitting ducks. A church is one of the places we aren't allowed to carry. That's stupid. This is not the first shootout in a church and it won't be the last. It has been proven time and again that bad guys do bad stuff in churches. We should be able to protect ourselves in a church.
 
And to think that most people would think my wife and I were paranoid if they knew we both carried at church. Thank goodness the CCW laws here in Texas allow us to do so. It's sad but true, but there is no "safe place" anymore. All it takes is one nutjob whose wife left him (I'm sure with good reason) to end and ruin so many lives. The really sad thing is that his kids will probably end up being raised by the state, so they have a disproportianate chance of ending up in juvi or prison one day. What a sad situation.
 
Like Virginia, my state, Arkansas, prohibits concealed carry in churches. I was driving home from church, Sunday night, when I heard a report about this on the radio (though I had read about earlier in the day on the internet). I turned to my wife, and said something like "See, that's what's stupid about prohibiting concealed carry in churches. It doesn't stop the BG from coming in with a gun, but it stops any GG's from being able to intervene and maybe save a life or to."

She's still got a lot of anti-gun biases, and this gave us an opportunity to talk some about guns. I told her that some prohibitions are okay with me: guns and alcohol don't mix, so prohibiting them from bars makes sense; prohibiting concealed carry in police stations is okay with me, because there's plenty of other people with their with guns if a BG goes berserk.

As we talked, she came up with a pretty good observation: if it is a place where there's a good reason against concealed carry, then the place in question should probably have a metal detector to screen people before entering. I'm sure folks wouldn't be happy to be screened entering bars, but I think her point was that we shouldn't depend on laws alone to decide where guns are carried or not carried, because that's not going to stop the BG's. We already see this kind of screening in many places (courthouses and various govt facilities). I also took her point as a kind of argumentum ad absurdum against prohibiting concealed carry in church.

Without getting too far off topic, I don't harp on my wife about her anti-gun biases, but I do use opportunities like this to dialog with her. I think it may be working. We were watching Mummy II (or whatever is the real title) the other night with Rachel Weisz. Lot's of gun action in it and at one point the DH character is showing the Rachel Weisz character how to use a particular gun. I hear her, over the dialog, say something like "You need to get a gun I can shoot." (She's got muscular distrophy, and cannot handle the trigger pull of my handguns. And she'd probably recoil at the recoil. But I'm definitely gonna look around for something in .22 with a trigger pull she can manage!)

Back on topic, if I could carry in church, I would. I preach for a small church, and we have several LEO's in the membership. I feel better when they are on duty, and drop in for a service, because they are carrying. I'd feel even better if I was carrying, though, and didn't have to leave my sidearm in the car.
 
People put WAY to much faith in metal detectors.

Let them get out of cal, or not maintained they might as well turn them off as they will be useless.
 
Many law abiding CCW holders (myself included) leave their gun in the car when they enter church out of respect for the location.

Interesting you would put it that way.

I asked my preacher what he thought about carrying in church and all he said was "Sit in the back where you can see the door".

Respect for the location means keeping it a safe place as best you can. There is plenty of Biblical evidence to support defending yourself and others from attacks in church or anywhere. That "turn the other cheek" business was meant only for insults, not violence.

If it's legal where you live, carry in church.
 
eople put WAY to much faith in metal detectors.
I don't dispute this. I saw it as an argument for showing how ridiculous it is to think that a simple law against carrying in a particular location is going to mean anything. If the people writing in these exceptions to where we can carry were required to also insist that the locations install metal detectors, I would like to think they would think twice before doing so. I cannot see them requiring metal detectors for people going to church. So why are they preventing concealed carry in church?
Interesting you would put it that way.
+1 TexasSIGman.

I'm a preacher, and I don't understand the ban against carrying in church. Being in a church changes nothing about what's right or wrong. If it is wrong to cuss or fornicate, it don't matter where you do it. If it is right to carry outside of church, it is just as right to carry inside. I suspect that the prohibitions against carry in church were concessions to GFW legislators to get carry of any kind passed. In other words, the exception was not for good reason, or principled. It certainly makes no sense to me.
 
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