Cimarron “Pride of the Plains”

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BigBore44

BigBore44

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Hey Guys,
I am curious about this rifle.
https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pride-of-the-plains-sharps-rifle-45-70-30-oct-barrel.html
I’m specifically asking people who happen to own one. But knowledge from those who know anything about them is also appreciated. What are your likes, dislikes, quality, things you would change, their accuracy, favorite load, distance you’ve shot one, what load level (trapdoor or higher) can you shoot out of them, etc. I will be acquiring one soon and want to know what those who own one think about them.

Thank you for all your input.
 
Depends on whether it's made for them by Pedersoli or Chiappa. The Pedersoli will be the better quality rifle, altho their chambers tend to be a bit generous. The sights are junk, and won't serve well for much of anything other than busting paper plates at 100 yds. So might want to budget enough extra to get a set of Baldwin or MVA sights front and rear. Most likely has a 1-18 twist barrel so bullets up to 535 gr will work, altho even when shooting to 1000 yds, the saeco 645 bullet or the 525 gr money bullet from Buffalo Arms will work well when cast from 20-1 or better yet 16-1 alloy. Trap door level loads will take out any animal on the continent if smokeless is your thing. Black powder is a much better choice for pure accuracy and fun.
All in all, for the money they want for that rifle, I'ld surely give hard thoughts to a Shiloh or C Sharps , that way if you decide it's not your cup of tea and want to sell the rifle you won't loose 1/3 or more of your purchase price.
 
Don McDowell said:
Depends on whether it's made for them by Pedersoli or Chiappa. The Pedersoli will be the better quality rifle, altho their chambers tend to be a bit generous. The sights are junk, and won't serve well for much of anything other than busting paper plates at 100 yds. So might want to budget enough extra to get a set of Baldwin or MVA sights front and rear. Most likely has a 1-18 twist barrel so bullets up to 535 gr will work, altho even when shooting to 1000 yds, the saeco 645 bullet or the 525 gr money bullet from Buffalo Arms will work well when cast from 20-1 or better yet 16-1 alloy. Trap door level loads will take out any animal on the continent if smokeless is your thing. Black powder is a much better choice for pure accuracy and fun.
All in all, for the money they want for that rifle, I'ld surely give hard thoughts to a Shiloh or C Sharps , that way if you decide it's not your cup of tea and want to sell the rifle you won't loose 1/3 or more of your purchase price.
Click to expand...
My understanding is it’s a Pedersoli. What is wrong with the sights? I don’t know much about them except they’re Creedmoor. Are those bad? I guess I’m asking you to define “junk”. As for bullets, I don’t cast. But I have plenty of 405gr cast bullets from MBC and Lasercast. Is there any reason I cannot or shouldn’t use those for longer range 300-500yd shooting? Do I need a lower brinnel hardness?

This isn’t a gun I have an option on. It’s being gifted to me.
 
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You’ll love it! I’ve had three Pedersoli 45-70 Sharps. The Quigley, the lightweight target/hunter and my current one is the http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc...PORTING-RIFLE-45-70-32-Pedersoli-127p1142.htm
There’s nothing wrong the sights on these rifles but certainly there are awesome optics available whether they be high quality tang sights or Malcomb scopes. Hand load with black powder using various boolits until you find what satisfies you. Now you need a canvas cartridge belt, drop tube, blow tube............................
I bet this will be one your most prized rifles.
 
The stock barrel sights are just fine out to 100 or so yards. This rifle shows a vernier sight which will be needed for anything much farther. If your not familiar with vernier sights your in for a learning curve.
I do not own this rifle, I have a Shiloh Sharps 1874 Long Range Express, 32 inch barrel in 45-70. When I got vernier sights, I got Sharps #107 from Montana Vintage Arms for my rifle. Just like my Armalite AR10, when I wanted a double set trigger. I do reload and use the modern rifle reloading tables. 405 grain bullets work well for me they have 3 lube bands on them. Sorry I do not remember the power type or measure. I do not shoot black power in mine. Every time I go to the range the Shiloh is a show stopper. I keep some .305 grain rounds for the lookers. Best I ever did was 1800 meters shot 20 times and hit once, silhouette target. Light rays from the sun effect the bullet at that range. (humor)
I like long distance shooting, solid hits are more in the 1000 meter range. Wind effects shooting here abouts, Usually a cross wind where I shoot. Reply here and I will open up the book and find what Iast loaded. The guys at the range hate it when I ask for the long range section to be opened. Really slows things down for everyone.
 
Oh wow. This is going to be a learning experience. I will have to google search “drop tube and blow tube”.

What sights would you all recommend? I’m not sure how the sights that are on it are only good for 100 yards. But I also openly admit that I don’t know.

I’ve searched and searched for reviews and no one had anything but praise for this gun. But again, I don’t know what or who to believe. Reviews can be faked.
 
Just shoot it as is and see what you think. Might be good to go. Then you can see how it shoots and upgrade it as needed. It’s easy to spend tons of money on these fun rifles. Almost addictive.
 
Jimster said:
Just shoot it as is and see what you think. Might be good to go. Then you can see how it shoots and upgrade it as needed. It’s easy to spend tons of money on these fun rifles. Almost addictive.
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I will shoot it stock to start out. But let’s say I don’t like the sights. What would you recommend? I was thinking drill and tap and install a Vortex Viper or Leupold XV-II. Ok. Maybe not. Are the ones Don recommended good sights? What makes them better?
 
The sights recommended by the above posters are period correct for the rifle and necessary to take advantage of the long range potential of the rifle. Just my opinion, but I would not put a modern scope on a vintage replica.
 
I like authentic “period correct” sights on these 1870s replica single shot beauties. I’ve tried the long brass tube telescopic sight but I most enjoy using the flip up tang sight with the adjustable aperture. Pedersoli makes a functional cheap version but there are super high quality tang sights for hundreds of dollars. I’ve never used the high dollar sights as I only punch paper at 200 yards. That’s what makes me happy. You may want more out of it so do a net search on the different offerings and see what’s out there.
It’s a great cartridge to reload as well. Enjoy.
 
Coyote3855 said:
The sights recommended by the above posters are period correct for the rifle and necessary to take advantage of the long range potential of the rifle. Just my opinion, but I would not put a modern scope on a vintage replica.
Click to expand...
Not in a million years. It was a joke. But I’m definitely looking forward to this endeavor.
 
Jimster said:
I like authentic “period correct” sights on these 1870s replica single shot beauties. I’ve tried the long brass tube telescopic sight but I most enjoy using the flip up tang sight with the adjustable aperture. Pedersoli makes a functional cheap version but there are super high quality tang sights for hundreds of dollars. I’ve never used the high dollar sights as I only punch paper at 200 yards. That’s what makes me happy. You may want more out of it so do a net search on the different offerings and see what’s out there.
It’s a great cartridge to reload as well. Enjoy.
Click to expand...
Man you aren’t kidding about the cost. I just looked and saw them up to $600. And they have all kinds of options. Good thing I have unlimited data. I’m going to be doing some serious reading and YouTube’ing.
 
BigBore44 said:
My understanding is it’s a Pedersoli. What is wrong with the sights? I don’t know much about them except they’re Creedmoor. Are those bad? I guess I’m asking you to define “junk”. As for bullets, I don’t cast. But I have plenty of 405gr cast bullets from MBC and Lasercast. Is there any reason I cannot or shouldn’t use those for longer range 300-500yd shooting? Do I need a lower brinnel hardness?

This isn’t a gun I have an option on. It’s being gifted to me.
Click to expand...

Ok those vernier sights that the picture shows on the rifle, are just poor quality. They may or may not return to the same position after every shot ,some have even been known to shatter like glass if bumped. Even the slightest fore or aft movement can throw the succeeding shot low or high. The there's the problem of how well they may or may not fit on the base of the staff, or how well they stay true veritcly as the windage is adjusted. If the sight staff doesn't stay true as the windage and elevation are adjusted you will be ready to tear your hair out as adjustment is needed due to wind , mirage etc. The vast majority of us that shoot competition use MVA, Baldwin, Hoke and a few Kelly. My favored combo is MVA soule sight on the rear with a Baldwin front sight.
Whether or not your rifle will shoot a 405 gr bullet well is going to depend on what the rifle and the target tells you. The vast majority of 18 twist rifles will not shoot the 405 gr bullets as well as the 480-535 gr bullet.
As to the hardness of the bullet anything softer than 20-1 doesn't perform as well usually as the harder bullets. Take a lesson from history here, in that the government specification for their new 45 cartridge was for a bullet of 16-1 alloy.
If you decide to shoot black powder loads I would suggest 70 gr. Olde Eynsford 2f , and .030 fiber wads. OE powder is also showing a deep preference for RP 9 1/2 primers. If you're looking for serious accuracy, you'll by pass the blow tube route, and wipe between shots. Wiping can be as simple as running one or two damp patches down the bore on either a nylon brush or a jag.
Drop tube, is ok, but you'll likely end up compressing the powder to allow the bullet to seat without deforming the nose anyway, so just slow pour thru one of the powder funnels that uses a 4 inch tube.
Pedersoli is definitely the way to go if the rifle must be one of the imported rifles, but in the bpcr world they are seldom seen in the top finishers of many matches, unless they've been worked on pretty heavily, usually rebarreled and chambered, or the barrel set back and rechambered.
 
Don McDowell said:
Ok those vernier sights that the picture shows on the rifle, are just poor quality. They may or may not return to the same position after every shot ,some have even been known to shatter like glass if bumped. Even the slightest fore or aft movement can throw the succeeding shot low or high. The there's the problem of how well they may or may not fit on the base of the staff, or how well they stay true veritcly as the windage is adjusted. If the sight staff doesn't stay true as the windage and elevation are adjusted you will be ready to tear your hair out as adjustment is needed due to wind , mirage etc. The vast majority of us that shoot competition use MVA, Baldwin, Hoke and a few Kelly. My favored combo is MVA soule sight on the rear with a Baldwin front sight.
Whether or not your rifle will shoot a 405 gr bullet well is going to depend on what the rifle and the target tells you. The vast majority of 18 twist rifles will not shoot the 405 gr bullets as well as the 480-535 gr bullet.
As to the hardness of the bullet anything softer than 20-1 doesn't perform as well usually as the harder bullets. Take a lesson from history here, in that the government specification for their new 45 cartridge was for a bullet of 16-1 alloy.
If you decide to shoot black powder loads I would suggest 70 gr. Olde Eynsford 2f , and .030 fiber wads. OE powder is also showing a deep preference for RP 9 1/2 primers. If you're looking for serious accuracy, you'll by pass the blow tube route, and wipe between shots. Wiping can be as simple as running one or two damp patches down the bore on either a nylon brush or a jag.
Drop tube, is ok, but you'll likely end up compressing the powder to allow the bullet to seat without deforming the nose anyway, so just slow pour thru one of the powder funnels that uses a 4 inch tube.
Pedersoli is definitely the way to go if the rifle must be one of the imported rifles, but in the bpcr world they are seldom seen in the top finishers of many matches, unless they've been worked on pretty heavily, usually rebarreled and chambered, or the barrel set back and rechambered.
Click to expand...
Umm.... You ever have one of those moments where you think to yourself “Self, you thought you knew a pretty fair amount about firearms.... But you just got into something you know literally nothing about.”? If not, you’re lucky. Because that’s where I’m at right now. It’s a little intimidating. Luckily I turn intimidation into a challenge and quest for knowledge. So I’m going to have to do some research. I feel like every question I have right now is sub-par. But believe me, I will learn. I have seen some of your posts over at castboolits, I’ll research there as well.

I honestly don’t intend to shoot competitions with this rifle. Not right now anyways. Sounds like with how little I know about these sights and loads, I’d have better luck with a good slingshot until I figure this out.

Edit to add: If you take me out of the equation, what kind of accuracy are these rifles capable of with the right load? I’m used to sub MOA from my handloads in all my other CF rifles. Even my 444 and 45-70 JM Marlins. I’m thinking I probably shouldn’t expect that from this rifle.
 
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Take any body out of the equation, and if you can consistently shoot 2 moa or less, you're doing well. The submoa stuff can happen once in a while, but there are so many things that will affect these big of fat slow bullets that wouldn't even make a smokeless high-power round blink, that'll make these bullets puke their guts out.
Loading bp rounds isn't the big mystery some make it sound. The most important thing is keeping on top of the fouling control, poor or improper fouling control has probably messed up more good loads than you can imagine.
For just casual and fun shooting it's really hard to beat the barrel sights and a good blade front. You may find that taking a fine needle file or hack saw blade to the rear sight notch, and a bit of judicious filing on the front blade to square up the edges helps a great deal.
Have fun with it, but keep in mind these rifles are sort of like Lay's potato chips, you can't have just one. :)
 
Seems that opinions about the Pedersoli Sharps are divided over on the ASSRA Forum.

IMO Pedersoli and Shiloh compare thusly: Accuracy is equal; Pedersoli gives up nothing to anyone in this area. Action design gives Pedersoli a slight edge due to better adjustments. Wood-to-metal fit is much better with the Shiloh. Barrel octagon flats on the Pedersoli are not very flat and have rounded edges, really a very poor appearance in some cases. Reliability is approximately equal, both will break lever springs and firing pins occasionally. Service is a top priority with Shiloh but is restricted to their location while Pedersoli service is somewhat more widely available. The-most-accuracy-for-the-money is also no contest but Pedersoli wins that one hands down!

Then you have,

When I go to a competition, I almost never see one in the winner's circle. It seems the only folks that shoot them in competition are either content to always suck, or are either saving their money for a Shiloh/CPA/C.Sharps, or have it on order. We run a BPCR range with monthly matches as well as I shoot in numerous other monthly, state, regional, and national matches so I get to see and handle a lot of different and unique guns. Pedersoli's make ok stepping stones, but I would rather just start with a good gun.


 
Crawdad1 said:
Seems that opinions about the Pedersoli Sharps are divided over on the ASSRA Forum.

IMO Pedersoli and Shiloh compare thusly: Accuracy is equal; Pedersoli gives up nothing to anyone in this area. Action design gives Pedersoli a slight edge due to better adjustments. Wood-to-metal fit is much better with the Shiloh. Barrel octagon flats on the Pedersoli are not very flat and have rounded edges, really a very poor appearance in some cases. Reliability is approximately equal, both will break lever springs and firing pins occasionally. Service is a top priority with Shiloh but is restricted to their location while Pedersoli service is somewhat more widely available. The-most-accuracy-for-the-money is also no contest but Pedersoli wins that one hands down!

Then you have,

When I go to a competition, I almost never see one in the winner's circle. It seems the only folks that shoot them in competition are either content to always suck, or are either saving their money for a Shiloh/CPA/C.Sharps, or have it on order. We run a BPCR range with monthly matches as well as I shoot in numerous other monthly, state, regional, and national matches so I get to see and handle a lot of different and unique guns. Pedersoli's make ok stepping stones, but I would rather just start with a good gun.
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Thanks for that! I’ll have to check that forum out. I can’t discount anything Mr. McDowell says though. But at the same time, I can’t discount any information you provide either. I’m just going to take it all in. I’m sure, even with this being a $2k rifle, it’s nowhere near as nice as what some people have. But hey, that’s ok. This is an ultimate bucket list gun for me.

You guys really don’t know how much I appreciate your insight. Hopefully, I can pay it forward one day.
 
As this gun is a gift to you, accept it and enjoy it.You'll likely find that with grease groove bullets a bullet at .460 diameter will be your best bet. About 10-15 years ago when Pedersoli had a US representative he came up with a bullet that did work well. You might try googling up the Trenk/pedersoli bullet. Not sure anyone makes blocks for it anymore, but there may be a set floating around out there or some of the custom makers like Old West, Brooks or Fred Leeth may have the design for it.
Those rifles can shoot well, when you get a bullet that will fit the throat, but they do need better sights.
If the rifle wasn't a gift, and you were purchasing it out right, a bit of cost comparison would likely take you to Shiloh or C Sharps.
Enjoy your rifle, I'm looking forward to seeing how you get along with it. And how long it takes for you to start planning your next one :)
 
I just purchased the 1874 sharps the Quigly down Under model made by petersoli 2 weeks ago. The craftsmanship is excellent. I had to add the Vernier sights or Creedmore sights and the globe front sight for an additional $400 dollars depending on the sight you choose. Sadly I have not had the chance to shoot it as of yet as it has rained on the days I wanted to shoot it. I have chosen Winchester 300 grain and 405 grain by Remington and will give you a range report by Tuesday at the latest.

wm_7592902.jpg
 
A good gun is where you find it. after owning two c sharp arms and two browning bpcr guns I can say that.
....one c sharps arm chamber was so loose it fouled terribly, brass life sucked, btw never resized it either, (smarter than that), the other had wandering zero problems. both browning triggers suck as the are not true to the originals'. just mediocre in accuracy.
....I now shoot a pedersoli. I happen to get a good one. it fouls less, shoots more accurate, and is metal/wood fit is just fine. dc

ps, you do need a drop tube. a powder compression die. a delrin wiping stick (flexible to clear sights). finally a punch to make card over powder wads.
 
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BigBore44,

IF you PM me with an Email address I've got an article I wrote on loading for BPCRs that was published in "Single Shot Exchange" magazine back in 2002. Some of the stuff and my procedures have changed, but the gist is still the same.

Chuck
 
Chuck R. said:
BigBore44,

IF you PM me with an Email address I've got an article I wrote on loading for BPCRs that was published in "Single Shot Exchange" magazine back in 2002. Some of the stuff and my procedures have changed, but the gist is still the same.

Chuck
Click to expand...
PM sent. Thanks Chuck!
 
I use waxed milk and orange juice cartons to punch out my over powder discs. These rifles are crazy fun to shoot and reload for. Very satisfying range sessions.
 
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